Politics

[Spider]

11 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Not all of them have "earned" those things.

I know.

But the vast majority have. Same with the NHS, a lot of people use it having contributed fuck all to the pot. It rankles a bit, but living in a highly developed society means we just suck it up. There are advantages, in that we are free to work hard and earn good wages if we really want to, so it’s swings and roundabouts.

There are many less privileged than us, people with disabilities for example, who I actually am more than happy to see benefit from the way money is distributed.

If you’re born and raised here, then that’s just the way it is.

But turning up and simply expecting to be given a plethora of unearned benefits is demonstrably bollocks I’m afraid. There will be genuine asylum cases but I’m simply not having it that every person on those boats deserves the handouts.

 

[gonzo]

6 minutes ago, Spider said:

There will be genuine asylum cases but I’m simply not having it that every person on those boats deserves the handouts.

 

I think the bullshit narrative that these folk are from war torn countries trying to escape persecution has set sail a long time ago.

Apart from a few lunatics still in complete denial obviously.

 

[Bertie]

2 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I think the bullshit narrative that these folk are from war torn countries trying to escape persecution has set sail a long time ago.

Apart from a few lunatics still in complete denial obviously.

 

Not saying some folk shouldn’t be assessed/processed and granted asylum in the UK where justified, but what I think a lot of folk overlook is that they are not fleeing a war torn country.  It’s France. 

[Spider]

Just now, gonzo said:

I think the bullshit narrative that these folk are from war torn countries trying to escape persecution has set sail a long time ago.

Apart from a few lunatics still in complete denial obviously.

 

100%

Genuine asylum seekers can apply without having to turn up in Kent anyway.

And if they won’t tell the authorities which country they’re from, then how can they claim to be seeking asylum?

Always happy to help genuine cases, but the rest can go home and argue about their shitty governments on AlShitthadWays

[Cheese]

34 minutes ago, Spider said:

I know.

But the vast majority have. Same with the NHS, a lot of people use it having contributed fuck all to the pot. It rankles a bit, but living in a highly developed society means we just suck it up. There are advantages, in that we are free to work hard and earn good wages if we really want to, so it’s swings and roundabouts.

There are many less privileged than us, people with disabilities for example, who I actually am more than happy to see benefit from the way money is distributed.

If you’re born and raised here, then that’s just the way it is.

But turning up and simply expecting to be given a plethora of unearned benefits is demonstrably bollocks I’m afraid. There will be genuine asylum cases but I’m simply not having it that every person on those boats deserves the handouts.

You're missing my point. I'm not denouncing the things pensioners are given. I'm more than happy for pensioners to get all those benefits. I was questioning @gonzo stating "I don't want anyone being given anything", when what he really meant was "I don't want Asylum seekers/immigrants being given anything".

Edited June 12, 2025 by Cheese

[green genie]

11 hours ago, gonzo said:

Because I wouldn't want a house full of Somalians or Albanians being given a house on my street. 

Would you?

If I sail to France tomorrow should I be given a hotel to live in then a house? 

Where do you sign up to get the Vietnamese instead?

[crawshawbooth]

38 minutes ago, Spider said:

I know.

But the vast majority have. Same with the NHS, a lot of people use it having contributed fuck all to the pot. It rankles a bit, but living in a highly developed society means we just suck it up. There are advantages, in that we are free to work hard and earn good wages if we really want to, so it’s swings and roundabouts.

There are many less privileged than us, people with disabilities for example, who I actually am more than happy to see benefit from the way money is distributed.

If you’re born and raised here, then that’s just the way it is.

But turning up and simply expecting to be given a plethora of unearned benefits is demonstrably bollocks I’m afraid. There will be genuine asylum cases but I’m simply not having it that every person on those boats deserves the handouts.

 

1990 my mrs is carrying our first kid and we go to Bolton Royal for her first scan 

excited new parents , i get her into the waiting room and go to reception, there is a very young woman from the Indian sub continent "pregnant" dont know how far , dumped by relatives off a plane in Manchester that morning.

Staff running about trying to help her , all young white UK English girls

[Cheese]

3 minutes ago, crawshawbooth said:

1990 my mrs is carrying our first kid and we go to Bolton Royal for her first scan 

excited new parents , i get her into the waiting room and go to reception, there is a very young woman from the Indian sub continent "pregnant" dont know how far , dumped by relatives off a plane in Manchester that morning.

Staff running about trying to help her , all young white UK English girls

Doesn't that make you proud of our NHS? Would you rather they'd booted her out onto the street?

[Zico]

55 minutes ago, Cheese said:

You're missing my point. I'm not denouncing the things pensioners are given. I'm more than happy for pensioners to get all those benefits. I was questioning @gonzo stating "I don't want anyone being given anything", when what he really meant was "I don't want Asylum seekers/immigrants being given anything".

I thought that was quite obvious given the topic of conversation 

He wasn't exactly hiding behind his words or being deliberately vague 

Well I knew exactly what he meant anyway

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Zico said:

I thought that was quite obvious given the topic of conversation 

He wasn't exactly hiding behind his words or being deliberately vague 

Well I knew exactly what he meant anyway

Well no, because he mentioned homegrown benefits claimants and said "the welfare state is out of control".

[Zico]

4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Well no, because he mentioned homegrown benefits claimants and said "the welfare state is out of control".

Fair enough if you needed it spelling out

[gonzo]

32 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Well no, because he mentioned homegrown benefits claimants and said "the welfare state is out of control".

Well it isn't it? 

We have enough freeloaders as it is to be allowing more.

We don't have the capacity to cope with the influx.

When we pulled out of Afghanistan, it caused a right old mess. I agreed we should do our bit and take some in. Same with Ukraine.

