Trafford centre is trending on twitter because the car park hasn't got one space left haha all these wankers are shopping!! <img src='http://www.wanderersways.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='::::' />

 

I avoid the Trafford Centre at the best of times (much prefer shopping in Man), but it's a definite no go late November/December. I pity anybody who goes there then. I went to meet a friend for food last year around middle Dec - took me two bastard hours to get off the car park. Never again.

The bank of greed is responsible for 3/4 of the reasons theyre in shit creek without a paddle.

 

What the banks did was legal, if they hadn't done it they would have been failing their shareholders.

 

The problem for me is that in Captialism badly run companies fail, survival of the fittest and all that. The banks don't seem to run this risk.

Trafford centre is trending on twitter because the car park hasn't got one space left haha all these wankers are shopping!! <img src='http://www.wanderersways.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='::::' />

Was the same at middle brook today not fucking space nipped to02 shop

Pathetic really - I walk through Parliament square to get to and from work each day - didn't see a single striker walking to work at 745, or walking home at 1830 - presumably just not public sector striking/working hours.

Deepdale was shocking today.

I'm not sure if it was people 'striking' or parents who were unable to go to work as they couldn't afford to pay for alternative childcare.

And as Spider says, there's some shit being written on Facebook. You'd think they were Mother Theresa's the way some talk about he work they do. They do get paid for the work they do, dont they?

Pathetic really - I walk through Parliament square to get to and from work each day - didn't see a single striker walking to work at 745, or walking home at 1830 - presumably just not public sector striking/working hours.

I never realised there was an Aldi near there - you live and learn

Pathetic really - I walk through Parliament square to get to and from work each day - didn't see a single striker walking to work at 745, or walking home at 1830 - presumably just not public sector striking/working hours.

 

they were outside our place from before 7 till 11.

 

They then had a demo in Victoria Square. from 11 til 12:30

 

Then marched to Dean Labour Club for a pie and peas lunch to be served at 13:00

just been on telly that NHS pension fund is annually ?2bn in surplus and public sector ?4bn.

 

now if this is the case you start seeing their point, is it that the govt is saying as their employer they want to cut their (ie the employer) contribution?

just been on telly that NHS pension fund is annually ?2bn in surplus and public sector ?4bn.

 

now if this is the case you start seeing their point, is it that the govt is saying as their employer they want to cut their (ie the TAXPAYER contribution?

just been on telly that NHS pension fund is annually ?2bn in surplus and public sector ?4bn.

 

now if this is the case you start seeing their point, is it that the govt is saying as their employer they want to cut their (ie the employer) contribution?

May well be true. That will swing though the longer it goes on and the longer people live. How many people are taking out of the scheme now versus how many will be in 20 years time?

May well be true. That will swing though the longer it goes on and the longer people live. How many people are taking out of the scheme now versus how many will be in 20 years time?

As i said earlier the pension fund for GM council workers has enough cash in it to run for 20yrs even if folk stopped paying in now.

 

that includes folk who'd retire in that 20yrs.

 

There does need to be a reduction in Employer contribution and changes to the pension set up for folk like me who've got 30 odds yrs left before they retire.

 

perhaps not as punitive as the Tories are planning though.

It never was an economic argument. Don't let them pretend otherwise.

It never was an economic argument. Don't let them pretend otherwise.

 

Many private employers who ran final payment schemes took payment holidays and fucked over their employees. It's all about levelling the playing field.

As i said earlier the pension fund for GM council workers has enough cash in it to run for 20yrs even if folk stopped paying in now.

 

that includes folk who'd retire in that 20yrs.

 

There does need to be a reduction in Employer contribution and changes to the pension set up for folk like me who've got 30 odds yrs left before they retire.

 

perhaps not as punitive as the Tories are planning though.

 

 

I think that's the problem, Frank. Many in the public sector believe us in the private sector earn more. That is now proven to be untrue. Us in the private sector do not seem to see the Unions wanting to compromise at all.

I do think those in the public sector need to look at it from the eyes of the private sector workers, then maybe they will accept some sort of compromise on this.

The wage structure has changed dramatically in the last few years. So much so that many in the private sector cannot afford a pension of their own, so to hear the public sectors demands is bound to grate.

As for final wage pensions, come on, that can't be a reasonable demand.

I think that's the problem, Frank. Many in the public sector believe us in the private sector earn more. That is now proven to be untrue. Us in the private sector do not seem to see the Unions wanting to compromise at all.

I do think those in the public sector need to look at it from the eyes of the private sector workers, then maybe they will accept some sort of compromise on this.

The wage structure has changed dramatically in the last few years. So much so that many in the private sector cannot afford a pension of their own, so to hear the public sectors demands is bound to grate.

As for final wage pensions, come on, that can't be a reasonable demand.

 

As I said, a levelling of the playing field.

I think that's the problem, Frank. Many in the public sector believe us in the private sector earn more. That is now proven to be untrue. Us in the private sector do not seem to see the Unions wanting to compromise at all.

