1 minute ago, deeane Koontz said:

It's not that bad, we've had players trying to run off ruptured ACLs before

... & fractured vertebrae.

Hardly Bert Trautmann stuff though.

Edited Saturday at 11:142 days by Dr. Feelgood

1 minute ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

... & fractured vertebrae.

Forgot about that one 🤣

12 hours ago, Traf said:

4-6 weeks

If this is true, then it'd be 3-5 weeks now

4 hours ago, desperado said:

And some folk were questioning why we were making sub changes at the back.

He should have come off much sooner.

It's not the subs per se, but the impact they sometimes have.

Sometimes great, sometimes not so, and a team can lose its way.

If there is an injury, and someone has to be replaced, I would imagine it better to see how the sub settles in, and make further subs accordingly.

Not uncommon now for teams to use loads of subs, and in a fairly regular way- IE.

3 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

I know & agree, but ...

"Each team is allowed three separate 'windows' during normal time to make up to five substitutions".

what does that even mean

13 minutes ago, Zico said:

what does that even mean

That, though you can substitute 5 players, you can only do it in a maximum of 3 events.

You can sub all 5 at once if you wish, but you can't bring one on 5 times.

It's been the way since it became 5 subs. I guess it's to reduce the time wasted by substitutions.

7 minutes ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

That, though you can substitute 5 players, you can only do it in a maximum of 3 events.

You can sub all 5 at once if you wish, but you can't bring one on 5 times.

It's been the way since it became 5 subs. I guess it's to reduce the time wasted by substitutions.

ok, I wasn't even aware that was a thing

1 hour ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

That, though you can substitute 5 players, you can only do it in a maximum of 3 events.

You can sub all 5 at once if you wish, but you can't bring one on 5 times.

It's been the way since it became 5 subs. I guess it's to reduce the time wasted by substitutions.

Yep, it has.

I'm quite surprised that so many didn't seem aware of this.

3 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Yep, it has.

I'm quite surprised that so many didn't seem aware of this.

That's the first I've heard of it. Must admit I had noticed us and other teams bringing 2 subs on together in nearly every game but had put it down to SS way of doing things. How long has it been in place?

1 hour ago, Alf Hartigan said:

That's the first I've heard of it. Must admit I had noticed us and other teams bringing 2 subs on together in nearly every game but had put it down to SS way of doing things. How long has it been in place?

Since 5 subs (iirc).

1 hour ago, Alf Hartigan said:

That's the first I've heard of it. Must admit I had noticed us and other teams bringing 2 subs on together in nearly every game but had put it down to SS way of doing things. How long has it been in place?

Was used in the restart after covid and then permanently from 2022-23 season.

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Since 5 subs (iirc).

I don't even know when that came in 🤷

10 hours ago, desperado said:

Yes it is.

Especially when it happened the week before with Rodrigues.

I temper the criticism with the approach I generally take, in that we don’t know the full picture, they are the ones with all the data and information etc. And you can’t always take everyone off who goes down with an “injury” - always more difficult too when it’s a player you rely on and is having a great game.

But yes it looked bad when he went down, waving his arms about, I’d have had him off then. But who am I 😊

A couple of (respectful) points on that.

1. I feel like the subs are a bit choreographed sometimes, decided pre-match. Hardy will replace McAtee after 70 minutes, Gale replaced by Dong or Junior. It maybe doesn't allow for the flexibility of getting an unexpected injury, it takes them by surprise as its not part of the script, but if most of us were managers we'd be taking off anyone that can't play at 100% and/or might make an injury worse.

2. Just a personal opinion but really, all that about the data and stats, its a game of football for 90 minutes once a week, just play the game that's in front of you! If they're nackered after it, rest them the week after (they won't be).

3. Re "who am I", we shouldn't hold managers in too high an esteem, they would admit to making mistakes. We would have made a better decision than Roy Hodgson asking Kane to take corners, Tuchel 10 man defence v Argies, various Evatt tactics/buying Randall for £1mil/Dan for £300k. We are entitled to our opinions and some are valid, we watch every game.

Definitely seem pre-determined these subs.

I supppse the odd one there is EE, having had no pre-season

10 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

A couple of (respectful) points on that.

1. I feel like the subs are a bit choreographed sometimes, decided pre-match. Hardy will replace McAtee after 70 minutes, Gale replaced by Dong or Junior. It maybe doesn't allow for the flexibility of getting an unexpected injury, it takes them by surprise as its not part of the script, but if most of us were managers we'd be taking off anyone that can't play at 100% and/or might make an injury worse.

