How Long?

[Traf]

This is getting boring now

 

getting?

 

It was never anything but.

[Guest]

You're confusing the Prem with where we are now.

 

Burnley last year.

Southampton in previous years.

Bournemouth's recent history.

 

I could go on, but as you're not getting my point, I can't be arsed.

 

Money does not make a good Manager.

 

Though money can keep a poor/average manager in a job a bit longer, I suppose.

So you consider Burnleys last 10 years to be sustained success? Of course sometimes a manager will inherit two 20 goal a season strikers and it will click. But they've not been big spenders for the past decade and have not had what I would call success. Bournemouth are well funded. Southampton again had a great academy to fall back on. Nothing to do with their recent managers. I'm sure Dougie would be considered a genius if he'd inherited players he could sell for £15M who had barely played a first team game.

 

There is a strong correlation between spending and league position and that is only getting stronger.

 

Don't confuse that with isolated examples. They of course exist where teams stumble upon a formula that works. We did with Allardyce for a while. But that is not a guarantee. Even good managers sometimes look poor under tough circumstances.

[EyesRight]

Not one player has improved under DF.

 

Forget money and budgets.

 

We aren't competitive on the pitch against opposition we should be beating based on the supposed quality of players at our disposal.

 

He doesn't maximise what he has to work with and is too stubborn in his approach.

 

I never hound out a manager, and was happy to give him the start of this season (after last years poor start) but a change is definitely needed.

Edited September 17, 2014 by EyesRight

[COYW]

They of course exist where teams stumble upon a formula that works. We did with Allardyce for a while.

 

We didn't just 'stumble upon a formula' with Allardyce. He worked out a system of play that got the best out of what he had. It wasn't just luck.

[Traf]

Allardyce was all about the science.

 

Don't be fooled by the the gruff fat walrus like exterior and the general impression he gives of being as thick as fuck.

 

The guy knows his shit.

[scallywell]

Candella raley gets mentioned when we talk about his teams,good player

[BOWTUN BAKED]

So you consider Burnleys last 10 years to be sustained success? Of course sometimes a manager will inherit two 20 goal a season strikers and it will click. But they've not been big spenders for the past decade and have not had what I would call success. Bournemouth are well funded. Southampton again had a great academy to fall back on. Nothing to do with their recent managers. I'm sure Dougie would be considered a genius if he'd inherited players he could sell for £15M who had barely played a first team game.

 

There is a strong correlation between spending and league position and that is only getting stronger.

 

Don't confuse that with isolated examples. They of course exist where teams stumble upon a formula that works. We did with Allardyce for a while. But that is not a guarantee. Even good managers sometimes look poor under tough circumstances.

You still don't get it do you?

 

Point out where I said, anywhere, anything about sustained success?

 

I said..... Good managers don't need to spend.

 

You've just quoted one of them.

 

I stick by my statement.

 

Good MANAGERS don't need to spend.

 

That is what we were talking about. Now go & look at the managers of the teams I quoted & tell me who they are, what they achieved with little to no money & you'll see good MANAGERS.

 

Whilst you're at it look back to what I actually said & get off your high horse.

[BOWTUN BAKED]

Fook it, I'll bite, just to show you you don't know what you're talking about

 

So you consider Burnleys last 10 years to be sustained success? Of course sometimes a manager will inherit two 20 goal a season strikers and it will click.

 

VOKES & INGS HADN'T MANAGED TO SCORE MORE THAN 4 GOALS IN THE PREVIOUS 3 SEASONS BEFORE SCORING 26 & 21 LAST SEASON.... WHO DO YOU THINK 'MANAGED' TO TURN THIS ROUND FOR THEM?

 

Bournemouth are well funded.

 

AYE, THEY'VE REGULARLY BEEN IN THE PAPER, BREAKING TRANSFER RECORD AFTER TRANSFER RECORD, OH, HOLD UP... NO. HOW DID THEY 'MANAGE' TO GET PROMOTED, MUST BE THE MILLIONS THEY'VE SPENT.

NO, THEY WE'RE IN ADMINISTRATION, 17 POINT DEDUCTION IN 2008/08 WHEN A 31 YEAR OLD EDDIE HOWE TOOK OVER THEY WERE 10 POINTS ADRIFT, THEY JUST MISSED OUT BEING RELEGATED IN THE GREAT ESCAPE. NEXT YEAR HE GOT THEM PROMOTED WHILST UNDER A CVA.

WONDER HOW THEY 'MANAGED' THAT?

 

I'm sure Dougie would be considered a genius if he'd inherited players he could sell for £15M who had barely played a first team game.

 

OH DEAR, OH DEAR OH DEAR!

I GIVE YOU WILFRED ZAHA, YOUR ARGUMENT BLOWN OUT THE WATER & PROOF THAT MR FREEDMAN IS NOT, NOR EVER WILL BE, A GOOD MANAGER.

 

There is a strong correlation between spending and league position and that is only getting stronger.

 

THIS BIT IS TRUE, BUT NOT A WRITTEN FACT. GOOD MANAGERS DON'T NEED TO SPEND & STILL GET PROMOTIONS OR OVER ACHIEVE YEAR AFTER YEAR, CLUB AFTER CLUB.

 

Don't confuse that with isolated examples. They of course exist where teams stumble upon a formula that works.

