41 minutes ago, Zog1 said:

Joey O'Brien

Aaron Mooy

Aaron Ramsdale

All had ok Premier League careers. 

im fairly sure we got two of them at age 16

the other left at 12

you're hardly making  great case for our youth development with those 3

5 hours ago, Zico said:

I had it as £1.5m in my head but this says he went for £2.5m

Bo to sign as Arnar goes | The Bolton News https://share.google/pS6rMdbhhS0ZfANRh

Which is funny because I also found this that says we were expecting a £3.5m bid 

£3.5m bid for Arnar? | The Bolton News https://share.google/xniXoew3XtN7qRjcW

 

 

maybe they bid £3.5m and we negotiated it down to £2.5m

11 minutes ago, wakey said:

maybe they bid £3.5m and we negotiated it down to £2.5m

reminds me of the story when Seth Johnson signed for Leeds from Derby, when Ridsdale was in charge and spunking cash all over the place

he was on 5k a week at Derby

his agent reckoned he could get him up to 10k or so

they sat down and Ridsdale said, let's not mess about here and get straight to the point, it's 30k a week and no higher

they left with 37k a week

43 minutes ago, Casino said:

im fairly sure we got two of them at age 16

the other left at 12

you're hardly making  great case for our youth development with those 3

I think its more of a case that it was working in terms of getting talented players in, what we seemingly lacked was a talent recognition at that next step in the bridge between the academy and the first team.

Players like Matthew Cassidy and Nathan Woolfe getting a few first team appearances (opportunities to prove themselves) who've gone on to do very little vs players who were around the academy at that same time couldnt get near the team.

Edited July 8, 20251 yr by Zog1

1 hour ago, Zico said:

reminds me of the story when Seth Johnson signed for Leeds from Derby, when Ridsdale was in charge and spunking cash all over the place

he was on 5k a week at Derby

his agent reckoned he could get him up to 10k or so

they sat down and Ridsdale said, let's not mess about here and get straight to the point, it's 30k a week and no higher

they left with 37k a week

Unbelievable.  He played 54 games in 4 years and Leeds were relegated, so money well spent.  He sat on his backside for a year when they were in the championship to avoid triggering transfer fee add on's.

3 hours ago, Zog1 said:

Joey O'Brien

Aaron Mooy

Aaron Ramsdale

All had ok Premier League careers. 

 

That's still five in 20 years, a couple more if you add in Danny Ward and Chris Basham. But barely a significant contribution for us between them - less than 100 games between the lot.

History would suggest it's a massive longshot that if we're a Championship club in the next five years, we'll have Academy products featuring regularly. 

 

Exactly

And tbf its a massive ask, especially where we are located

Get abybody decent and its likely theyll get picked off way before they get in the team

 

9 hours ago, Tombwfc said:

 

You know more about this than most, but as mentioned we've probably only had 2/3 Championship quality players come through the Academy in 20 years (Holding, Bartley... any others?). It's a big shout that the same number are in the current U18s lot.

They likely all arent. But long term if we get a decent pathway it will improve the chances of having some homegrown talent in the team and ultimately sold on to help the club grow.

Probably helps if the academy director can be trusted, too?

Training ground guru produces an academy productivity table every year. It used to be free to access but isn't anymore. We're 35th from the lastest free data (2023). We were about 20th a few years ago.

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 20251 yr by peelyfeet

47 minutes ago, Casino said:

Exactly

And tbf its a massive ask, especially where we are located

Get abybody decent and its likely theyll get picked off way before they get in the team

 

Depends on the mentality of the directors. From signing at 9 until 16, it's illegal for a club to approach a signed  player, they have to go through the club. If the club don't have a desire or need to sell, the player never finds out anout the interest most of the time. So they can hold onto players to see if the value grows.

Hope we’re better than Wigan at taking on lads from the bigger clubs in future.

Hughes, Aasgaard and Lang all came from Liverpool/Everton in their teenage years. Sold for combined fees of up to £10m. 

7 minutes ago, BWFC_LOVE said:

Hope we’re better than Wigan at taking on lads from the bigger clubs in future.

