7 minutes ago, kent_white said:

It's really hard to compare death rates in different countries. Having a cursory glance at it and making a judgment is daft. 

Things like population density and average age have a huge bearing on the outcome - so it's not like for like.

The UK has got one of the highest population densities in Europe - there's only really Belgium and Holland with less space between people.

 

Kent what’s your views on numerous reports (all be it social media) that people are having cause of death on their death certificate as CV—19 even though the deceased wasn’t tested and had Shown no symptoms. 

Edited April 19, 20206 yr by royal white

For those who want to see the science upon which the government have based their actions

https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-sage

 

20 minutes ago, royal white said:

Kent what’s your views on numerous reports (all be it social media) that people are having cause of death on their death certificate as CV—19 even though the deceased wasn’t tested and had Shown no symptoms. 

I don't really know enough about it to comment if I'm honest. I suppose it's plausible in the confusion.

Usually when somebody dies - we've got a pretty good understanding of why it happened and if not - it would go to a coroner.

The problem is that there are so many people dying at the moment that the coroner wouldn't be able to cope. 

So sadly - I think if a 90 year old was admitted to A&E with breathing difficulties - but died before they were able to do a swab, then they might have been instructed to record COVID as the most likely cause of death. I doubt they'd do it with someone who had absolutely no symptoms though? 

Lot of bollocks doing the rounds o  Facebook at moment though. Seems like the goodwill has started to run low and the conspiracies have begun!

2 hours ago, boltondiver said:

Isn’t our spending a lot higher than some others who have been “successful “ so far, such as South Korea?

The tired, socialist, way, of just saying we don’t spend enough. Sigh.

You're either a socialist or a snowflake if you criticise the Tories on here

Money aside- the biggest issue initially appears to be attending the relevant meetings & taking this seriously. Shame Bojo couldn't get the basics right. 

His incompetency has been been highlighted by many who've worked with him in the past. Including Gove. Thank fuck there's some in that cabinet who've stepped up to it when we most needed it.

You're right though- it isn't all about spending. But since 2015 you can find two examples of austerity directly affecting the amount of PPE we decided to store & how we responded in a pandemic test drill.

23 minutes ago, kent_white said:

It's really hard to compare death rates in different countries. Having a cursory glance at it and making a judgment is daft. 

Things like population density and average age have a huge bearing on the outcome - so it's not like for like.

The UK has got one of the highest population densities in Europe - there's only really Belgium and Holland with less space between people.

 

Of course there are multiple factors, but deaths per population is being used as one of the main variables by the analysts because it's a simple way to compare how its affecting different areas, and how  the local or national government strategy works on a set number of people. Without taking populationinto account how could we do that more accurately?

Obviously you take into account countries with very large and very small populations as outliers, but if it's being used to look at western countries with similar life expectancy and economies, it's one of the best methods we have in my opinion

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

I don't really know enough about it to comment if I'm honest. I suppose it's plausible in the confusion.

Usually when somebody dies - we've got a pretty good understanding of why it happened and if not - it would go to a coroner.

The problem is that there are so many people dying at the moment that the coroner wouldn't be able to cope. 

So sadly - I think if a 90 year old was admitted to A&E with breathing difficulties - but died before they were able to do a swab, then they might have been instructed to record COVID as the most likely cause of death. I doubt they'd do it with someone who had absolutely no symptoms though? 

Lot of bollocks doing the rounds o  Facebook at moment though. Seems like the goodwill has started to run low and the conspiracies have begun!

That was my thought. 
this is one I came across earlier.
 

My friends mother in Law died of a heart attack last week. The death certificate came back she died of Covid 19. 
He phoned up and said he wanted it change to heart attack he was told  I know it's wrong but we have been told to do this and theres nothing I can do about it.
If the Virus is what they say it is you wouldn't need to falsify any document's.
Does anyone reading this think this is what the NHS should do?

In the comments it said she had no symptoms and wasn’t tested. Probably Just someone bored working on their next conspiracy 

5 minutes ago, royal white said:

That was my thought. 
this is one I came across earlier.
 

My friends mother in Law died of a heart attack last week. The death certificate came back she died of Covid 19. 
He phoned up and said he wanted it change to heart attack he was told  I know it's wrong but we have been told to do this and theres nothing I can do about it.
If the Virus is what they say it is you wouldn't need to falsify any document's.
Does anyone reading this think this is what the NHS should do?

In the comments it said she had no symptoms and wasn’t tested. Probably Just someone bored working on their next conspiracy 

Some NHS trusts are advising doctors to not put Covid down too, so works both ways

18 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

You're either a socialist or a snowflake if you criticise the Tories on here

Money aside- the biggest issue initially appears to be attending the relevant meetings & taking this seriously. Shame Bojo couldn't get the basics right. 

His incompetency has been been highlighted by many who've worked with him in the past. Including Gove. Thank fuck there's some in that cabinet who've stepped up to it when we most needed it.

You're right though- it isn't all about spending. But since 2015 you can find two examples of austerity directly affecting the amount of PPE we decided to store & how we responded in a pandemic test drill.

If it isn’t about spending; why did you bring it up?

Compare the preparedness and health spend of the UK and South Korea; it isn’t about spend.

It also is based on an assumption that we are losing in this, when we have a year to go, which seems a bit strange to me.

Your political views are becoming clearer and less neutral than you claimed at outset.

As I said earlier, you should be happy that the economy has collapsed, as it is bang in line with the stated aims of the Extinction people.

 

Edited April 19, 20206 yr by boltondiver

Pity we haven’t got scientists questioning the presenters; the media are hopeless.

