Jayjay23 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 At the start of the season who would have thought that Dapo, Santos, Jones, John, Iredale, Sadlier and Bakayoko would all be struggling to get in the side? I think it shows in real time how quickly we are progressing. The aim is clearly promotion and we are right to offload players who wouldn't be top performers at Championship level. Plug the gaps with good loans, get promoted and then fill the loan gaps with better quality. If we get promoted I think we stand a chance of getting Bradley for another season and Trafford on a perm... Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted January 17, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) Not a chance in hell we're getting Trafford on a permanent contract, even if we do get promoted. Edited January 17, 2023 by Cheese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 17, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2023 Iredale hasn't struggled to get in- he's generally been the man for his position- he's crocked now though! John, by virtue of Iredale's arrival, wasn't likely to be first choice. Baka and Sadlier also not likely to be regulars. I also think that without injury Santos and Jones would be in now. However, it just shows what can happen with a good squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrycowdrill Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 If someone had of said 6 weeks or so ago both the captain and vice couldn’t get a game and we’re unbeaten in 8 conceding a couple you’d of thought they were a moon man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayjay23 Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share Posted January 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Iredale hasn't struggled to get in- he's generally been the man for his position- he's crocked now though! John, by virtue of Iredale's arrival, wasn't likely to be first choice. Baka and Sadlier also not likely to be regulars. I also think that without injury Santos and Jones would be in now. However, it just shows what can happen with a good squad. Ouch. Way to tear me apart! Haha. OK yeah. Fair points. Although, at the time, I thought if it wasn't Iredale it would be John and, to be honest, even if Iredale was fit I would pick a fully fit Williams over him. I also thought Sadlier would get a lot more match time than he has, and Bakayoko's form at the end of last season made me think he was going to be a 20 goals man as opposed to the odd appearance here and there. I didn't think we could afford to lose all of them and still be expecting to win matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantra Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Evatts kind of stumbled across his most balance starting XI now. Love Santos and Jones. But think Toal and Aimson are having superior seasons since coming in, for whatever reason. Santos is such a great player physically and technically but he does ponder on the ball too much at times and has made a couple of costly mistakes this season. That back pass vs sheff, getting sent off at Vale, even his defending for the first goal away at Plymouth. Aimson is a great defender and keeps it very simple and as a result our build up play is quicker with him in the centre of a back 3. Jones is always consistent to be fair but Toals performances make him undroppable at the moment. Sadlier is this seasons Riga. Looks lively coming off the bench but whenever he’s started I’ve not seen him perform to a better standard than the starters before him. Dno what’s gone on with John but he was always defensively suspect even if he was a good attacker. Randell Williams seems to have a good blend of the qualities that both John and Iredale bring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 17, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2023 22 minutes ago, Jayjay23 said: Ouch. Way to tear me apart! Haha. OK yeah. Fair points. Although, at the time, I thought if it wasn't Iredale it would be John and, to be honest, even if Iredale was fit I would pick a fully fit Williams over him. I also thought Sadlier would get a lot more match time than he has, and Bakayoko's form at the end of last season made me think he was going to be a 20 goals man as opposed to the odd appearance here and there. I didn't think we could afford to lose all of them and still be expecting to win matches. 😁 I hoped both Baka and Sadlier would nail down places- the former did indeed bag a few last season. He's not had a very long run this time, but not looked great when he did get a go. Sadlier just not had much of a go, and I don't see that changing. Not a massive surprise neither as, like Dapo, I just don't think Evatt can find a way to use them in their best position. As for John, don't forget about Beck coming in too- his number has been up for a while. A shame as I think he's OK as a wing back, but again I'm not sure Evatt has been happy with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traf Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: 😁 As for John, don't forget about Beck coming in too- his number has been up for a while. A shame as I think he's OK as a wing back, but again I'm not sure Evatt has been happy with him. The signing of Williams says Beck isn't really in Evatt's plans either. Williams & Iredale fighting over a shirt. Beck & John out in the cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DirtySanchez Posted January 17, 2023 Members Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: 😁 Sadlier just not had much of a go, and I don't see that changing. Not a massive surprise neither as, like Dapo, I just don't think Evatt can find a way to use them in their best position. Which makes it odd why we gave Sadlier a three year contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevowanderer Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 18 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said: Which makes it odd why we gave Sadlier a three year contract Sadlier was a 2 and a half year deal last Jan. Pretty standard for someone we have paid a fee for. Wouldn’t expect us to pay a fee (even a nominal one) and give someone an 18 month deal. We’ll