Jan 10th. 

anyone actually going to this?  Spoke to loads yesterday who aren't bothering 

struggling to recruit someone to travel with

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

And that fucking AI can piss off whilst we’re at it. And why do we need electric cars? And don’t get me started on emails, what were wrong with a written letter? 😂😂

Coz some acne-ridden track-suited twat says 'there were 3 chances & only one went in' and thinks he's discovered a new element is the equivalent of that.

1 minute ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Coz some acne-ridden track-suited twat says 'there were 3 chances & only one went in' and thinks he's discovered a new element is the equivalent of that.

Look at the "stats" quoted on motd.

They seem to find a new one each week.

Some are truly bizarre. 

Come on fellas, Xg is shite because it exists without context of the game being played, not because moving with the times is necessary bad and I am getting on a bit.

18 minutes ago, ianofcleveleys said:

It was a lot better when, if you wanted to call for the manager's head, you had to write a letter to the BEN, post it and wait to see if it appeared in the week 😊

I think it was £5 for the letter of the week in the 80s, won that at least once.

Not as good as the Pink though, £10 for letter of the week, won that once also (to be clear, this did not require anything above nonsense ramblings 😀).

54 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

Come on fellas, Xg is shite because it exists without context of the game being played, not because moving with the times is necessary bad and I am getting on a bit.

I’m taking the piss (although I imagine it’s those ‘more set in their ways’ that hate it).

I don’t think it’s gospel, I think the way it’s calculated has many flaws, I think the calibration point across leagues is fair, I think the context of chances can’t be put into a stat and to be honest I hate the over analysis of football that has seen the game - especially at the top level - turn into one big game of chess played by systems rather than players.

Having said all that, when you compare it across teams in the same league and you see that we score nowhere near as many goals as our chances and positions suggest we should, whilst others score more goals than they would be expected to, I don’t think it’s ridiculous to use it to back up the conclusion that we all see on the pitch - we’re fucking terrible at converting our chances and with a better striker we’d have more points.

It’s as simple as that for me.

2 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

Sheehan had zero reason to be embarrassed. The manager had tried to tweak the system, it wasn’t working and it didn’t look like it was going to work. We were trailing by a goal and the more the half dragged on, the more it looked like Posh were going to double their lead - so the manager made a decisive move to change the system to ensure we got into the dressing room only a goal down - and that system didn’t require Sheehan. It’s a squad game and nobody should be miffed by being subbed for tactical reasons.

Gale on the other hand, was part of the reason we were getting stuffed - he didn’t defend and he was wank in attack. He had every right to feel embarrassed - by his own performance.

Gale is another signing that only plays well now and then. Recruitment last summer was the worst since Sammy Lee

2 hours ago, Winchester White said:

Come on fellas, Xg is shite because it exists without context of the game being played, not because moving with the times is necessary bad and I am getting on a bit.

Aye, it's a very subjective stat for me

6 minutes ago, RUREADY2ROLL said:

Gale is another signing that only plays well now and then. Recruitment last summer was the worst since Sammy Lee

Or Evatt according to some.

All our signings have qualities, but consistency is a rarer thing.

2 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

Or Evatt according to some.

All our signings have qualities, but consistency is a rarer thing.

Agree but like Simons it’s no use playing well then shite. That’s why we are losing so many points and will end up in a relegation battle unless we strengthen 

3 hours ago, Zico said:

Take a look at this video, 'what is XG in terms of football' https://share.google/YH5OVA7EixK4mAOOo

I’ll have a look when I’ve not had a few pints.

37 minutes ago, RUREADY2ROLL said:

Agree but like Simons it’s no use playing well then shite. That’s why we are losing so many points and will end up in a relegation battle unless we strengthen 

They’re all inconsistent, not just Simons. That’s why different posters jump on player x, y or z for being shit because sooner or later they’ll have a poor game or two.

That said, they are L1 standard players - players that we can afford - so a poor game every now and then is to be expected. However if someone is out of form or just having a bad day, it’s the managers role to sub them or drop them for someone else who is playing better in training.

The question I have is how will strengthening help if e.g. the system is wrong? Should we continue to throw money at the problem if what we’re trying to buy is consistency? 
 

Maybe it’s just me, but it’s not just player’s inconsistent form but the incoherent system at fault. For that matter, maybe their form is inconsistent because they don’t get the system or it’s not designed with their skill set in mind?

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

I’m taking the piss (although I imagine it’s those ‘more set in their ways’ that hate it).

I don’t think it’s gospel, I think the way it’s calculated has many flaws, I think the calibration point across leagues is fair, I think the context of chances can’t be put into a stat and to be honest I hate the over analysis of football that has seen the game - especially at the top level - turn into one big game of chess played by systems rather than players.

