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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

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superjohnmcginlay

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This U-21 comp is bollocks. We'll never win these things until we take it seriously. All the others send their best available players. We had players not travel, because they were in the senior squad for a meaningless friendly v France.

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This U-21 comp is bollocks. We'll never win these things until we take it seriously. All the others send their best available players. We had players not travel, because they were in the senior squad for a meaningless friendly v France.

spot on
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Problem is our players (like the ones you've named) don't really want to play international football.

 

They will play for the senior side as it increases their negotiating power for wages etc but I don't feel any of them are proud to wear the shirt any longer. Those days are long gone in my opinion and it's now seen as a stepping stone to a Bentley and an Aston Martin via higher wages.

 

They also have way too much power as do the clubs. How many players are not fit for international duty but can miraculously recover two days later for their club

 

I don't think it's replicated in other countries amd you've got lads flying on private jets for 12 hours each way to represent their countries.

Edited by Escobarp
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Alli, Dier, Rashford, Sterling, Stones and Shaw to an extent are all 1st team regulars - what's the benefit of making them play this tournament?

 

If they weren't getting in the 1st team because we had a load of experienced players ahead of them then I fully agree, stick them in.

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Alli, Dier, Rashford, Sterling, Stones and Shaw to an extent are all 1st team regulars - what's the benefit of making them play this tournament?

 

If they weren't getting in the 1st team because we had a load of experienced players ahead of them then I fully agree, stick them in.

 

 

Most of the Spanish/Italian/German teams are first teamers too....and many are captains.

 

This attitude is the reason we are crap.

Edited by Pablo
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Alli, Dier, Rashford, Sterling, Stones and Shaw to an extent are all 1st team regulars - what's the benefit of making them play this tournament?

 

 

If they weren't getting in the 1st team because we had a load of experienced players ahead of them then I fully agree, stick them in.

To gain tournement experience?

 

To get them used to seeing a semi final out after extra time?

 

To get them used to taking penalties in knock out stages?

 

To get them used to playing together as a group instead of being thrown in like a bunch of strangers at the next tournament?

 

Because playing wank arse friendlies against France and qualifiers against Montenegro will gain them no international experience or pedigree?

 

Because our best players might be better playing in a competition this summer instead travelling round the world playing in Asia?

 

Because other nations that win things send their kids and then coach and nurture them to survive competition football instead of sending players that will be playing for Watford In a few seasons?

 

Take your pick.

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Most of the Spanish/Italian/German teams are first teamers too....and many are captains.

 

This attitude is the reason we are crap.

I meant international 1st team regulars. How many of the Spain/Germany/Italian U21 teams play as part of the international 1st team (genuine question, I haven't followed the tournament so don't know who is playing for each of those).

 

If there are a number of their international 1st team players playing in this tournament then maybe there is something to making the likes of Sterling and Rashford play etc. However, for me when they are playing time after time for the international 1st team then it would seem a bit much to also make them go out and play for the 21s... effectively half of the 2 teams would be the same.

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I meant international 1st team regulars. How many of the Spain/Germany/Italian U21 teams play as part of the international 1st team (genuine question, I haven't followed the tournament so don't know who is playing for each of those).

 

If there are a number of their international 1st team players playing in this tournament then maybe there is something to making the likes of Sterling and Rashford play etc. However, for me when they are playing time after time for the international 1st team then it would seem a bit much to also make them go out and play for the 21s... effectively half of the 2 teams would be the same.

 

 

Loads of them, they are all pretty much big names in Italian/Spanish/German leagues, playing in European Comps too.

 

Many have already been transfered for massive fee's and one even linked witha 50 million move.

 

We throw young lads into the full team, then cavemen lower league fans start shouting "out of depth" as soon as they make a mistake....then player just loses all confidence.

Edited by Pablo
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Teams:

England: Loach; Cranie, Richards, Onuoha, Gibbs, Muamba, Cattermole; Noble, Milner, Adam Johnson, Walcott

 

Germany: Neuer; Beck, J. Boateng, Höwedes, Boenisch; Hummels; Johnson, Castro, Khedira, Özil; S. Wagner

 

 

Teams in 2009 v Germany in same comp.

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Loads of them, they are all pretty much big names in Italian/Spanish/German leagues, playing in European Comps too.

 

Many have already been transfered for massive fee's and one even linked witha 50 million move.

 

We throw young lads into the full team, then cavemen lower league fans start shouting "out of depth" as soon as they make a mistake....then player just loses all confidence.

Fair enough, like I said I haven't really watched the tournament (apart from the 2nd half yesterday) so genuinely didn't know the crossover of U21 and 1st teams in the other countries.

 

For what it's worth I'm not against any of them playing for the 21s just because they are playing for their club or have transferred for a massive amount of money, the comment was more aimed at players that play regularly for the England 1st team, some of which have 15/20 caps, then being asked to go and play in the U21 tournament too.