2. Just a personal opinion but really, all that about the data and stats, its a game of football for 90 minutes once a week, just play the game that's in front of you! If they're nackered after it, rest them the week after (they won't be).

3. Re "who am I", we shouldn't hold managers in too high an esteem, they would admit to making mistakes. We would have made a better decision than Roy Hodgson asking Kane to take corners, Tuchel 10 man defence v Argies, various Evatt tactics/buying Randall for £1mil/Dan for £300k. We are entitled to our opinions and some are valid, we watch every game.

3 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Definitely seem pre-determined these subs.

I supppse the odd one there is EE, having had no pre-season

I think the EE is a good example that SS is very much seeing what’s in front of him, alongside “semi pre-planned” subs.

And I think there is room for both, as well as looking at stats/data.

I’m pretty sure last week EE would have been part of his plan to bring him off - but it was the right decision to keep him on in the end.

Fine line too over gambling to keep players on. Didn’t work well with Rodrigues and Stephenson, hopefully it will with Famewo. And maybe he’s made a different decision yesterday after what has happened the previous 2 weeks.

But having semi pre planned ideas to change things up is fine in my mind. Conversations between his coaching staff along the lines of; let’s give Macca a 60 min run, let’s look at putting Hardie on for the last 20, we’ve got the option to get the new lads on wide to give us more energy. Bringing Dalby and Macca on at Wembley was planned too.

But these aren’t set in stone, there’s of course the flexibility to do things differently and manage the game based on how it’s playing out which I think SS does well, in the main.

Pre-planned subs are a No, then another No to go with the final no.

Its only two seasons back Charles hit a first half hat trick then was taken off after 60 mins......Dropped for the next game because Evatt was taking it in turns to play his forwards.

Some days players are on it and running the game others they are not in the game. You cannot have pre planned subs it is something i do not get my head around the same as not leaving Gale or Mcatee on the half way line at corners

2 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

Pre-planned subs are a No, then another No to go with the final no.

Its only two seasons back Charles hit a first half hat trick then was taken off after 60 mins......Dropped for the next game because Evatt was taking it in turns to play his forwards.

Some days players are on it and running the game others they are not in the game. You cannot have pre planned subs it is something i do not get my head around the same as not leaving Gale or Mcatee on the half way line at corners

Agreed fully, but it's the current way.

I doubt many forwards expect to stay on more than 60 or so minutes. I'd have hated that, but then again we only had 1 sub in that dim & distant past

I definitely agree with picking those on form & leaving them on if still playing ok & not drained. But those days have gone.

Edited Sunday at 10:111 day by Dr. Feelgood

1 hour ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Agreed fully, but it's the current way.

I doubt many forwards expect to stay on more than 60 or so minutes. I'd have hated that, but then again we only had 1 sub in that dim & distant past

I definitely agree with picking those on form & leaving them on if still playing ok & not drained. But those days have gone.

I may and its a big may get it at the back end of a season when it is Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday every week, but most players are just finding match fitness and are well capable of playing 90+ mins each week......Erhahon i could understand for the next week or so.....Substitutions should all depend how the game is going

Not seeing it so much with SS.....Evatt was doing it every game

On 22/08/2026 at 15:40, Dr. Feelgood said:

That, though you can substitute 5 players, you can only do it in a maximum of 3 events.

You can sub all 5 at once if you wish, but you can't bring one on 5 times.

It's been the way since it became 5 subs. I guess it's to reduce the time wasted by substitutions.

Also , subs at half time dont count as using up one of the "windows"

12 minutes ago, Krimzon said:

Also , subs at half time dont count as using up one of the "windows"

You learn something new every day! Didn't know that - explains a lot.

10 hours ago, masi 51 said:

Pre-planned subs are a No, then another No to go with the final no.

Its only two seasons back Charles hit a first half hat trick then was taken off after 60 mins......Dropped for the next game because Evatt was taking it in turns to play his forwards.

Some days players are on it and running the game others they are not in the game. You cannot have pre planned subs it is something i do not get my head around the same as not leaving Gale or Mcatee on the half way line at corners

That’s why I said “semi pre planned” 😊

Which gives the option to change and alter what you are doing.