Having said all that, when you compare it across teams in the same league and you see that we score nowhere near as many goals as our chances and positions suggest we should, whilst others score more goals than they would be expected to, I don’t think it’s ridiculous to use it to back up the conclusion that we all see on the pitch - we’re fucking terrible at converting our chances and with a better striker we’d have more points.

It’s as simple as that for me.

As reasonable as that argument is I still disagree. We have a lot of low quality shots on goal that the other opposition are happy for us to have, especially if they're ahead already. Those multiple low quality chances add up to a ridiculously high xg versus what we're seeing with our eyes in the game.

Yes we've had the odd missed sitter, but that's the anomaly. In the main it's lots of low quality chances missed

On 10/01/2026 at 20:20, RONNIE PHILLIPS said:

When do you start at big school?

Genius 😜

10 hours ago, Stig said:

As reasonable as that argument is I still disagree. We have a lot of low quality shots on goal that the other opposition are happy for us to have, especially if they're ahead already. Those multiple low quality chances add up to a ridiculously high xg versus what we're seeing with our eyes in the game.

Yes we've had the odd missed sitter, but that's the anomaly. In the main it's lots of low quality chances missed

My main issue with XG and some the other plethora of largely meaningless stats pumped out in today's game is they can be hidden behind / used as a shield by managers when under scrutiny. Evatt did so frequently in his latter days and SS is starting to - 'we'll go and look at the data' after the Northampton game. It really wasn't necessary, his own eyes ought to have told him enough.

Our stats about shots are such a misleader, we often look to have had a lot of shots, a fair few on target, but how many actually work the keeper would be more valuable.  Too many of our 'shots on target' are the result of cutting in, finding themselves in crowded areas and just firing it into bodies and legs. Others, if they do get through to the keeper, barely trouble them.

Some of the other stats, like successful passes, final third entries, are of no real meaning or value (in my humble opinion 🤣)

 

Edited January 12Jan 12 by ianofcleveleys

12 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

They’re all inconsistent, not just Simons. That’s why different posters jump on player x, y or z for being shit because sooner or later they’ll have a poor game or two.

That said, they are L1 standard players - players that we can afford - so a poor game every now and then is to be expected. However if someone is out of form or just having a bad day, it’s the managers role to sub them or drop them for someone else who is playing better in training.

The question I have is how will strengthening help if e.g. the system is wrong? Should we continue to throw money at the problem if what we’re trying to buy is consistency? 
 

Maybe it’s just me, but it’s not just player’s inconsistent form but the incoherent system at fault. For that matter, maybe their form is inconsistent because they don’t get the system or it’s not designed with their skill set in mind?

I think you’re right on both points lusty but to be fair SS has played the same system all season so it’s more likely the players that are inconsistent. For me that’s why we need a few key older more experience higher quality players and they are about at rates we can afford. We don’t need them to be in their prime, we know we can’t afford that but there are always players like Kieran Lee and Cyrus Christie about who can be consistent but we seem to largely ignore this type of player who might only last a year or two in favour of young players we can develop and sell on. Frankly I don’t want to just develop players I want the ones who can get us out of this shit league. I’m not against developing players obviously but it’s a question of priorities and for 5 years now we’ve prioritised youth over experience and until we change I can only see us staying here.

1 hour ago, ianofcleveleys said:

My main issue with XG and some the other plethora of largely meaningless stats pumped out in today's game is they can be hidden behind / used as a shield by managers when under scrutiny. Evatt did so frequently in his latter days and SS is starting to - 'we'll go and look at the data' after the Northampton game. It really wasn't necessary, his own eyes ought to have told him enough.

Our stats about shots are such a misleader, we often look to have had a lot of shots, a fair few on target, but how many actually work the keeper would be more valuable.  Too many of our 'shots on target' are the result of cutting in, finding themselves in crowded areas and just firing it into bodies and legs. Others, if they do get through to the keeper, barely trouble them.

Some of the other stats, like successful passes, final third entries, are of no real meaning or value (in my humble opinion 🤣)

 

At Amazon we had this saying that going along the lines of If something isn't working and the KPI says it is, the KPI is broken. 

So many times i've heard...well the kpi says it's right while processes fail and outcomes decline.

Like Evatt with his passing stats, when that's your focus you create a team that can only pass, which is why he removed any kind of versatility in the squad over time. Which is ultimately why when he said "Changing me won't change anything, it's the same players." he was correct. 

When you look, not at the formation, that's obviously changed, but at the underlying tactics, we have in essence recreated Evatts tactics. I don't understand why because these are not the tactics he used at Plymouth or Stoke. 

He even has this years Ricardo Santos (George Johnson) coming forward to do long floaty passes and being caught in a poor positon. 

