Moderators Carlos Posted September 5, 2015 Moderators Share Posted September 5, 2015 There are fucking loads more people on the streets of Manchester recently. I've no idea why, I suspect that each and every one has their own story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) Oh well done you. What do you want a guard of honour?  You know nothing of the circumstances these people are in. You think travelling 1000's miles across land and sea for a better life for you and your family doesn't constitute "rolling your sleeves up"?  These people aren't think I best not go over there as some bloke might get upset on social media. They are running for their lives in chase of a better one.  You think they are taking the easy/greedy option? What would you do if you were one of these young men in their situation?  Excuse me if I'm wrong but haven't you yourself gone to other countries in search of work and prosperity??   This whole thing perplexes me  Do you know of their circumstances? Edited September 5, 2015 by boltondiver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 In answer to your question Boby I suspect the honest answer is a bit of both.  So I suppose the question then becomes - do you help out those in need knowing that in the process you'll inadvertently help some people who are taking the piss.  Or  Help nobody knowing that at least you'll not be helping those taking the piss but at the same time making people suffer who are in genuine need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgoefc Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) You think they are taking the easy/greedy option? What would you do if you were one of these young men in their situation? Â Excuse me if I'm wrong but haven't you yourself gone to other countries in search of work and prosperity?? Â If this were Britain in a civil war with isis and I was a healthy young man, I believe I would stay and fight. But maybe that aint the done thing anymore. Â I have worked abroad having applied to do so via the proper channels and with the correct paperwork. How the fuck that has owt to do with the argument that Britain opens its borders to whomever claims refugee status, having passed through a G7 country has me baffled. Edited September 5, 2015 by bgoefc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_spencer Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Can you imagine how overwhelmed Hungary would be if they all stayed there. I know the EU isn't popular amongst many on here, but as we are one of the wealthier nations in the organisation it is only fair we take our share. Â Painting these poor people as the enemy is massively wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 If this were Britain in a civil war with isis and I was a healthy young man, I believe I would stay and fight. But maybe that aint the done thing anymore. Â You might do - but you've actually got no idea as you have never been in a similar situation - nor are you likely to be. Â And it's not just as simple as the good guys vs ISIS as you well know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_spencer Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Aren't Isis using weapons we gave to bin laden to fight the ruskies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jturner Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 There are fucking loads more people on the streets of Manchester recently. I've no idea why, I suspect that each and every one has their own story. The Tories winning the election in May might have something to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no balls Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Can you imagine how overwhelmed Hungary would be if they all stayed there. I know the EU isn't popular amongst many on here, but as we are one of the wealthier nations in the organisation it is only fair we take our share. Painting these poor people as the enemy is massively wrong. Take our share? What does that mean? So because Germany have created an ill thought out open door policy to all comers we must too? Cameron has said we will take Syrians in UN camps, is that not us doing our bit in a much better way? We know those people are in genuine need of our help. None of us have any idea on the reasons why the masses are coming over to Europe, especially the young men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) If this were Britain in a civil war with isis and I was a healthy young man, I believe I would stay and fight. But maybe that aint the done thing anymore.  I have worked abroad having applied to do so via the proper channels and with the correct paperwork. How the fuck that has owt to do with the argument that Britain opens its borders to whomever claims refugee status, having passed through a G7 country has me baffled. Nobody is saying open it's borders. We just need to help out in humanitarian crisis. Just like ours and yours forefathers were helped. You lot spend all day slating the oppressive regime and backward Stone Age culture of Isis and the Middle East in general but then castigate those trying everything to get them and their familes out of there?  Nice one.  As a fit and healthy young man I'd like to think you'd do what's best for your family. Stay and fight a regime that is busy killing everything in its path or follow the promise of a better life in the back of an artctic lorry?  Stay and fight seems an easy option whilst quaffing coffee and scones sat in your loungewear listening to radio 4. Edited September 5, 2015 by gonzo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no balls Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) You lot spend all day slating the oppressive regime and backward Stone Age culture of Isis and the Middle East in general but then castigate those trying everything to get them and their familes out of there?. Hopefully we don't get them out of there to build more mosques to pray to a backward religion which feeds such problems. Â I've got sky news on and I am not seeing many families. They've even made a comment on this. Edited September 5, 2015 by no balls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 Hopefully we don't get them out of there to build more mosques to pray to a backward religion which feeds such problems. Â I've got sky news on and I am not seeing many families. They've even made a comment on this. Is this not just the same as Jewish settlers migrating across Europe during other hostilities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no balls Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) Is this not just the same as Jewish settlers migrating across Europe during other hostilities? Were the Jews resettling because other Jews were killing them? No, it's nothing like.  Edit: though I'm not convinced the majority of those on the move fled fearing for their lives. Edited September 5, 2015 by no balls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boby Brno Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 In answer to your question Boby I suspect the honest answer is a bit of both.  So I suppose the question then becomes - do you help out those in need knowing that in the process you'll inadvertently help some people who are taking the piss.  