Is it kicking off big time or is this just everyday stuff they deal with or a bit of both?

 

37 minutes ago, Zico said:

As I suspected 

 

I think this might be one of these quotes that has entered the public consciousness and is attributed to loads of different people. But without any original source......

22 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I think this might be one of these quotes that has entered the public consciousness and is attributed to loads of different people. But without any original source......

 

5 minutes ago, Zico said:

 

😂

 

52 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Crikey 🙄

Nah, youre not still shocked by him

Not having it

1 hour ago, frank_spencer said:

It's the holy land of all Abrahamic religions TBF.

Correct

For Jews its the ancestral homeland. They have no other. Its their one and only Holy land.

For Muslims it's Mecca and Medina 1st & 2nd. (They pray towards Mecca)

Interesting stuff but all bonkers really. 

1 hour ago, London Wanderer said:

You are to be fair mate

👍🏻

1 hour ago, Zico said:

As I suspected 

 

Did you find that on the Internet?

Edited September 17, 2025Sep 17 by wanderer1984

11 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

Did you find that on the Internet?

Yep

You said it was a quote and I should feel free to search it

So I did

Came up #1

 

20 minutes ago, Zico said:

Yep

You said it was a quote and I should feel free to search it

So I did

Came up #1

 

Nice one 

14 hours ago, kent_white said:

You're right that conspiracy theories very rarely have much substance behind them! 😁

Stop promoting them then.

13 hours ago, wanderer1984 said:

Can you show me where I've backed what's happened to innocent civilians?

Can he fuck. Lad's a loon.

13 hours ago, wanderer1984 said:

You made the statement ... so show me.

Flipped from 'backed' to 'condemned'. No surprise is it. Their 'side' all do it as soon as any pressure is applied. 

13 hours ago, Zico said:

There's nothing you've posted that justifies what Israel are doing now, or that means you can just dismiss it as just one of those things that happens in war 

Like you can't dismiss what Russia are currently doing in Ukraine because it used to be part of the USSR

I'm sure you could find something to justify Russia's action if you were that way inclined 

It's not for me though 

There are no good guys in the current Israel v Hamas war 

He doesn't have to justify anything. It's not him doing anything at all in Gaza.

Very simple equation for me. The terrorists have been attacking Israel for decades. October 7th was the last straw. Hamas must be totally eliminated whatever the cost. Before the bleeding heart liberals start, yes, I did say 'whatever the cost'. No option when facing a clear existential threat.

13 hours ago, wanderer1984 said:

Ok Cheese 

Another thing they always resort to. 'Stupid'. Straight out of the NIC handbook. These lefty new puritans all think that only they are correct. It's what brought you Brexit, Donald Trump and the rise of Reform.

Only the 'stupid' would keep contributing to the outcomes they least desire.

12 hours ago, wanderer1984 said:

I think it's true 

It absolutely is. Only an idiot would try to dispute this.

They will be along in a minute.

12 hours ago, Zico said:

Even after reading all those links you've posted about conflicts over the last 2000 years? 

I'm not convinced

 

FFS 

26 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Can he fuck. Lad's a loon.

Still waiting

Just now, wanderer1984 said:

Still waiting

Quelle surprise.

30 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

He doesn't have to justify anything. It's not him doing anything at all in Gaza.

Very simple equation for me. The terrorists have been attacking Israel for decades. October 7th was the last straw. Hamas must be totally eliminated whatever the cost. Before the bleeding heart liberals start, yes, I did say 'whatever the cost'. No option when facing a clear existential threat.

“whatever the cost” 🙄.

Can you confirm therefore that if the last Hamas minion was sheltering behind the remaining 2 million Palestinians you would feel it was perfectly proportionate to slaughter them all to “eliminate” him?

Just want to make sure we’re all really clear where you stand.

Edited September 18, 2025Sep 18 by Bertie

On 16/09/2025 at 22:28, royal white said:

Urban wars 

Easier for me to copy and paste. 
 

Question asked. Civilian to combatant death rate in urban warfare (as I know people will want to know what I asked) 

 

 

Historical & Recent Examples

 

 

1. World War II (Battle of Manila, 1945)
   • Civilians massively outnumbered combatant deaths, often estimated at 10:1 or more.
2.  
3. Battle of Grozny (Chechnya, 1990s–2000s)
   • Civilian deaths were extremely high; some estimates put them at 80–90% of total fatalities.
4.  
5. Iraq – Battle of Mosul (2016–2017)
   • Estimates suggest 9,000–11,000 civilians killed, compared to a few thousand ISIS fighters.
   • Civilian-to-combatant ratio estimated at at least 3:1, possibly much higher.
6.  
7. Syria (Aleppo, 2012–2016)
   • UN and human rights groups reported civilians making up 70–80% of casualties, a ~3:1 ratio.
8.  
9. Gaza (2023–2025 war)
   • UN OCHA reports suggest ~70–75% of identified fatalities are civilians.
   • That translates to about 3:1 civilians to combatants, though exact ratios are disputed.
10.  