But now we have boat loads of folk here for a freeman's as part of a giant fucking racket of incentives on either side of the channel for all concerned.

They shouldn't be given fuck all.

I'd tighten up the welfare state too.

You bought pensioners into it to act all Mr Literal like you always do. 

Of course pensioners should receive help if they need it, especially as they've probably paid tax and national insurance all their lives and on the whole contributed. That's not getting free anything. Neither is someone on benefits who has lost their job or is ill.

Asylum seekers get free housing and for me they shouldn't. Nobody landing on these shores should no matter how they arrive, legal or otherwise.

It's really not hard.

[Cheese]

6 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Well it isn't it? 

We have enough freeloaders as it is to be allowing more.

We don't have the capacity to cope with the influx.

When we pulled out of Afghanistan, it caused a right old mess. I agreed we should do our bit and take some in. Same with Ukraine.

But now we have boat loads of folk here for a freeman's as part of a giant fucking racket of incentives on either side of the channel for all concerned.

They shouldn't be given fuck all.

I'd tighten up the welfare state too.

You bought pensioners into it to act all Mr Literal like you always do. 

Of course pensioners should receive help if they need it, especially as they've probably paid tax and national insurance all their lives and on the whole contributed. That's not getting free anything. Neither is someone on benefits who has lost their job or is ill.

Asylum seekers get free housing and for me they shouldn't. Nobody landing on these shores should no matter how they arrive, legal or otherwise.

It's really not hard.

It's all dead easy innit, and could be sorted overnight with one stroke of Nigel's pen.

Edited June 12, 2025 by Cheese

[gonzo]

8 minutes ago, Cheese said:

It's all dead easy innit, and could be sorted overnight with one stroke of Nigel's pen.

I never said it was easy. I wouldn't trust Nigels lot to sort the job out either.

Especially as their idea was to leave the EU to sort the issue which in turn poured fuel on the fire.

It's currently probably the biggest vote winner of all if Labour don't make proper headway in the next few years and really make a statement on it, Big Nigel will be in. Then the shit will really hit the fan. Probably after a shit more riots.

[Cheese]

3 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I never said it was easy. I wouldn't trust Nigels lot to sort the job out either.

Especially as their idea was to leave the EU to sort the issue which in turn poured fuel on the fire.

It's currently probably the biggest vote winner of all if Labour don't make proper headway in the next few years and really make a statement on it, Big Nigel will be in. Then the shit will really hit the fan. Probably after a shit more riots.

In the last election Immigration was 4th on the list of concerns after Cost of Living, NHS, and the economy in general. It only seems such a massive issue because the media are fucking obsessed with Reform and platform Farage/Tice at every opportunity.

[gonzo]

28 minutes ago, Cheese said:

In the last election Immigration was 4th on the list of concerns after Cost of Living, NHS, and the economy in general. It only seems such a massive issue because the media are fucking obsessed with Reform and platform Farage/Tice at every opportunity.

According to who?

[Cheese]

3 minutes ago, gonzo said:

According to who?

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49594-general-election-2024-what-are-the-most-important-issues-for-voters

 

Adapted from our usual ‘most important issues’ tracker, the question asked Britons to choose up to three issues from a list of 16 that will be the most important in deciding who to vote for.

The cost of living tops the list, with 45% of Britons saying it is one of the most important issues in deciding their vote. Health comes in a distant second, on 34%, followed closely by ‘the economy in general’ on 32%, and then immigration in fourth on 26%.

Edited June 12, 2025 by Cheese

[gonzo]

Ah those old trustworthy barometers of public opinion yougov polls eh

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Ah those old trustworthy barometers of public opinion yougov polls eh

Well they were pretty accurate regarding the outcome of the General Election.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49968-how-yougovs-seat-and-vote-projections-fared-at-the-2024-uk-general-election

[kent_white]

I'll be honest - I think immigration is by far and away the biggest issue of the day - certainly amongst the people I speak to. But most of my friends are white, working class men, so maybe their not a representative sample. 

I think many of my friends just expected Labour to wave a magic wand and the problem would go away. It's a complicated systemic issue - with hundreds of moving parts. It's going to take time to get right. If it's a problem that can be solved at all. 

[gonzo]

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

Well they were pretty accurate regarding the outcome of the General Election.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49968-how-yougovs-seat-and-vote-projections-fared-at-the-2024-uk-general-election

You think the recent uprising for reform and brexit has immigration as 5th in the list of reasons?...

[Cheese]

Just now, gonzo said:

You think the recent uprising for reform and brexit has immigration as 5th in the list of reasons?...

No idea.

[Zico]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49594-general-election-2024-what-are-the-most-important-issues-for-voters

 

Adapted from our usual ‘most important issues’ tracker, the question asked Britons to choose up to three issues from a list of 16 that will be the most important in deciding who to vote for.

The cost of living tops the list, with 45% of Britons saying it is one of the most important issues in deciding their vote. Health comes in a distant second, on 34%, followed closely by ‘the economy in general’ on 32%, and then immigration in fourth on 26%.

26% is still a lot and it's why Labour are making noise about tackling it, smash the gangs and this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgzprn1vjo

I'm not sure what the arguement is

it's an issue, folk aren't happy about it, it's become a big issue because the last government let it become one by doing nothing, the new government know this and are looking to tackle it

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Zico said:

26% is still a lot and it's why Labour are making noice about tackling it, smash the gangs and this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgzprn1vjo

I'm not sure what the arguement is

it's an issue, folk aren't happy about it, it's become a big issue because the last government let it become one by doing nothing, the new government know this and are looking to tackle it

You don't need to be sure of the argument, just have the argument.

[Zico]

5 minutes ago, Cheese said:

You don't need to be sure of the argument, just have the argument.

that's your mantra isn't it