Politics

[miamiwhite]

8 hours ago, Bertie said:

Should go down very well on here. Most normal folk just want to get on with other normal folk and live a normal life. Sadly there are nutters and bigots on the planet who make this difficult.

I agree, though I guarantee it won't when normal Iranians and normal Israelis become friendly.

[bolty58]

10 hours ago, Bertie said:

Almost 😂.

Trumpy is himself one of those nutters and bigots.

(I’m normal of course, as I think you know deep down 😉 🤪)

If you're normal I don't want to be.

Gaviscon addict? Fuck that.

[Dimron]

Turning and turning in the widening gyre   

The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere   

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst   

Are full of passionate intensity.

 

Surely some revelation is at hand;

Surely the Second Coming is at hand.   

The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out   

When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi

Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert   

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,   

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,   

Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it   

Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.   

The darkness drops again; but now I know   

That twenty centuries of stony sleep

Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,   

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,   

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

[Cheese]

9 minutes ago, Dimron said:

Turning and turning in the widening gyre   

The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere   

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst   

Are full of passionate intensity.

 

Surely some revelation is at hand;

Surely the Second Coming is at hand.   

The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out   

When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi

Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert   

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,   

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,   

Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it   

Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.   

The darkness drops again; but now I know   

That twenty centuries of stony sleep

Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,   

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,   

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

 

[Dimron]

13 minutes ago, Cheese said:

 

The Observer this morning postulated we have come to the point of the "Yeats Test".

I tend to agree, please take half an hour and study the words

[Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Dimron said:

The Observer this morning postulated we have come to the point of the "Yeats Test".

I tend to agree, please take half an hour and study the words

Please post a link to the Observer article.

[Dimron]

2 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Please post a link to the Observer article.

I read it in a printed newspaper, its probably on line... "Thihgs Fall Apart"

Today's paper is a mass of essays under the banner of "World Without Rules" ... it will keep me entertained all next week.

They reckoned the Second Coming was one of the most recognisable poems in the English Language but I'm unconvinced.... Not read it again since Mr Shaw at school  made me 🙂

[Spider]

On 12/04/2025 at 02:38, bolty58 said:

...and not just Le Pen. Wilders, Meloni, Orban, Farage. Wake up and smell the English Breakfast.

We'll be coming down the road.

I remain hopeful that Le Pen will not be the future of Europe. I hope that she will destroy the future of the European Union.

Death to big, overbearing governance.

I see one of your darlings Meloni is sticking it to Trump.

One happy family over on the right eh?

 

[boltonboris]

America’s going to end up in an axis with Russia and China aren’t they. 

[Dimron]

Just now, boltonboris said:

America’s going to end up in an axis with Russia and China aren’t they. 

Yes

Where wiĺl the UK position itself?

[Spider]

8 minutes ago, Dimron said:

Yes

Where wiĺl the UK position itself?

Thanks to Brexit, we have secure borders, loads of money and limitless influence.

We’ll do whatever the fuck we want

[Winchester White]

2 minutes ago, Dimron said:

Yes

Where wiĺl the UK position itself?

No because Russia is nowhere near as powerful as you want it to be. Without nukes Russia is pathetic and outdated, as we can all observe.

China is the next Uber superpower because the west has been so fucking stupid as to hand it to them on a plate.

China could also take over most of east Russia and Taiwan in a heartbeat.

India will get more powerful and influential no doubt over the next decade too.

[kent_white]

55 minutes ago, Spider said:

I see one of your darlings Meloni is sticking it to Trump.

One happy family over on the right eh?

 

At least someone has some balls. Figuratively speaking of course. 

[kent_white]

39 minutes ago, Dimron said:

Yes

Where wiĺl the UK position itself?

Floating in the middle of the Atlantic and cut off from all its traditional allies probably. Woohoo! 😁

[Spider]

1 hour ago, kent_white said:

At least someone has some balls. Figuratively speaking of course. 

Bolty will disown her now and say she doesn’t ride the correct type of kitchen appliance at the weekend or summert 

[bolty58]

4 hours ago, kent_white said:

Floating in the middle of the Atlantic and cut off from all its traditional allies probably. Woohoo! 😁

Those would be the ones we have saved/rescued/liberated now and again would they?

The one that matters is across the pond. Blind Freddie and all that.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

11 hours ago, Spider said:

Thanks to this government, we have secure borders, loads of money and limitless influence.

We’ll do whatever the fuck we want

 

[kent_white]

7 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Those would be the ones we have saved/rescued/liberated now and again would they?

The one that matters is across the pond. Blind Freddie and all that.