 

 

 

 

 

⚖️ Factors That Drive the Ratio Higher

 

 

• Population density (civilians cannot leave easily).
• Heavy explosive use (airstrikes, artillery).
• Human shields / fighters blending with civilians.
• Limited evacuation routes or blockades.
• Attacks on infrastructure (hospitals, water, electricity), which also cause indirect civilian deaths.

 

 

 

 

✅ Summary:

In modern urban warfare, civilians usually make up the majority of casualties. Ratios commonly range from 3:1 to 9:1 (civilians : combatants), and in some battles (e.g. Grozny, Manila, Aleppo) civilians accounted for over 80–90% of the dead.

 

Interesting list that, because I asked if any of those were considered genocide, war crimes or ethnic cleansing and got told the below

so it looks like Israel are in good company 

 

Good question. The short answer is: yes, many of those conflicts have been investigated or described in terms of war crimes, crimes against humanity, or even ethnic cleansing — though the exact legal label often depends on who’s describing it. Let me break down the examples you listed:

---

World War II – Battle of Manila (1945)

• The Japanese forces committed mass killings, sexual violence, and deliberate destruction.

• Around 100,000 civilians were killed, mostly non-combatants.

• The atrocities are widely considered war crimes and crimes against humanity.

 

Chechnya – Battle of Grozny (1990s–2000s)

• Russian forces used heavy bombardments in densely populated areas.

• Civilians made up the majority of casualties, with widespread reports of massacres, “filtration camps,” and disappearances.

• International human rights groups and some scholars described this as war crimes and “ethnic cleansing,” though Russia was never formally charged with genocide.

 

Iraq – Battle of Mosul (2016–2017)

• Civilian casualties were extremely high due to coalition airstrikes, ISIS using human shields, and urban combat.

• Amnesty International and UN investigators accused both ISIS and coalition/Iraqi forces of committing war crimes (ISIS for executions, slavery, human shields; Iraqi/coalition for indiscriminate attacks).

• Not usually labelled “genocide” in Mosul itself, but ISIS’s campaign against Yazidis in Iraq was declared a genocide by the UN.

 

Syria – Aleppo (2012–2016)

• Both Assad’s forces (with Russian support) and rebel groups committed atrocities.

• UN reports concluded widespread war crimes, including deliberate targeting of hospitals, starvation sieges, and indiscriminate bombing.

• Civilian casualties outnumbered combatant deaths, as you noted.

---

⚖️ Key distinction:

• Genocide = intent to destroy a people (e.g. Holocaust, Rwanda, Yazidis by ISIS).

• Ethnic cleansing = forced removal of a population, often by killing, terror, or displacement (e.g. Bosnia, Chechnya by some accounts).

• War crimes = violations of international humanitarian law (e.g. targeting civilians, disproportionate attacks).

• Crimes against humanity = systematic attacks on civilians (can overlap with the above).

 

So — yes, most of your examples were described as war crimes and sometimes ethnic cleansing, but only some (like ISIS vs Yazidis, Nazi massacres) crossed into legally defined genocide.
 

---

Israel–Palestine (1948–Present)

• 1948 Nakba (“Catastrophe”): ~750,000 Palestinians displaced, over 400 villages destroyed or depopulated. Many scholars and UN bodies describe this as ethnic cleansing.
   

• 1967 War & Aftermath: Israel occupied West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem. Continued settlement expansion and displacement violate international law; UN and human rights groups call them illegal occupation and war crimes.
   

• Gaza Conflicts (2008, 2014, 2021, 2023–):

  • Israel accused by Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, and UN of war crimes for collective punishment, disproportionate bombing, and targeting civilian infrastructure.

  • Hamas accused of war crimes for indiscriminate rocket attacks and killing civilians.
     

• 2023–2024 Gaza War: UN experts, Amnesty, HRW, and South Africa’s case at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) argue Israel’s actions may constitute genocide (deliberate destruction of Palestinian life in Gaza).

  • ICJ has not ruled definitively, but it ordered Israel to prevent genocidal acts — showing the claim is taken seriously under international law.

---

 

• Just like Manila, Grozny, Mosul, and Aleppo, the majority of victims in Israel–Palestine are civilians.

• Both Israel and Hamas have been accused of war crimes.

• What makes Israel–Palestine especially contentious is the long pattern since 1948: shrinking Palestinian land, forced displacement, and occupation — which many legal scholars frame as ethnic cleansing.