I do think those in the public sector need to look at it from the eyes of the private sector workers, then maybe they will accept some sort of compromise on this.

The wage structure has changed dramatically in the last few years. So much so that many in the private sector cannot afford a pension of their own, so to hear the public sectors demands is bound to grate.

As for final wage pensions, come on, that can't be a reasonable demand.

 

the thing is in my job the private sector do earn more up to 25% more in my case.

 

I've had job offers from some large engineering firms but I took the less pay for job security, good pension and flexible working conditions(for reasons obvious if you've read the Collymore thread).

 

We lost a crap load of very good engineers to the private sector a few years back chasing the ????'s (fair play to em) and we were left with old timers and trainees (like me). The old timers have now since retired either due to age or volunteering for early retirements. We now only have 2 chartered engineers where we once had 8. That's a lot of knowledge gone in 3-4 yrs.

In general, Frank, it's not the case. St. Jezzer Vine went into the stats today.

 

As Michael said, a levelling of the playing field is needed.

In general, Frank, it's not the case. St. Jezzer Vine went into the stats today.

 

As Michael said, a levelling of the playing field is needed.

 

the thing is most folk who work for public sector don't have a comparable job in the private sector.

 

I know the lads on the tools for our lot would get paid more a lot more in fact in the private sector (though they'd have to do a full days graft for that).

Biffa bins pays better than being a council bin man.

Librarians for unis get more than council librarians.

 

I don't doubt that admin types may get paid a better wage than those in the private sector.

 

Councils have been cutting back every year in the 7 years i've been there even during the good times we had to deliver more for less.

As i said earlier the pension fund for GM council workers has enough cash in it to run for 20yrs even if folk stopped paying in now.

 

 

Yes, that's how a pension scheme works - they're supposed to have assets built up to match their existing liabilities. The mindset that somehow this means there is spare capacity is part of the reason we're in the mess we're in.

 

 

 

Public sector employees are paid more per hour*, retire earlier and have significantly bigger pensions. They bitch and moan at pay freezes, but pretend not to hear when its pointed out that public sector pay growth through the recession has been double the private sector.

 

I suppose it is the trade union's job to get the best deal possible, but their ability to push for this well past the point of reasonableness, or any sense of fairness, is beyond belief.

 

 

* N.b. this pay gap is primarily at the bottom of the income scale, where the public sector seems to be a wonderful place for the low skilled to get paid more than they're worth, particularly the further north you go. Public sector senior management tend to be paid roughly in line with the going rate, on average.

* N.b. this pay gap is primarily at the bottom of the income scale, where the public sector seems to be a wonderful place for the low skilled to get paid more than they're worth, particularly the further north you go. Public sector senior management tend to be paid roughly in line with the going rate, on average.

 

 

The whole pay and grading system assesed every local authority job and assigned them a pay based on a huge variety.

 

most of these low worth low skilled worked are due to take a huge pay cut in April.

Edited November 30, 201114 yr by frank_spencer

You really are a pompus twunt aren't you?

 

The whole pay and grading system assesed every local authority job and assigned them a pay based on a huge variety.

 

most of these low worth low skilled worked are due to take a huge pay cut in April.

 

Good.

 

Why the fuck should I as a taxpayer pay people more than they're worth when there are over 2m unemployed, many of whom would love those jobs.

 

The unskilled are demonstrably overpaid in the public sector -

 

http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/publications/pdfs/Further_analysis_on_the_public_sector_pay_premium.pdf

 

 

You are paid to do your job, at the going rate to do it. The public sector should not be (I wish I could be more certain it wasn't) a charity scheme to keep the unskilled in overpaid jobs.

 

I know you love to through around insults at me, but several members of my family are unemployed due to this recession, and I was made redundant in it too. I don't believe that I, my family, or anyone else, is owed a living. We all have to earn it.

 

 

 

N.b. if you have a look in the detailed tables of that report, you'll see that even after adjusting for the skill and experience level of the workforce, the public sector in the North West gets a 20% premium to the local private sector. Poor dears.

Edited November 30, 201114 yr by maaarsh

 

I know you love to through around insults at me, but several members of my family are unemployed due to this recession, and I was made redundant in it too.

 

I took out the insult as i thought i was going too far getting personal.

 

I'll call you a tory boy to my hearts content but i shouldn't go any further than that and i apologise for the personal insult.

 

We'll never agree on these things me and thee. My father has been made redundant 3 times in the last few years as the company he'd worked for since he was 15 went belly up after they got shafted by the yanks that owned them asset stripping the company and letting go to the wall the other 2 times as a result of being last in thus first out. He's set himself up as a self employed contractor and is doing ok now.

 

The overpaid thing as of april should be nonsense.

 

There are a good many folk who are in over paid jobs equally I'd say some of em dont get paid enough.

 

A job isn't just about the skills and education you have.

 

some of the really shitty jobs have extras for working outside in all weathers.