Yes - and we're cut off from both of them now aren't we? We've basically zero influence over the US. Very little over the EU and have also of course lost our veto. 

So in Trump's card holding terminology (and the pre Brexit ones) - which cards to wear actually hold any longer? 

We've been sidelined and barring our nukes (which in hindsight you were probably right to argue to hold onto due to this black swan event) - I'm not sure where we sit as a country right now? 

Presumably you'd align us as far as possible with the US - and give up on Europe altogether? If you were forced to pick a path.

[bolty58]

56 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Presumably you'd align us as far as possible with the US - and give up on Europe altogether? If you were forced to pick a path.

Full marks for observation. Yes, with great big bells on as far as alignment with our biggest ally goes. Y'know, the ones with which we saved Europe from life under the jackboot heel.

Love the individual countries of Europe in the main. No time whatsoever for a federalised Europe.

 

[kent_white]

25 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Full marks for observation. Yes, with great big bells on as far as alignment with our biggest ally goes. Y'know, the ones with which we saved Europe from life under the jackboot heel.

Love the individual countries of Europe in the main. No time whatsoever for a federalised Europe.

 

I can see another referendum coming on. Or at least a GE where were essentially making that choice as a country. 

I think we'd probably side with the US on this one right now too. 

[Duck Egg]

2 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Full marks for observation. Yes, with great big bells on as far as alignment with our biggest ally goes. Y'know, the ones with which we saved Europe from life under the jackboot heel.

You do know the Americans don't see it like that, dont you?

To them, we were bailed out as well after getting our arses kicked at Dunkirk and SE Asia.  It was the Russians> The US> and then allied Europe that got rid of the jack boot heel you're referring to. 

[Spider]

Sadiq Khan is having a good day.

[Bertie]

3 hours ago, kent_white said:

I can see another referendum coming on. Or at least a GE where were essentially making that choice as a country. 

I think we'd probably side with the US on this one right now too. 

9/10 I think you’d be right, if push came to shove. I certainly would be.

Atm though I suspect the majority of folks wouldn’t, due to you-know-who in the Whitehouse.

[kent_white]

1 minute ago, Bertie said:

9/10 I think you’d be right, if push came to shove. I certainly would be.

Atm though I suspect the majority of folks wouldn’t, due to you-know-who in the Whitehouse.

I think he's the bulldozer behind the project isn't he. I imagine they will get away with as much as they can manage in the next 2 years. It'll take decades to fix legally and they'll understand this. 

So even if they do lose the next election - they've got people in all the right places. And I think it's quite a low possibility that there will be a peaceful transfer of power. 

While we were part of the EU - I'd have stuck with the block. We had a bit of power then. Now we're out - ordinarily my instinct would also be to side with the Americans. But I just don't understand their agenda anymore. And I don't think they consider us on their plans whatsoever. We're flotsam and jetsam to the Americans now I think. 

A 'nice to have' as opposed to a 'crucial to be working in partnership with'. I suppose we've had a few concessions with tariffs etc. But let's not kid ourselves about our position in the world. In my opinion - I can't think of any time in my lifetime when we've had less influence geo-politically. Can you? 

There isn't an obvious 'next step' for us as a country sadly that I can see, sadly. We're a medium level power and need to pick our battles. 

[Bertie]

26 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I think he's the bulldozer behind the project isn't he. I imagine they will get away with as much as they can manage in the next 2 years. It'll take decades to fix legally and they'll understand this. 

So even if they do lose the next election - they've got people in all the right places. And I think it's quite a low possibility that there will be a peaceful transfer of power. 

While we were part of the EU - I'd have stuck with the block. We had a bit of power then. Now we're out - ordinarily my instinct would also be to side with the Americans. But I just don't understand their agenda anymore. And I don't think they consider us on their plans whatsoever. We're flotsam and jetsam to the Americans now I think. 

A 'nice to have' as opposed to a 'crucial to be working in partnership with'. I suppose we've had a few concessions with tariffs etc. But let's not kid ourselves about our position in the world. In my opinion - I can't think of any time in my lifetime when we've had less influence geo-politically. Can you? 

There isn't an obvious 'next step' for us as a country sadly that I can see, sadly. We're a medium level power and need to pick our battles. 

Spot on. The “special relationship” was increasing tenuous I think, and Trumpy’s lot certainly don’t give two shineys about it.

We are in a pickle internationally.

So far I think Starmer for all his woes at home has played a blinder to get closer to Europe (for the right reasons) yet not become too distant from the US (for the right reasons). Not sure how much longer he can continue to tap dance though, without picking a side.

I was always pro-US, pro-Brexit. Massive dilemma when I’m anti-Trump!

Edited January 12 by Bertie