 

IT'S NOT STUMBLED ACROSS, THAT'S DOUGIES MODUS OPERANDI, GOOD MANAGERS DON'T NEED TO STUMBLE ACROSS THINGS, THEY IMPROVE PLAYERS, GET THEM PLAYING A STYLE THAT COMPLIMENTS EACH OTHER & IN THEIR BEST POSSIBLE POSITIONS, THEY DON'T FOOK ABOUT STUMBLING ACROSS TACTICS OR FORMATIONS.

 

We did with Allardyce for a while. But that is not a guarantee. Even good managers sometimes look poor under tough circumstances.

 

NO THEY DON'T, LAMBERT AT THE MOMEMT PROVES THAT. I COULD LIST A FEW FOR YOU, BUT AGAIN, I CAN'T BE ARSED, I'M WASTING MY CYBER BREATHE.

 

 

And I promise everyone, that is the last I have to say on this matter with this fella.

[Garrp]

There is a strong correlation between spending and league position and that is only getting stronger.

 

Actually there isn't any correlation whatsoever between transfer fees and finishing positions.

 

there is however a srong correlation between wages and league position

[Guest]

You still don't get it do you?

Point out where I said, anywhere, anything about sustained success?

I said..... Good managers don't need to spend.

You've just quoted one of them.

I stick by my statement.

Good MANAGERS don't need to spend.

That is what we were talking about. Now go & look at the managers of the teams I quoted & tell me who they are, what they achieved with little to no money & you'll see good MANAGERS.

Whilst you're at it look back to what I actually said & get off your high horse.

Why doesn't Roman Abramovich just say to Jose 'saving my pennies mate, but you don't need to buy Costa you're a good manager win the league with Torres'.

 

Allardyce didn't spend money here because there wasn't any to start with. But he sure has had to spend money at West Ham to promote them and keep them there.

 

And judging managers as good based on one seasons promotion is dangerous, Whole list of managers who've promoted teams and fallen away. Aidy Boothroyd anyone? Megson promoted West Brom twice too. Without much money.

 

And you can't look in isolation. There are times when a manager inherits a group of players that aren't far off but are under-performing and just missing an ingredient or two. At Bolton that wasn't the case. We've had to rebuild a entire squad on a shoestring. That would be tough for anyone.

 

I don't think Freedman has done well enough, but still think it can be acknowledged that it is a tough job for anyone without the cash.

[gonzo]

We've had to rebuild a entire squad on a shoestring. That would be tough for anyone.

.

Not quite.

[tyldesley_white]

 

Allardyce didn't spend money here because there wasn't any to start with.

 

Define "didn't spend money", Because I believe he spent a shit load, maybe not on transfer fees but he spent it all right

[jules_darby]

Actually there isn't any correlation whatsoever between transfer fees and finishing positions.

 

there is however a srong correlation between wages and league position

Surely we bucked that trend last season?

[jules_darby]

Candella raley gets mentioned when we talk about his teams,good player

Good player but for us specifically....massively overrated

 

Nice fella though

[SnoopJohnnyJohn]

Casino stop quoting COYW ffs

 

he's as bad as snoop.

 

Hey! Come on now.

 

I don't post made-up bollocks, I just post my opinion (which may or may not be bollocks).

[Traf]

Is bollocks.

 

JSL

[SnoopJohnnyJohn]

Is bollocks.

 

JSL

 

Fair enough

[jules_darby]

Hey! Come on now.

 

I don't post made-up bollocks, I just post my opinion (which may or may not be bollocks).

Well you made up that you'd know more from not watching them for a start

[Horwich]

Bolton news did an in and out article for every club in the division

 

Hardly anyone has "spent" anything after taking into account money coming in.

 

Problem we have is that we had no players to sell

[tarian1979]

At the top of the prem money matters more. In our league you can get out of it with the 15th or 16th highest budget if you've a good manager

[Henry_VIII]

Another simple question, is there a league table of the wage bill for each club for last season?

[SnoopJohnnyJohn]

Well you made up that you'd know more from not watching them for a start

 

Except that's not what I said... ever.

 

I'm really surprised you still don't get this after all this time. I had you down as one of the smarter ones on here.

[Guest]

At the top of the prem money matters more. In our league you can get out of it with the 15th or 16th highest budget if you've a good manager

 

This keeps getting said. You can do a lot of things with a good manager. But lets be honest we're a million miles away from going up whoever our manager is. Plus every year three sides go up. Only 3. I don't think that they have exclusivity on good managers. It is just that sometimes the conditions are perfect, see Burnley last season. They were just lucky to have those two strikers who both had sensational seasons. If you'd swapped them for NGog and Beckford, Burnley wouldn't have gone up. But they'd still have the same manager.....

[EyesRight]

This keeps getting said. You can do a lot of things with a good manager. But lets be honest we're a million miles away from going up whoever our manager is. Plus every year three sides go up. Only 3. I don't think that they have exclusivity on good managers. It is just that sometimes the conditions are perfect, see Burnley last season. They were just lucky to have those two strikers who both had sensational seasons. If you'd swapped them for NGog and Beckford, Burnley wouldn't have gone up. But they'd still have the same manager.....

At the same time if we had Burnley's forwards, DF would have played one up top, dropped one after scoring, and playing right wingers on the left offering no service.

 

DF doesn't play to the teams strengths, whichever way you try and dress it up - he's far too stubborn and think he's clever.

 

Our players are more than capable of a decent finish in this division if they are played in a system that suits them.

[Casino]

Another simple question, is there a league table of the wage bill for each club for last season?

 

 

if you google deep enough, you might find something

 

i imagine ours would be near the top for last season - the 850k mears got for watching the telly would prob cover half a dozen barnsley first teamers