 

I'd rather the council employed more street sweepers, park wardens etc out there actually doing things and less policy and politics wonks sat in the depths of the town hall.

Why don't more people leave the private sector and join the public sector then? Serious question. If the pay is shit and the demands are higher and the pension is shit, why didn't you join the public sector during the time when it was being so obscenely pampered under Labour and pay for managers was going fucking nuclear? I remember years ago reading about some cunt at University College London who joined on ?200,000 a year, becoming the third individual on the staff paid that sum or more. That figure is eighteen now and in 2003, or 4 or summat, he refused to cut salaries of the top management to pay cleaning staff the extra they needed on the gounds that it was a luxury they couldn't afford. It is massive pensions for pondlife like him you should be upset at, not the 14k a year cleaner, but a lot of you can't distinguish between them. You assume that becasue senior management is a gravy train, it all is. Panorama a while ago said there were 10,000 people in the public sector earning more than the ?142k the Prime Minsiter gets yearly to supplement his ?35 million unearned inherited fortune, all on final salary pensions when they swan off for a 30 year retirement at the age of 52. It's obscene, grotesque and parasitic and as reprehensible as the banking bonuses, but it is not the fault of the aforementioned school cleaner on 14k.

 

Other than a severe distrust of the unions and the Tories alike, I'm on the fence on this one overall with regards to the average modesly waged public sector worker pension and can see merit in many arguments excepting those made by Tories and trade unionists, but I'm not comportable with this blame the private sector people are putting on the public sector workers for their crap pensions. It is not the fault of public sector workers that private sector pension organisers scrapped defined beneift schemes I think they were called, and replaced them with contribution schemes, or that contribution holidays were taken when there was surplus, or that so many opted out of deficit benefit schemes and took out personal pensions with worse returns. The blame for following bad adice doesn't lie with the public sector. And we are still in a situation where half of all public sector pensions are worth ?5300 or less. Generous, yes, more generous than private sector ones, yes. But I think the trouble is more that private sectro pensions have been made a mess off and that cannot be blamed on the average public sector worker, the life of riley he/she had under Labour notwithstanding. There' a lot of scapegoating and a lot of racing to the bottom.

 

Overall there will be anger about tis whole scenario until corporations start paying tax properly, senior management is well and truly thinned out, fatcat pay is reigned in (both sectors)and BASTARD MPs CUT THEIR OWN FUCKING MASSIVE PENSIONS.

Why don't more people leave the private sector and join the public sector then? Serious question. If the pay is shit and the demands are higher and the pension is shit, why didn't you join the public sector during the time when it was being so obscenely pampered under Labour and pay for managers was going fucking nuclear? I remember years ago reading about some cunt at University College London who joined on ?200,000 a year, becoming the third individual on the staff paid that sum or more. That figure is eighteen now and in 2003, or 4 or summat, he refused to cut salaries of the top management to pay cleaning staff the extra they needed on the gounds that it was a luxury they couldn't afford. It is massive pensions for pondlife like him you should be upset at, not the 14k a year cleaner, but a lot of you can't distinguish between them. You assume that becasue senior management is a gravy train, it all is. Panorama a while ago said there were 10,000 people in the public sector earning more than the ?142k the Prime Minsiter gets yearly to supplement his ?35 million unearned inherited fortune, all on final salary pensions when they swan off for a 30 year retirement at the age of 52. It's obscene, grotesque and parasitic and as reprehensible as the banking bonuses, but it is not the fault of the aforementioned school cleaner on 14k.

 

Other than a severe distrust of the unions and the Tories alike, I'm on the fence on this one overall with regards to the average modesly waged public sector worker pension and can see merit in many arguments excepting those made by Tories and trade unionists, but I'm not comportable with this blame the private sector people are putting on the public sector workers for their crap pensions. It is not the fault of public sector workers that private sector pension organisers scrapped defined beneift schemes I think they were called, and replaced them with contribution schemes, or that contribution holidays were taken when there was surplus, or that so many opted out of deficit benefit schemes and took out personal pensions with worse returns. The blame for following bad adice doesn't lie with the public sector. And we are still in a situation where half of all public sector pensions are worth ?5300 or less. Generous, yes, more generous than private sector ones, yes. But I think the trouble is more that private sectro pensions have been made a mess off and that cannot be blamed on the average public sector worker, the life of riley he/she had under Labour notwithstanding. There' a lot of scapegoating and a lot of racing to the bottom.

 

Overall there will be anger about tis whole scenario until corporations start paying tax properly, senior management is well and truly thinned out, fatcat pay is reigned in (both sectors)and BASTARD MPs CUT THEIR OWN FUCKING MASSIVE PENSIONS.

 

 

im not trained to be a prick so cant be a council worker or summert

Best way to save money for the Gov would be bring the troops home and then Nuke the Afgan,job done then maybe we could all have more monry eh

Edited November 30, 201114 yr by M G WHITES