get a fee for moving him on again if he leaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DirtySanchez Posted January 17, 2023 Members Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, Stevowanderer said: Sadlier was a 2 and a half year deal last Jan. Pretty standard for someone we have paid a fee for. Wouldn’t expect us to pay a fee (even a nominal one) and give someone an 18 month deal. We’ll get a fee for moving him on again if he leaves. Why buy him when you don't know where to play him? Its not like he hasn't played at this level to know his best position A loan maybe, see where he fits in But he's on a contract till we can sell him So that's wages and a squad place taken up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevowanderer Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said: Why buy him when you don't know where to play him? Its not like he hasn't played at this level to know his best position A loan maybe, see where he fits in But he's on a contract till we can sell him So that's wages and a squad place taken up At the time we were jumping between the 4 at the back and the 5. We’d spent most of the first half of the season with a 4 atb and 2 wingers and I think Evatt wanted him for that versatility. Wing back, wing, number 10. Pretty sure he’s played as an 8 too. He was brought in because of that imo. I also think it probably is just one of the cases where it hasn’t completely worked out. He scored and assisted at important times over the last 12 months especially in the pizza cup this season so he could be a big reason we end up at Wembley. Not every transfer that comes in will be a huge success and I don’t agree it’s just a wage/squad place used up. You need a squad and you need the odd player that can play multiple positions to cover injuries. He probably would have been more of a success as an individual if we had stuck with a 4atb (like Dapo in some respects). But we function better as a unit in this system… much more solid defensively. We’ve just missed too many chances this season at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 17, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2023 Yep. Simply, not every player you bring in works out as initially intended. As a squad player, I'd say he's been invaluable and has contributed well with late recoveries etc. Irrespective of whether he goes or not, there will always be the need for squad players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted January 17, 2023 Moderators Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Traf said: The signing of Williams says Beck isn't really in Evatt's plans either. Williams & Iredale fighting over a shirt. Beck & John out in the cold. Beck, unlike bradley, looks our level and a potential perm We may need iredale at centre back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter desperado Posted January 17, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2023 25 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said: Why buy him when you don't know where to play him? Its not like he hasn't played at this level to know his best position A loan maybe, see where he fits in But he's on a contract till we can sell him So that's wages and a squad place taken up 1 minute ago, Stevowanderer said: At the time we were jumping between the 4 at the back and the 5. We’d spent most of the first half of the season with a 4 atb and 2 wingers and I think Evatt wanted him for that versatility. Wing back, wing, number 10. Pretty sure he’s played as an 8 too. He was brought in because of that imo. I also think it probably is just one of the cases where it hasn’t completely worked out. He scored and assisted at important times over the last 12 months especially in the pizza cup this season so he could be a big reason we end up at Wembley. Not every transfer that comes in will be a huge success and I don’t agree it’s just a wage/squad place used up. You need a squad and you need the odd player that can play multiple positions to cover injuries. He probably would have been more of a success as an individual if we had stuck with a 4atb (like Dapo in some respects). But we function better as a unit in this system… much more solid defensively. We’ve just missed too many chances this season at times. Good response @Stevowanderer We’ve spoken before about transfers, especially in Bolton’s situation, being a gamble to a certain degree. He could have been a player who pushed on to be an integral part of the first 11 in any number of positions in certain formations. At that particular time as Stevo correctly points out we were between formations. If he had have gone on to fulfil his promise on a short contract, we’d have been questioning why his contract wasn’t longer. The reality of the situation is one you couldn’t have predicted 12 months on - that he’s just not proven good enough or consistent enough to hold down a first 11 place in the formation that now suits us the best. Therefore he’s for sale and we hopefully move him on to a club in league 2 where he can hold down a place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DirtySanchez Posted January 17, 2023 Members Share Posted January 17, 2023 40 minutes ago, Stevowanderer said: At the time we were jumping between the 4 at the back and the 5. We’d spent most of the first half of the season with a 4 atb and 2 wingers and I think Evatt wanted him for that versatility. Wing back, wing, number 10. Pretty sure he’s played as an 8 too. He was brought in because of that imo. I also think it probably is just one of the cases where it hasn’t completely worked out. He scored and assisted at important times over the last 12 months especially in the pizza cup this season so he could be a big reason we end up at Wembley. Not every transfer that comes in will be a huge success and I don’t agree it’s just a wage/squad place used up. You need a squad and you need the odd player that can play multiple positions to cover injuries. He probably would have been more of a success as an individual if we had stuck with a 4atb (like Dapo in some respects). But we function better as a unit in this system… much more solid defensively. We’ve just missed too many chances this season at times. I