 

it's dead good AI isn't it

12 minutes ago, Zico said:

 

Interesting list that, because I asked if any of those were considered genocide, war crimes or ethnic cleansing and got told the below

so it looks like Israel are in good company 

 

Good question. The short answer is: yes, many of those conflicts have been investigated or described in terms of war crimes, crimes against humanity, or even ethnic cleansing — though the exact legal label often depends on who’s describing it. Let me break down the examples you listed:

---

World War II – Battle of Manila (1945)

• The Japanese forces committed mass killings, sexual violence, and deliberate destruction.

• Around 100,000 civilians were killed, mostly non-combatants.

• The atrocities are widely considered war crimes and crimes against humanity.

 

Chechnya – Battle of Grozny (1990s–2000s)

• Russian forces used heavy bombardments in densely populated areas.

• Civilians made up the majority of casualties, with widespread reports of massacres, “filtration camps,” and disappearances.

• International human rights groups and some scholars described this as war crimes and “ethnic cleansing,” though Russia was never formally charged with genocide.

 

Iraq – Battle of Mosul (2016–2017)

• Civilian casualties were extremely high due to coalition airstrikes, ISIS using human shields, and urban combat.

• Amnesty International and UN investigators accused both ISIS and coalition/Iraqi forces of committing war crimes (ISIS for executions, slavery, human shields; Iraqi/coalition for indiscriminate attacks).

• Not usually labelled “genocide” in Mosul itself, but ISIS’s campaign against Yazidis in Iraq was declared a genocide by the UN.

 

Syria – Aleppo (2012–2016)

• Both Assad’s forces (with Russian support) and rebel groups committed atrocities.

• UN reports concluded widespread war crimes, including deliberate targeting of hospitals, starvation sieges, and indiscriminate bombing.

• Civilian casualties outnumbered combatant deaths, as you noted.

---

⚖️ Key distinction:

• Genocide = intent to destroy a people (e.g. Holocaust, Rwanda, Yazidis by ISIS).

• Ethnic cleansing = forced removal of a population, often by killing, terror, or displacement (e.g. Bosnia, Chechnya by some accounts).

• War crimes = violations of international humanitarian law (e.g. targeting civilians, disproportionate attacks).

• Crimes against humanity = systematic attacks on civilians (can overlap with the above).

 

So — yes, most of your examples were described as war crimes and sometimes ethnic cleansing, but only some (like ISIS vs Yazidis, Nazi massacres) crossed into legally defined genocide.
 

---

Israel–Palestine (1948–Present)

• 1948 Nakba (“Catastrophe”): ~750,000 Palestinians displaced, over 400 villages destroyed or depopulated. Many scholars and UN bodies describe this as ethnic cleansing.
   

• 1967 War & Aftermath: Israel occupied West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem. Continued settlement expansion and displacement violate international law; UN and human rights groups call them illegal occupation and war crimes.
   

• Gaza Conflicts (2008, 2014, 2021, 2023–):

  • Israel accused by Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, and UN of war crimes for collective punishment, disproportionate bombing, and targeting civilian infrastructure.

  • Hamas accused of war crimes for indiscriminate rocket attacks and killing civilians.
     

• 2023–2024 Gaza War: UN experts, Amnesty, HRW, and South Africa’s case at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) argue Israel’s actions may constitute genocide (deliberate destruction of Palestinian life in Gaza).

  • ICJ has not ruled definitively, but it ordered Israel to prevent genocidal acts — showing the claim is taken seriously under international law.

---

 

• Just like Manila, Grozny, Mosul, and Aleppo, the majority of victims in Israel–Palestine are civilians.

• Both Israel and Hamas have been accused of war crimes.

• What makes Israel–Palestine especially contentious is the long pattern since 1948: shrinking Palestinian land, forced displacement, and occupation — which many legal scholars frame as ethnic cleansing.

 

it's dead good AI isn't it

War crimes committed by Isreal is old news though? 

1 minute ago, royal white said:

War crimes committed by Isreal is old news though? 

as long as that is acknowledged aye

just think you need to tweak your stance, when talking about palestinian civilan deaths, from "these things happen during war" to "these things happen when war crimes are being committed"

it's not something that should be expected from a war, but, invariably, genocide, ethnic cleansing and war crimes will get commited, as we're seeing in Gaza

Just now, Zico said:

as long as that is acknowledged aye

just think you need to tweak your stance, when talking about palestinian civilan deaths, from "these things happen during war" to "these things happen when war crimes are being committed"

it's not something that should be expected from a war, but, invariably, genocide, ethnic cleansing and war crimes will get commited, as we're seeing in Gaza

Well The list clearly shows that these things happen in war, even more so urban war and even more so when you fight a terror group hiding behind civilians. 

Just now, royal white said:

Well The list clearly shows that these things happen in war, even more so urban war and even more so when you fight a terror group hiding behind civilians. 

yep, war crimes, genocide and ethnic cleansing sometimes get commited in war, not always, but sometimes

we agree, I think