October 21, 201312 yr You'd probably say the same about Solbakken with Wolves then? Exactly the same circumstances, although he came in 6 months earlier than Freedman did he was incable of doing the job he was paid for with Wolves good players. he was sacked and replace, as is being suggested we do. Wolves went down as we know Solbakken? last seen getting a draw with Juventus in the champions league less than a month ago. Freedman has had a year. We're in a worse state than when he came. When do we draw the line in the sand? The point will come, we all know that. It's just how long we leave it and how much shit we are in when we do it.
October 21, 201312 yr You'd probably say the same about Solbakken with Wolves then? Exactly the same circumstances, although he came in 6 months earlier than Freedman did he was incable of doing the job he was paid for with Wolves good players. he was sacked and replace, as is being suggested we do. Wolves went down as we know Solbakken? last seen getting a draw with Juventus in the champions league less than a month ago. But to be fair the job he's doing at his current club is irrelevant. He wasn't doing a particularly good job at Wolves. Their mistake wasn't replacing him, it was appointing the wrong person to replace him. If they'd appointed Jacket instead of Saunders, they'd probably still be in the Championship now.
October 21, 201312 yr We're in a worse state than when he came. if all you want to look at its ppg or league position, i can't argue otherwise if you want to look at it in isolation and take no account of owt else like lack of money, his reducing the wage bill, setting up some structure behind the scenes, i really don't think theres much point us discussing it?
October 21, 201312 yr ...we have no hope currently of getting out of this division. .. I think we're in grave danger of getting out of this division.
October 21, 201312 yr But to be fair the job he's doing at his current club is irrelevant. He wasn't doing a particularly good job at Wolves. Their mistake wasn't replacing him, it was appointing the wrong person to replace him. If they'd appointed Jacket instead of Saunders, they'd probably still be in the Championship now. The point I was making Just because he couldn't get a load of overpaid pricks to play (who he wants rid of but cant) doesn't mean he isn't good at his job.
October 21, 201312 yr No-one has answered my question about the missing midfield yet. Where was it? Why do our defenders get the ball, look up and conclude that the only option available is a 40 yard hoof to Eagles/Beckford? I'm honestly mystified by that.
October 21, 201312 yr if you want to look at it in isolation and take no account of owt else like lack of money, his reducing the wage bill, setting up some structure behind the scenes, i really don't think theres much point us discussing it? But every club in the Championship with possibly the exception of QPR and Forest, operates on a relatively small budget. We had the third highest wage bill in the league last season and he was in charge for the majority of it.
October 21, 201312 yr if all you want to look at its ppg or league position, i can't argue otherwise if you want to look at it in isolation and take no account of owt else like lack of money, his reducing the wage bill, setting up some structure behind the scenes, i really don't think theres much point us discussing it? Doesn't matter. A good manager has to cope with all the shit that's going on at the club. We can't afford a manager that we need to cut some slack. They need to hit the ground running and fire fight. That's the job. Might be harsh but it's getting to ship up or ship out time
October 21, 201312 yr Mick Brown, if you were a red from down the road would you have fired Ferguson after 12 months, or recognised that maybe he was sorting stuff slowly but surely? If Freedman could get rid of just those 3 high earners he might be able to get 3 or 4 more players in who could be a Jedinak or Bolasie and gradually improve us. I'm more thsn happy to give him credit based on Palace because he really had to start from the bottom up in that case.
October 21, 201312 yr Doesn't matter. A good manager has to cope with all the shit that's going on at the club. We can't afford a manager that we need to cut some slack. They need to hit the ground running and fire fight. That's the job. Might be harsh but it's getting to ship up or ship out timeThings may get worse to get better. It is right to give him the time to do a job which appears to be much tougher than first imagined. We need to rid ourselves of quite a few that wont happen till their contracts are up this summer (can at least think of 3) We appear to have a bit more bite in the team with Mills spearing and Medo all willing to get stuck in! The beauty of this league is finishing 7-21st is not too different, not much positional money etc. It gives Dougie a decent platform to build a new team without real pressure and I think we are on a position that it could take 2-3 years to get competitive in this division again as the team isn't currently good enough. It took us 3 years with Todd/Bsa to get us out of this division last time. Id expect something similar again. Edited October 21, 201312 yr by tomski
October 21, 201312 yr if all you want to look at its ppg or league position, i can't argue otherwise if you want to look at it in isolation and take no account of owt else like lack of money, his reducing the wage bill, setting up some structure behind the scenes, i really don't think theres much point us discussing it? It's clear you're not for turning. The rest of the Dougie out brigade will look at the facts. Employed without a track record (Coyle could boast a more impressive CV) Had a squad the bookies installed as second favourites this season and everyone knows they're rarely wrong. Had also the momentum of a strong finish last season barring the loss of Dawson which we all knew would set us back. Has been given the opportunity to mix youth and experience with his own signings of: Rob Hall Connor Wilkinson Jermaine Beckford Alex Baptiste Marc Tierney Jay Spearing (Coyle loan signing originally) Craig Davies Medo Kamara Andre Moritz Neil Danns (loan) Liam Feeney (loan) Kevin McNaughton (loan) When will it end? Hand on heart can anyone tell me (excusing the youngsters) which of those players sets your pulse racing. Possibly the combativeness of Spearing on a good day albeit it was Coyle who brought him in. Do you think he's got an eye for a player? Do you think the club is a happy place to work? Does the team on the pitch look as though it's ready to turn a corner? Does he spread the net far and wide or does it look like a lot of players from in and around the same division he's been operating in for most of his footballing life? I'm afraid we've been given a bum steer, sold a pup. He's just not the man we hoped he'd be. It's not good to chop and change so often but sometimes you have to bite the bullet and say we got it wrong. Thanks but no thanks, Dougie out.
