Guest Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 23 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: I don’t think many votes for the status quo because of fear, most realised the country is an infinitely better place now then when we joined the EU in the 1970’s, on most of not all metrics Plenty of fear involved in making people vote leave, I recall leavers on here adamant that Turkey were joining the EU on 2016 and Millions of Turks would be coming here soon after in some sort of invasion Lets not forget the hysteria around pencils in the polling booths, leavers taking pens because they believed a government conspiracy- if that’s not fear then I don’t know what is Not fear, but hoodwinked over many years of EU membership Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamiwhite Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 I see the main man at Aston Martin isn’t worried by a no deal Brexit. But hey, who’s he to quote it when we’ve got ST Goebbels and his propaganda Wake up mate, you need to have a proper gander at the wider world and opportunities out there’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 2 hours ago, miamiwhite said: I see the main man at Aston Martin isn’t worried by a no deal Brexit. But hey, who’s he to quote it when we’ve got ST Goebbels and his propaganda Wake up mate, you need to have a proper gander at the wider world and opportunities out there’s. Isn't worried is a bit strong! “First and foremost I think we now need certainty. I think business was pretty clear that it would prefer a deal with free trade with Europe, and it is true we are looking at a cliff-edge without one, but at this stage a decision is better than no decision. “It’s not great, but we have modelled No Deal and run the scenarios. What we find harder to work with is goalposts that keep moving every six months. We need an outcome, and the truth is that we have debated our negotiating tactics in public, while the EU27 have worked with consensus and executed their negotiations brilliantly. Our Brexit strategy has been laughable.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 3 hours ago, boltondiver said: I think it is understandable that people can't easily distinguish "fear" from "reality" after the rubbish put out by the government and related bodies before the referendum. I'm sure you'd agree. How many voters were hoodwinked, do you think? How many were hoodwinked to vote remain, do you think? Voters at the time thought they were being told the truth on both sides but as the Mr Cummings (head of Vote Leave) admitted their lies won the day for them. Vote Leave were better liars if you prefer it described that way but the reality of those Vote Leave lies are laid bare for everyone to see today moreso than the remain side. I'd say Vote Leave's 'better lies' managed to convince several million to support them and on the face of it why wouldn't you? You can have the best of both worlds according to Johnson, still having access to the single market yet out of the EU. Dr Fox telling us all that negotiating trade deals will be the easiest thing in the world and we can fund our NHS with an extra £350m a week, quite a compelling set of lies, don't you think? And that was just a few of the many lies! We are now facing into the abyss and the real prospect of leaving without a deal which undoubtedly will cost people their jobs. Our country will be poorer as a result and it will take us two generations, if ever, to rebuild our economy to where it would be if we had not left. This will be the biggest act of economic self harm by any country... ever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: Voters at the time thought they were being told the truth on both sides but as the Mr Cummings (head of Vote Leave) admitted their lies won the day for them. Vote Leave were better liars if you prefer it described that way but the reality of those Vote Leave lies are laid bare for everyone to see today moreso than the remain side. I'd say Vote Leave's 'better lies' managed to convince several million to support them and on the face of it why wouldn't you? You can have the best of both worlds according to Johnson, still having access to the single market yet out of the EU. Dr Fox telling us all that negotiating trade deals will be the easiest thing in the world and we can fund our NHS with an extra £350m a week, quite a compelling set of lies, don't you think? And that was just a few of the many lies! We are now facing into the abyss and the real prospect of leaving without a deal which undoubtedly will cost people their jobs. Our country will be poorer as a result and it will take us two generations, if ever, to rebuild our economy to where it would be if we had not left. This will be the biggest act of economic self harm by any country... ever! Never hear such tripe in my life, several million😂🤣😂 abyss 😂🤣😂 two generations to recover 😂🤣😂hook line sinker. Edited July 12, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted July 12, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2019 An interesting last paragraph. Must of the criticism towards the government and leave minded individuals is a so called lack of a plan. As was stated earlier in all this was that you don't go revealing your plan to all and sundry before starting negotiations. That's was I find frustrating; having stood on leave manifestoes, MPs seem to have taken opportunity to play politics with it- that's MPs from all viewpoints. As such too much ends up thrown open into the media which inevitably makes discussion with the EU more difficult. I don't go for the suggestion that TM has deliberately created this situation, but I do believe her approach has led us to where we are now. A quieter, more cohesive strategy may have helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 2 hours ago, boltondiver said: Not fear, but hoodwinked over many years of EU membership When you read about the chaos that is ensuing with just the US and Canada trade negotiations, never mind the rest of the world, don't you honestly think to yourself this isn't going as well as i thought it would do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said: Never hear such tripe in my life, hook line sinker. How can you hear with your fingers in your ears?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Salford Trotter said: How can you hear with your fingers in your ears?? You’re the ultimate drama queen. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said: You’re the ultimate drama queen. 😂 So when you said this whole brexit malarkey would be a piece of piss i should have believed you? Out of the EU on 30th March with a WA tucked away and with a string of countries, including the EU, queuing up to sign lucrative free trade deals you said, how wrong you were! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: So when you said this whole brexit malarkey would be a piece of piss i should have believed you? Out of the EU on 30th March with a WA tucked away and with a string of countries, including the EU, queuing up to sign lucrative free trade deals you said, how wrong you were! I think you are confusing me with someone else, never said it would be a piece of piss, certainly when you take into account the amount of MPs and high profile remainers who have thwarted the process from day 1, without their input we’d of left by now, it seems that we are finally going in the right direction, by choosing a leave PM, one who will hopefully have the balls to take a no deal to the wire or even further, otherwise we won’t get the best deal. (This as I’ve said is key to leaving with the best possible deal since day 1) Edited July 12, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: I think you are confusing me with someone else, never said it would be a piece of piss, certainly when you take into account the amount of MPs and high profile remainers who have thwarted the process from day 1, without their input we’d of left by now, it seems that we are finally going in the right direction, by choosing a leave PM, one who will hopefully have the balls to take a no deal to the wire or even further, otherwise we won’t get the best deal. (This as I’ve said is key to leaving with the best possible deal since day 1) You change your position more often that the wind mate, it's difficult to keep up at times. It's like playing hokey cokey debating with you, one minute we're getting a WA and a fabulous FTA with the EU because it's in their interests to do so and the next we should be taking this to the wire and leave without a deal... Fuck em, that'll teach them to mess with the UK! 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: You change your position more often that the wind mate, it's difficult to keep up at times. It's like playing hokey cokey debating with you, one minute we're getting a WA and a fabulous FTA with the EU because it's in their interests to do so and the next we should be taking this to the wire and leave without a deal... Fuck em, that'll teach them to mess with the UK! 😂 So you keep saying, although it’s not true , the fact is I’ve kept same position from day 1. Edited July 12, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said: So you keep saying although it’s not true , the fact is I’ve kept same position from day 1. You have said that your position is that we will not leave without a deal, has that changed now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: You have said that your position is that we will not leave without a deal, has that changed now? We must use that threat to get the best deal, that was always going to be the case. I fully expect a deal to be forthcoming and it’ll be a better if we embrace leaving without a deal and make that plainly obvious to the EU. Sadly remainers will skrike and scream and that might lead to not getting the best deal, and all because they’ll be able to say we told you so. Edited July 12, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: We must use that threat to get the best deal, that was always going to be the case. I fully expect a deal to be forthcoming and it’ll be a better if we embrace leaving without a deal and make that plainly obvious to the EU. Sadly remainers will skrike and scream and that might lead to not getting the best deal, and all because they’ll be able to say we told you so. Brexiteers will be running the country. Everything every single thing will be 100% on you and your kind. If its a disaster then make all the excuses you like. But everyone will know who is at fault. And we won't let you weasel away like cowards either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Salford Trotter said: When you read about the chaos that is ensuing with just the US and Canada trade negotiations, never mind the rest of the world, don't you honestly think to yourself this isn't going as well as i thought it would do? No, I think I recall saying it would be a rocky road. A worthwhile rocky road, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 16 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: We must use that threat to get the best deal, that was always going to be the case. I fully expect a deal to be forthcoming and it’ll be a better if we embrace leaving without a deal and make that plainly obvious to the EU. Sadly remainers will skrike and scream and that might lead to not getting the best deal, and all because they’ll be able to say we told you so. So if we don't get the perfect deal it will all be the remainers fault? Nothing to do with how poorly we have managed this whole process? Nothing to do with how well the EU have negotiated their position? Nothing to do with the fact leaving the EU was always going to make us poorer? Anyway, get back to sticking your fingers in your ears mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, boltondiver said: No, I think I recall saying it would be a rocky road. A worthwhile rocky road, though. A suitably vague answer to my question. So, how rocky does the road need to get to before it's not worthwhile? How long shall we expect the rockiness to last for before it's not worthwhile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: A suitably vague answer to my question. So, how rocky does the road need to get to before it's not worthwhile? How long shall we expect the rockiness to last for before it's not worthwhile? It is worthwhile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 minute ago, boltondiver said: It is worthwhile This is the sort of mantra the Nazis had. Suffer for the greater good of Germany. How many people dying is too many for Brexit to be worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 minute ago, boltondiver said: It is worthwhile so a similar "tough shit, get on with it" response that Mounts always comes out with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 56 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: So if we don't get the perfect deal it will all be the remainers fault? Nothing to do with how poorly we have managed this whole process? Nothing to do with how well the EU have negotiated their position? Nothing to do with the fact leaving the EU was always going to make us poorer? Anyway, get back to sticking your fingers in your ears mate Everything to do with remainers negotiating the deal up to present, remainers entirely at fault for where we are today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 47 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: This is the sort of mantra the Nazis had. Suffer for the greater good of Germany. How many people dying is too many for Brexit to be worth it? Another drama queen.... Nazis😂 folk dying😂🤣😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Another drama queen.... Nazis😂 folk dying😂🤣😂 People die in recessions. People also die if they can't get the medicines required. Both of those things are possible. You can argue they "won't happen" but then we're being told "a rocky road is worth Brexit". So I'm asking if those things happen and people die - how many deaths is Brexit worth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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