just think as a player we knew what we were signing Saying sometimes signings don't work out, yes Playing him as a wing back? Giving a full time contract You have to admit it's been a waste of wage, when we're limited in that department Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 17, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2023 We may also not have had the option of taking him on loan, depending upon what he and his club wanted. Certainly not a waste of a wage given his goals and contributions late in games. There are plenty of full time players who don't get much time for whatever reason and they all have to be paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted January 17, 2023 Moderators Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Traf said: Beck & John out in the cold. Here's a picture of John Beck out in the cold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DirtySanchez Posted January 17, 2023 Members Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: We may also not have had the option of taking him on loan, depending upon what he and his club wanted. Certainly not a waste of a wage given his goals and contributions late in games. There are plenty of full time players who don't get much time for whatever reason and they all have to be paid. You do realise he's contracted for the next two years You say he's not been a waste of a wage but we all know he ain't playing, so for the next two years he is a waste of wages if he doesn't play or played in a position to suit him Which we don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevowanderer Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 18 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said: I just think as a player we knew what we were signing Saying sometimes signings don't work out, yes Playing him as a wing back? Giving a full time contract You have to admit it's been a waste of wage, when we're limited in that department Completely disagree it’s been a waste of a wage. It’s not like you know how much he’s actually on relative to the rest of the squad anyway? How are we limited in that department btw? We certainly have a top 6/8 wage bill in the league. We may not be able compete with Wednesday and Ipswich financially (Ipswich have just put 14 million in to the club through a share issue) but we are about where we should be in the league for budget. As above we were between formations and we needed versatility. He’s contributed less than he may have liked but he’s still contributed. You can’t get every signing right. I’m sure when Dion Charles was going through that lean spell people were saying ‘oh what a waste of money… we could have better spent that elsewhere’… that’s the risk isn’t it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevowanderer Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said: You do realise he's contracted for the next two years You say he's not been a waste of a wage but we all know he ain't playing, so for the next two years he is a waste of wages if he doesn't play or played in a position to suit him Which we don't No he hasn’t. He has 18 months left. A 2 and a half year deal is normal and what he was given. He was 26/27 and it protected his value for us if he had worked out. Plus if he’s moved on we will get a fee. Or his contract will get ripped up and he’ll move on a free… at which point he’ll have effectively been contracted for 12 months anyway. If he stays then I truly don’t believe he is a waste of a squad place. He’s still versatile and can still do a job if called upon. Also he doesn’t seem to be one to throw his toys out when not playing - a good character - perfect for a squad player. You really are missing the point… he was bought to play multiple positions. That’s his value as a footballer. edit- also just checked… he’s played in 27 games for us this season!! A lot off the bench but that’s hardly not playing haha. Jeez. Edited January 17, 2023 by Stevowanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DirtySanchez Posted January 17, 2023 Members Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Stevowanderer said: No he hasn’t. He has 18 months left. A 2 and a half year deal is normal and what he was given. He was 26/27 and it protected his value for us if he had worked out. Plus if he’s moved on we will get a fee. Or his contract will get ripped up and he’ll move on a free… at which point he’ll have effectively been contracted for 12 months anyway. If he stays then I truly don’t believe he is a waste of a squad place. He’s still versatile and can still do a job if called upon. Also he doesn’t seem to be one to throw his toys out when not playing - a good character - perfect for a squad player. You really are missing the point… he was bought to play multiple positions. That’s his value as a footballer. Well he wasn't happy at Rotherham We only get cash for him if someone wants to sign him I'm not criticising him Just wondering why we signed him And his value as a footballer How's that going this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevowanderer Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 I’ve edited post. He’s played 27 games this season (which to be fair is more than I thought he had)…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DirtySanchez Posted January 17, 2023 Members Share Posted January 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Stevowanderer said: I’ve edited post. He’s played 27 games this season (which to be fair is more than I thought he had)…. How many of those where token sub appearances and being played out of position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted January 17, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2023 43 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said: You do realise he's contracted for the next two years You say he's not been a waste of a wage but we all know he ain't playing, so for the next two years he is a waste of wages if he doesn't play or played in a position to suit him Which we don't Some signings work out, some don't. That has always been and forever will be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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