Or  Help nobody knowing that at least you'll not be helping those taking the piss but at the same time making people suffer who are in genuine need. Personally, I'd rather and do support a homeless charity that can effectively help the genuine needy. The same principle applies to the genuine refugees. Filter out the genuine needy from the economic migrants. Opening the borders to all as seems to be happening in Europe is encouraging more to take dangerous risks. This is a global problem that should be handled more effectively by the UN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomski Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Were the Jews resettling because other Jews were killing them? No, it's nothing like. Â Â Edit: though I'm not convinced the majority of those on the move fled fearing for their lives. Surely it shouldn't matter if your life is at risk what religion said persons follow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no balls Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Surely it shouldn't matter if your life is at risk what religion said persons follow? No it shouldn't but they should also look at what their religion is doing to their countries and their people so you should probably ask a Muslim that rather than an atheist. Gonzo was trying to equate the Jews being persecuted to the mess in Muslim countries, there is no comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whites man Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Qatar 0-0 Saudi Arabia UAE 0-0 Kuwait Oman 0-0 Bahrain  The numbers of Syrian refugees settled by these oil rich Arab states, figures from Amnesty International.  This is problem for humanity not just Northern European nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Carlos Posted September 5, 2015 Moderators Share Posted September 5, 2015 The Tories winning the election in May might have something to do with it. Yes, you've nailed it, blame the Tories. Like they are also to blame for everything in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Sudan et al. Â There are also more people on the streets of Lisbon. These are the only 2 cities I frequent, so I suspect it's a global, or at least European, problem. But yes, blame Cameron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no balls Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) Qatar 0-0 Saudi Arabia UAE 0-0 Kuwait Oman 0-0 Bahrain The numbers of Syrian refugees settled by these oil rich Arab states, figures from Amnesty International. This is problem for humanity not just Northern European nations. Are the Syrians not the wrong flavour of Muslim though? Countries need to stop being run on the basis of a fairy tales. Religious types need to stop persecuting others who don't believe the same or any of that shit. Maybe the world would be a better place and we'd not have to spend billions sorting the mess it's created out. Â Ask yourself, when was the last time it all went off because someone said dark matter didn't exist or a world war started because string theorists couldn't agree. Edited September 5, 2015 by no balls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgoefc Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 You might do - but you've actually got no idea as you have never been in a similar situation - nor are you likely to be.  And it's not just as simple as the good guys vs ISIS as you well know.  And so you know all about me too? wow!  It seems I am in the WW equivalent of this is you life today. Before that picture came out I believe the majority of Brits were of the pragmatic view.  Now anyone in your book that still holds the same opinion is a heartless cold bastard, bigot racist etc etc. This is what media led mass hysteria leads to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boby Brno Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Yes, you've nailed it, blame the Tories. Like they are also to blame for everything in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Sudan et al. Â There are also more people on the streets of Lisbon. These are the only 2 cities I frequent, so I suspect it's a global, or at least European, problem. But yes, blame Cameron. Add Prague to that list and Berlin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgoefc Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) Nobody is saying open it's borders. We just need to help out in humanitarian crisis. Just like ours and yours forefathers were helped. Â You lot spend all day slating the oppressive regime and backward Stone Age culture of Isis and the Middle East in general but then castigate those trying everything to get them and their familes out of there? Â Nice one. Â As a fit and healthy young man I'd like to think you'd do what's best for your family. Stay and fight a regime that is busy killing everything in its path or follow the promise of a better life in the back of an artctic lorry? Â Stay and fight seems an easy option whilst quaffing coffee and scones sat in your loungewear listening to radio 4. Â Radio 4? The station of choice of the Islington intelligentsia! Now thats a low blow! Â I'm gonna leave it there for now. As I said above, one picture is not going to change my view. We will have to agree to disagree. Â I'm off the Lytham in an hour for a mates bbq, hows the weather over there and have the pavements been cleaned today? Edited September 5, 2015 by bgoefc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 And so you know all about me too? wow! It seems I am in the WW equivalent of this is you life today. Before that picture came out I believe the majority of Brits were of the pragmatic view. Â Now anyone in your book that still holds the same opinion is a heartless cold bastard, bigot racist etc etc. This is what media led mass hysteria leads to. Not really - I'm just chewing the fat on a forum about the issue of the day. And my opinion on asylum seekers hasn't changed for quite some time. It certainly hasn't been influenced by the picture the other day - horrid as it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underpants Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) Hardly touched this thread. So apologise if already covered. If some twats was going to chop my head off, and no one was going to help me. Then I would want to get as far away as possible. I wouldn't go to my next door neighbour. I would be heading to Buckingham Palace. Edited September 5, 2015 by Underpants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatanGreavsie Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Are the Syrians not the wrong flavour of Muslim though? Countries need to stop being run on the basis of a fairy tales. Religious types need to stop persecuting others who don't believe the same or any of that shit. Maybe the world would be a better place and we'd not have to spend billions sorting the mess it's created out.  Ask yourself, when was the last time it all went off because someone said dark matter didn't exist or a world war started because string theorists couldn't agree.  Fairy tales come in many guises - Nazi Aryanism being one. Fall foul of any of them and you're fucked, no matter how hard you work, what your qualifications are etc etc. Any of us living here with opportunities and stability are doing so purely by the good grace of chance. And to be part of a continent that has a boat load of people locked below decks after fire has broken out and are  thus travelling amid their own suppurating burns, or are suffocated to death in the back of a Commer van on a layby on some obscure Austrian motorway, shames us all, no matter what the motive of the victims. How those simplistic platitudes get translated into real action I don't know, but my ignorance renders them no less true. Oh and in the case of theoretical physics, well we (the UK) spent £0.5Bn on the Large Hadron Collider - for all the glory of the truths it reveals, in the end they'll mean cock-all to anyone in a realistic sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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