 

Edited January 12Jan 12 by Zog1

BBC have added a player performance stat page to their match reports (line ups/ select player) so I checked out Sheehan in the Posh game before he was hooked and in 44 minutes he made zero tackles and 11 passes with an accuracy of 54%. Ok he tried some spectacular ones (and failed) but even so 54% is appalling so no wonder he was taken off.

I had assumed it was due to changing the system, but perhaps not.

Edited January 12Jan 12 by Wanderlust

SS changed the system before half time because the penny finally dropped that playing two wingers away from home was not working and leaving the defence exposed time and time again.

I said back in October we needed to stop playing two wingers away from home and stop our ponderous carrying of the ball from our centre backs.

4/3/3 Will be the way forward from now until may with ACD switching wings and two forwards 

We may even see no winger and two tens utilised

I think Mcatee is the answer alongside Burstow or we bite the bullet and bring another forward in but i am now convinced we wont see two wingers away again

7 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

SS changed the system before half time because the penny finally dropped that playing two wingers away from home was not working and leaving the defence exposed time and time again.

I said back in October we needed to stop playing two wingers away from home and stop our ponderous carrying of the ball from our centre backs.

4/3/3 Will be the way forward from now until may with ACD switching wings and two forwards 

We may even see no winger and two tens utilised

I think Mcatee is the answer alongside Burstow or we bite the bullet and bring another forward in but i am now convinced we wont see two wingers away again

Hope you are correct as I have the same thoughts for a while now.

The reason you play 4231 is for versatility, but if your entire attacking strategy is seeminly every pass must go to ACD and he must cut in, then youre not being versatile, and thus the entire team's attack is broken. 

4231 also requires everyone to be working, and the middle 2 are the key to that, one has to be a bull dog and the other has to be a box to box type who can pass.

Without that the core of the team doesn't work, i think we had that for a bit with Simons and Erhahon. Since Sheehan has come into the team the middle 2 have looked poor and i think its becasue he doesnt fit either of those two types, he can pass but thats about it. 

I'm the same but I think he'll continue with two wingers. A lot of folk on here keep talking about the signings we need and I agree. Centre forward, keeper and right back, and possibly centre half. It's not happening though, SS seems to have indicated there might be very little coming in, probably not what he would like but constraints by the owners and Feargal Sharkey, or whatever his surname is.

Going to stick my penneth in about Cogley, not convinced he should be forced out. But he obviously is for some reason, anyone got inside knowledge  @royal white?

Fucking dreading Saturday but a good performance and win could turn it around. I'm about as optimistic as @L/H White currently.

Edited January 12Jan 12 by Alf Hartigan
Meant to put this in Transfer Gossip thread

1 hour ago, Wanderlust said:

BBC have added a player performance stat page to their match reports (line ups/ select player) so I checked out Sheehan in the Posh game before he was hooked and in 44 minutes he made zero tackles and 11 passes with an accuracy of 54%. Ok he tried some spectacular ones (and failed) but even so 54% is appalling so no wonder he was taken off.

I had assumed it was due to changing the system, but perhaps not.

I'm more interested to know if the stats improved via the players that came on

58 minutes ago, Zico said:

I'm more interested to know if the stats improved via the players that came on

Christie who came in for Josh made 24 passes with 75% accuracy and created one chance

Dalby who came on for Gale only had 45% pass accuracy but scored and created a chance and made a couple of tackles

FWIW Simons had 85% pass accuracy and created one chance

Morley 87.5% and Dempsey 80% on a par really seeing as Dempsey made more passes and runs

Forss only made 3 passes in 32 minutes -  but at least found a teammate so has 100% by default.😀

Edited January 13Jan 13 by Wanderlust

7 hours ago, Rizlar said:

Hope you are correct as I have the same thoughts for a while now.

Trouble is, we still lost the second half.

Yes, we were better, but not good enough. 

We do have to be more solid away in particular, but at the moment to whole team's confidence is shot.

8 hours ago, Alf Hartigan said:

I'm the same but I think he'll continue with two wingers. A lot of folk on here keep talking about the signings we need and I agree. Centre forward, keeper and right back, and possibly centre half. It's not happening though, SS seems to have indicated there might be very little coming in, probably not what he would like but constraints by the owners and Feargal Sharkey, or whatever his surname is.

Going to stick my penneth in about Cogley, not convinced he should be forced out. But he obviously is for some reason, anyone got inside knowledge  @royal white?

Fucking dreading Saturday but a good performance and win could turn it around. I'm about as optimistic as @L/H White currently.

Why dreading, the days of the pie men embarrassing us are long gone and they’re as weak currently as they’ve been for years. If Schuey can’t get a tune out of our lot this weekend then he’s not the man for the job and likewise the players because they should be under no illusions just how important this game is to us and over 4,000 Wanderers fans will let them know that from minute one onwards.