Hughes, Aasgaard and Lang all came from Liverpool/Everton in their teenage years. Sold for combined fees of up to £10m. 

Rice and Smith are from Everton. Wigan academy has been on the wane since the Whelans left 

47 minutes ago, peelyfeet said:

Training ground guru produces an academy productivity table every year. It used to be free to access but isn't anymore. We're 35th from the lastest free data (2023). We were about 20th a few years ago.

 

 

 

Bit more detail

 

1 minute ago, peelyfeet said:

Bit more detail

 

Just now, Cheese said:

Get yer readers on

3 hours ago, Tombwfc said:

 

That's still five in 20 years, a couple more if you add in Danny Ward and Chris Basham. But barely a significant contribution for us between them - less than 100 games between the lot.

History would suggest it's a massive longshot that if we're a Championship club in the next five years, we'll have Academy products featuring regularly. 

 

Danny Ward, Ashley Fletcher, Chris Basham, Aaron Mooy, Luca Connell, Josh Vela, Rob Holding, Joey O'Brien, Aaron Ramsdale, Zach Clough, Nat Phillips.

There has to be £100 million in value there at their peaks

If we can just get 1 decent one every 2-4 years that's enough on top of the 1, maybe 2 that would drop down to league 1 and 2 for a few 100k every year. Combine that with the signings we've made and while i agree it isn't amazing it might be enough to approach keeping our heads above water. 

 

Edited July 8, 20251 yr by Zog1

4 minutes ago, Zog1 said:

Danny Ward, Ashley Fletcher, Chris Basham, Aaron Mooy, Luca Connell, Josh Vela, Rob Holding, Joey O'Brien, Aaron Ramsdale, Zach Clough

There has to be £100 million in value there at their peaks

If we can just get 1 decent one every 2-4 years that's enough on top of the 1, maybe 2 that would drop down to league 1 and 2 for a few 100k every year. Combine that with the signings we've made and while i agree it isn't amazing it might be enough to approach keeping our heads above water. 

 

You're going to have to break down this £100m for me

You listed 10 players so averaging £10m each

And you've got Vela in the list

6 minutes ago, Zico said:

You're going to have to break down this £100m for me

You listed 10 players so averaging £10m each

And you've got Vela in the list

He's probably been a bit ambitious, and hard really to quantify some of them as they didn't get moves in their peaks, but Fletcher was sold for £7.5m at one point, Mooy moved for £10m, Holding had teams nearly spending £20m, Ramsdale has moved for total fees of around £70m the last few years. 

11 hours ago, Zico said:

Who was shite and wasted under Megson for two seasons, came good under Coyle getting double figures for the season but was too late as his contract ran out and he left on a free

Not every winger can convert to being a striker like Thierry Henry did - and Elmander was always a wide man before and after us but for some reason he was hyped as a goal scoring striker - which was bullshit.

2 minutes ago, meanderson93 said:

Ramsdale has moved for total fees of around £70m the last few years. 

You cant keep selling him

Plus, hes a really, really shit example

 

2 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

Not every winger can convert to being a striker like Thierry Henry did - and Elmander was always a wide man before and after us but for some reason he was hyped as a goal scoring striker - which was bullshit.

Elmander was never a winger, I don't think he ever even drifted wider than the penalty area. He was absolutely a striker, just a shit one. 

Just now, Zico said:

You're going to have to break down this £100m for me

You listed 10 players so averaging £10m each

And you've got Vela in the list

I'm giving Rob Holding and Aaron Mooy £20 million each as they were both regular Premier League players. Danny Ward at his peak in the Premier League maybe £10 million.

Aaron Ramsdale -£30 million for Arsenal 

Ashley Fletcher - £6.5 million

Maybe £3-5 million each for the rest of them

Dont forget how crazy the values got up there after we got relegated. 

 

10 hours ago, frank_spencer said:

I'd say he's had the most successful career of any of our academy graduates.

Way behind Dzmaili who Allardyce sold at a loss but later Fenerbahce paid Torino 9.5 million for his services

Edited July 8, 20251 yr by Wanderlust

Just now, Wanderlust said:

Way behind Dzmaili

Wtf