11 hours ago, masi 51 said:

Pre-planned subs are a No, then another No to go with the final no.

Its only two seasons back Charles hit a first half hat trick then was taken off after 60 mins......Dropped for the next game because Evatt was taking it in turns to play his forwards.

Some days players are on it and running the game others they are not in the game. You cannot have pre planned subs it is something i do not get my head around the same as not leaving Gale or Mcatee on the half way line at corners

Nobody's ever convincing me the professionals know better than fans on this! Not just Bolton obviously, they all do it and it just invites pressure.

That 2nd goal v PNE - McAtee and Gale at their best - simply doesn't happen if we'd been defending a corner instead of a move from open play, they would have been on the 6 yard box instead of near the halfway line.

For some reason if its a corner we have to defend with 11 men, but if its open play we're happy to defend with 6 or 7 back.

7 hours ago, desperado said:

That’s why I said “semi pre planned” 😊

Which gives the option to change and alter what you are doing.

No semi pre-planned you either do or dont. Sorry but you cannot say a player is only going to be effective for 49mins the science is not that advanced.

And if it was i would be asking why can a player only operate for a certain time.

To say that is the way now does not mean it is right.....Just the same as bringing Gale and Mcatee back for corners when they are actually awful at defending but if they went to the half way line they bring three defenders back with them.......Yet that is another it is the way now

19 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

No semi pre-planned you either do or dont. Sorry but you cannot say a player is only going to be effective for 49mins the science is not that advanced.

And if it was i would be asking why can a player only operate for a certain time.

To say that is the way now does not mean it is right.....Just the same as bringing Gale and Mcatee back for corners when they are actually awful at defending but if they went to the half way line they bring three defenders back with them.......Yet that is another it is the way now

Thought my initial post to @Johnnyrotten covered this? Think most people can see this, including Johnny himself.

It’s not a case of either you do or don’t with SS because the proof is very much in the pudding even as recent as the last few months/weeks

We’ve seen the semi-planned subs work to very good effect (bringing Dalby and Mcatee on at Wembley). And we’ve seen him alternate away from the semi-planned subs because of how the game is playing out. (Erhahon)

8 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Nobody's ever convincing me the professionals know better than fans on this! Not just Bolton obviously, they all do it and it just invites pressure.

That 2nd goal v PNE - McAtee and Gale at their best - simply doesn't happen if we'd been defending a corner instead of a move from open play, they would have been on the 6 yard box instead of near the halfway line.

For some reason if its a corner we have to defend with 11 men, but if its open play we're happy to defend with 6 or 7 back.

Sorry but if you think the fans really know as much about this as the professionals the fact quite a few of our fans on this thread did not know about the substitution ’ window’ pretty much blows this apart.

On the pre planned subs these happen as over 90 minutes fatigue sets in and bringing on fresh legs for those positions where most running is required is common sense. So McAtee for instance knows he might get 60 minutes so can run harder for those 60 minutes than he would if he thought he was playing for 90. Of course he could last 90 minutes but if we have fresh legs why not use them ( unless the alternative is totally shit). To highlight the point the 400m world record is 43 seconds, the 4x100m world record is 38.6 seconds. Fresh legs make a difference.

The management team have live data on players and watch them all week in training so know when a players levels are dropping off. Pre plannned is not simply taking a player off at the same time every week it is also the planning with the players that will very likely be coming off so they manage their levels in game. The data also highlights where fatigue is likely to lead injury (rather than impact injuries for Stephenson and RR)

Personally hate us having 11 back for corners. The logic is more players back denies the attacking team space but it also means any clearances just come straight back. So why not leave Gale up front ? The flip side is that Gale is hardly going to hold a ball up so invariably it comes back anyway. Last year one team v Arsenal were leaving 2 or 3 upfront to counter Arsenals success on set pieces. (Can not remember who but it was a Sky game)

Quite a long response and not all aimed specifically at you, but I am very much in the @desperado camp in that pre planned subs are a sensible part of how a team manages a squad of players over 90 minutes if you have 16 players you can use it would seem daft to only plan around the first 11. But some flexibility.

Final point on the fans know best look at play semi at Bradford I was shouting at the telly when he bought Simons and Mcatee on for EE and Burstow as like for like subs when I thought we needed to shore things up, then those 2 combined with the other sub Gale for the goal. SS attitude was that we just needed to execute better so fresh legs made that happen. Even I am not right all the time 🤣🤣😎😉