 

Next people will be complaining that young English players are burnt out.

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The Spanish striker was the tops scoring Spaniard in La Liga.....if he was English, we would be booing him in the first team already!!!

Or he'd be Harry Kane scoring regularly for the 1st team already.

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Fair enough, like I said I haven't really watched the tournament (apart from the 2nd half yesterday) so genuinely didn't know the crossover of U21 and 1st teams in the other countries.

 

For what it's worth I'm not against any of them playing for the 21s just because they are playing for their club or have transferred for a massive amount of money, the comment was more aimed at players that play regularly for the England 1st team, some of which have 15/20 caps, then being asked to go and play in the U21 tournament too.

 

Next people will be complaining that young English players are burnt out.

 

 

Also part of the problem, we play too many pointless friendlies...just to boost the cpas for some players.

 

We are in too much of rush with our kids, no rush.

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Or he'd be Harry Kane scoring regularly for the 1st team already.

 

 

More evidence of strikers/players doing nothing, as aposed to picking successfull ones......BUT Harry Kane played loads for U21 teams, so maybe he proves my point.

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Teams:

England: Loach; Cranie, Richards, Onuoha, Gibbs, Muamba, Cattermole; Noble, Milner, Adam Johnson, Walcott

 

Germany: Neuer; Beck, J. Boateng, Höwedes, Boenisch; Hummels; Johnson, Castro, Khedira, Özil; S. Wagner

 

 

Teams in 2009 v Germany in same comp.

Gonz I get your point and I agree with you but this kind of highlights my point.

 

Germany played these players in an U21 tournament because their 1st team was so strong. Not 1 of those players was in the Euro 2008 squad the year before, they didn't need to get these into the 1st team because they had a team full of world class experienced players.

 

If England were in that situation then I'd be all for sticking the likes of Sterling and Stones in these tournaments, £50m or no £50m price tag. Unfortunately we don't have that depth, we don't have the experienced players and therefore these players make up half of our 1st team and IMO therefore means they shouldn't also be expected to make up half of the U21 team too.

 

It's a bit of a vicious circle but maybe if the current crop of youngsters in the 1st team can hold down a place for the next 5+ years then it gives the next batch of youngsters more time to develop in the 21s before being shoved into the full squad.

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Something has to give, we cant keep rushing kids into Senior teams. We either chill out expectation so we can allow the next few gens to play in the younger ages....or we just carry on with what we are doing.

 

Also, getting to semi is masisve success imo, what gives us the right to think we can beat the Spain/Germany/Italy, they are used to winning.

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I meant international 1st team regulars. How many of the Spain/Germany/Italian U21 teams play as part of the international 1st team

 

Hardly any have many caps and ain't regulars.

 

Some good talent and some crazy talent like Asensio who'll be a future Ballon d'or nominee in the future, Italy goalkeeper gonna have a huge career too.

Edited by Didledee
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Teams:

England: Loach; Cranie, Richards, Onuoha, Gibbs, Muamba, Cattermole; Noble, Milner, Adam Johnson, Walcott

 

Germany: Neuer; Beck, J. Boateng, Höwedes, Boenisch; Hummels; Johnson, Castro, Khedira, Özil; S. Wagner

 

 

Teams in 2009 v Germany in same comp.

 

be interesting to know what our options were, i.e. who was left out, though I do completely agree, get the U21s playing - it's basically down to the experience and what that gives them be it physical or mental - half arsed friendlies won't bring them on

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Hardly any have many caps and ain't regulars.

 

Some good talent and some crazy talent like Asensio who'll be a future Ballon d'or nominee in the future, Italy goalkeeper gonna have a huge career too.

 

 

Diddley doo, many of the have a cap, or caps.

 

Spain

Marco Asensio (Real Madrid, 2 caps), Hector Bellerín (Arsenal, 3 caps), Gerard Deulofeu (Everton, 2 caps), Saúl Ñíguez (Atlético Madrid, 3 caps), Mikel Oyarzabal (Real Sociedad, 1 cap), Denis Suárez (Barcelona, 1 cap), Iñaki Williams (Athletic Club, 1 cap)

 

Italy

Federico Bernardeschi (Fiorentina, 9 caps), Gianluigi Donnarumma (AC Milan 4 caps), Roberto Gagliardini (Internazionale Milano, 2 caps), Andrea Petagna (Atalanta, 2 caps), Daniele Rugani (Juventus, 3 caps), Lorenzo Pellegrini (Sassuolo, 1 cap)

 

Germany

Maximilian Arnold (Wolfsburg, 1 cap), Yannick Gerhardt (Wolfsburg, 1 cap), Serge Gnabry (Werder Bremen*, 2 caps), Max Meyer (Schalke, 4 caps)

Edited by Pablo
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