October 21, 201312 yr I'm more thsn happy to give him credit based on Palace because he really had to start from the bottom up in that case. But what did he actually achieve there? They avoided relegation in his first season and finished 17th in his second season. They were in the top six when he left but the season was less than ten games old.
October 21, 201312 yr Things may get worse to get better. It is right to give him the time to do a job which appears to be much tougher than first imagined. Or he's just making the job seem more difficult than it is.
October 21, 201312 yr I'm firmly in the freedman in camp I can see where others are coming from but for me we can't change again. Out of interest those who want rid being realistic and not incurring any compensation fees from other clubs who would you want? As far as I know we payed burnley palace and Leicester a small fortune in compensation plus the paying up of megson and coyle it's adding up.
October 21, 201312 yr But what did he actually achieve there? They avoided relegation in his first season and finished 17th in his second season. They were in the top six when he left but the season was less than ten games old. they were also in the top six in October in the season they finished 17th, so him getting them to 6th for a bit isn't owt to shout about
October 21, 201312 yr I'm firmly in the freedman in camp I can see where others are coming from but for me we can't change again. Out of interest those who want rid being realistic and not incurring any compensation fees from other clubs who would you want? As far as I know we payed burnley palace and Leicester a small fortune in compensation plus the paying up of megson and coyle it's adding up. exactly it fucks me off we sack him tomorrow and get someone else in. he has no more than 12 months to change the structure of the club, get rid of players he doesn't want, sign his own players etc etc etc if we aren't challenging for the top 6 within 12 months, he;s out the door and we start again its fucking laughable Edited October 21, 201312 yr by Garrp
October 21, 201312 yr Keeping someone in a job because we only just got rid of the last manager, isn't much of a vote of confidence though is it? It suggests that there are no other reasons to persevere with him.
October 21, 201312 yr Keeping someone in a job because we only just got rid of the last manager, isn't much of a vote of confidence though is it? It suggests that there are no other reasons to persevere with him. what are you talking about. theres three pages of reasons on this thread whether you agree or disagree with them ffs
October 21, 201312 yr Or he's just making the job seem more difficult than it is.At least I can now see some logic in what's going on (don't get me wrong I don't see this reign as a success yet) but we are getting defensively better which 4 weeks ago I thought was an impossible task. He clearly likes to build his teams from back to front ( I see merits in holding back till the last ten minutes before we go for it because it has shown signs of working) Not against sheff wed and Yeovil though who couldn't believe how much time they were getting on the ball. I believe the man has a plan and we will be okay. But to defeat my argument completely I also thought this about Coyle.
October 21, 201312 yr Folk seem to need immediate satisfaction these days. Maybe Bwfc should introduce an xfactor style vote whereby you call up to keep or sack the manager after the game on a Saturday night. Dougie finds out whether he's had the boot in a live show on tower fm on Sunday evening, shortly after they announce the song that has been voted as the goal music for the next game. Premium phone number and the club will make a fortune.
October 21, 201312 yr We all have our opinions an mine is this. You can give the fella as much time as you like and we will only go in one direction and it isn't the one we want. I've seen nowt from his time at Palace, the way he's worked with the squad he's inherited,the players he has signed or his supposed knack with the youth players to suggest otherwise. Believe me, I'm looking for chinks of light and there aren't any.
October 21, 201312 yr We all have our opinions an mine is this. You can give the fella as much time as you like and we will only go in one direction and it isn't the one we want. I've seen nowt from his time at Palace, the way he's worked with the squad he's inherited,the players he has signed or his supposed knack with the youth players to suggest otherwise. Believe me, I'm looking for chinks of light and there aren't any. Mick, you've told us you don't watch any other football?
October 21, 201312 yr No-one has answered my question about the missing midfield yet. Where was it? Why do our defenders get the ball, look up and conclude that the only option available is a 40 yard hoof to Eagles/Beckford? I'm honestly mystified by that. On Saturday it was noticeable time and time again that neither Spearing or Medo were interested in dropping back, taking the ball from the defence and carrying it forward.
October 21, 201312 yr It's not progress from last season. We've gone backwards. It was obvious that the progress comment was about this season's results & going from 3 points from the first 8 games, to 6 points from the last 4 games. But if you want to talk about last season.......Freedman inherited a team that was heading for a 2nd consecutive relegation & took them up to within a whisker of the play offs. Unfortunately, Freedman's remarkable achievement of lifting Coyle's unfit, uncommitted, shower of shite up the table, raised some peoples' expectations to unrealistic levels for when the current turnaround of players & difficult job of rebuilding had to take place. As others have said, to repair the damage that Coyle did, it was always likely that things could get worse before they get better.
October 21, 201312 yr Mick, you've told us you don't watch any other football? Doesn't stop me checking out his record there. What have you see that I haven't?
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