Politics

[Spider]

Just now, Traf said:

Like a tea-towel holder

Like the middle of the countdown clock

[Traf]

5 minutes ago, Spider said:

Like the middle of the countdown clock

2 from the top and 4 from the bottom...

[only1swanny]

2 hours ago, kent_white said:

Reform think that some of it's human rights protections affect border control and deportations. 

This is despite the fact that under ECHR all member states are free to set their own immigration policy and it isn't dictated centrally. ECHR also doesn't give people the right to stay in a country where they are not a national and/or claiming asylum. Wanting to 'leave the ECHR'. The problem isn't and has never been the ECHR - it's about how our courts have sometimes interpreted it.

If we pull out, we will will be the third country to leave after Greece (who temporarily did during the military dictatorship) and Russia (who were booted out in 2022). Which should give some idea about our direction of travel.

And ECHR is about far more than just immigration anyway (something that people conveniently forget -or just never knew in the first place). For example - it was used in the Hillsborough cases and at places like Stafford Hospital when there was the scandal over card standards. Basically it protects you as a British Citizen from things like abuse, arbitrary detention, unfair trials and more. 

Leaving the ECHR would have huge implications for us as a country, not least in Northern Ireland (the Good Friday Agreement requires NI to be part of ECHR - so that's a huge issue). We'd also likely receive less support than we currently do from the EU on joint intelligence around immigration issues (which could well make the problem worse). We'd be the first (real) democracy to leave and out international reputation would nose die amongst our peers (think Trump pulling out of the Paris Climate Agreements etc). There's also some complicated stuff that I don't understand properly around data sharing with the EU that is bound up with membership of the ECHR which prevent free data flow between the EU and the UK and impact businesses. 

Plus - you would lose all the rights discussed earlier in the piece. 

Plus it wouldn't ACTUALLY do ANYTHING to stop small boats. 

Apart from that. It's a cracking idea, that's been well thought through and wouldn't have any negative impacts whatsoever. 

Leaving the ECHR is a badge of ideology for people who want to show they are 'anti immigration'. And incidentally the same visionaries who assured us Brexit would lead to a huge reduction in immigration 👍

thought I had missed something that's caused huge issues..

nope, just another "thing"

[kent_white]

2 minutes ago, only1swanny said:

thought I had missed something that's caused huge issues..

nope, just another "thing"

Pretty much. 

But it's an easy scapegoat for a complex problem - and it's highly unlikely most people who vote Reform are going to read about the complexities of it. Or care. 

That's not to say it doesn't sometimes act as a barrier - but like my original post, it's more about the ways our courts interpret it as opposed to what we actually signed up to. 

The right thing to do would be to affect the way our courts make the decisions, as opposed to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.