Time to pack the questions in now 

they only need to come out when there’s something to tell 

8 minutes ago, radcliffewhite1 said:

Time to pack the questions in now 

they only need to come out when there’s something to tell 

I agree, an update every two or three days should suffice, no need for the same dribble every day

3 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I agree, an update every two or three days should suffice, no need for the same dribble every day

Plus if they’re put on the spot with a hot question it’s dismissed

it should be called “we are led by the science” briefing (it’s not a dig btw) 

hopefully we are on the home straight now just brief us when there’s exit plans 
 

 

 

1 hour ago, kent_white said:

It was treated as a valuable resource by the incumbent - who continued its funding as a precaution against the inevitable pandemic?

not even close 🙂

40 minutes ago, royal white said:

That was my thought. 
this is one I came across earlier.
 

My friends mother in Law died of a heart attack last week. The death certificate came back she died of Covid 19. 
He phoned up and said he wanted it change to heart attack he was told  I know it's wrong but we have been told to do this and theres nothing I can do about it.
If the Virus is what they say it is you wouldn't need to falsify any document's.
Does anyone reading this think this is what the NHS should do?

In the comments it said she had no symptoms and wasn’t tested. Probably Just someone bored working on their next conspiracy 

Does seem a bit strange if it was clearly a cardiac arrest - I imagine there's a lot of confusion in some of the hospitals at the moment. There's bound to be a few mistakes at the moment - hopefully they'll get put right in the fullness of time.

2 minutes ago, tyldesley_white said:

not even close 🙂

Did the new incumbent scrap the whole thing because he’s mental?

Just now, Spider said:

Did the new incumbent scrap the whole thing because he’s mental?

please take a prize from the top shelve , it seems it was a waste money , im sure it didnt save 2.2 trillion

42 minutes ago, peelyfeet said:

Of course there are multiple factors, but deaths per population is being used as one of the main variables by the analysts because it's a simple way to compare how its affecting different areas, and how  the local or national government strategy works on a set number of people. Without taking populationinto account how could we do that more accurately?

Obviously you take into account countries with very large and very small populations as outliers, but if it's being used to look at western countries with similar life expectancy and economies, it's one of the best methods we have in my opinion

I'm not really talking about the analysts. I'm sure they'll have hundreds of variables that they're weighting against each other.

It's more about us lot glancing through the death rates and then drawing conclusions.

And I think till the virus has run its full course - I'd be hesitant about drawing too many conclusions anyway. Unknown unknowns and all that!

There’s a council that has cancelled events where mass gatherings would be expected. All the way to bonfire night. 

27 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

If it isn’t about spending; why did you bring it up?

Compare the preparedness and health spend of the UK and South Korea; it isn’t about spend.

It also is based on an assumption that we are losing in this, when we have a year to go, which seems a bit strange to me.

Your political views are becoming clearer and less neutral than you claimed at outset.

As I said earlier, you should be happy that the economy has collapsed, as it is bang in line with the stated aims of the Extinction people.

 

It's getting boring mate- your post is just some botched attempt to make a political judgement about someone to win an argument. Stick to what you know pal. 

I brought spending it up alongside quite a few other factors. I haven't said it was the biggest factor in this- but you've gone ahead and jumped to that conclusion. 

You can compare us to South Korea all you want. We've made financial decisions to reduce our PPE and not to invest in changes when we failed our pandemic drill. Those are two things that the public deserve to know about and they both involved money. Wouldn't you agree? 

As a sports fan you should know that you can be losing something- even if you've still got plenty of time to go. I've said numerous times on this thread that some of that cabinet have stepped it up and that others have plenty time to redeem themselves. 

As I said earlier- it's a shitty stance to take to suggest that someone is happy about this. Just because you disagree with them. Call me out as much as you want- I get things wrong like the rest of us- but try steering clear of claims that I'm enjoying anything about this.

25 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Does seem a bit strange if it was clearly a cardiac arrest - I imagine there's a lot of confusion in some of the hospitals at the moment. There's bound to be a few mistakes at the moment - hopefully they'll get put right in the fullness of time.

Something I alluded to in our previous discussion 

Apologies if this has been mentioned already today, seems like the Kraut main tabloid is joining in with the blame China theory.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1271028/Angela-Merkel-Germany-China-coronavirus-blame-Wuhan-Xi-Jinping-Trump-latest

This is interesting 

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/trending/coronavirus-cdc-reviewing-stunning-universal-testing-results-boston-homeless-shelter/ZADQ45HCAZEVJAZA3OTCUR7M6M/

I wonder what proportion of the UK population have had it?

50 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

It's getting boring mate- your post is just some botched attempt to make a political judgement about someone to win an argument. Stick to what you know pal. 

I brought spending it up alongside quite a few other factors. I haven't said it was the biggest factor in this- but you've gone ahead and jumped to that conclusion. 

You can compare us to South Korea all you want. We've made financial decisions to reduce our PPE and not to invest in changes when we failed our pandemic drill. Those are two things that the public deserve to know about and they both involved money. Wouldn't you agree? 

As a sports fan you should know that you can be losing something- even if you've still got plenty of time to go. I've said numerous times on this thread that some of that cabinet have stepped it up and that others have plenty time to redeem themselves. 

As I said earlier- it's a shitty stance to take to suggest that someone is happy about this. Just because you disagree with them. Call me out as much as you want- I get things wrong like the rest of us- but try steering clear of claims that I'm enjoying anything about this.

Cheers 🍻 

1 hour ago, kent_white said:

I'm not really talking about the analysts. I'm sure they'll have hundreds of variables that they're weighting against each other.

It's more about us lot glancing through the death rates and then drawing conclusions.

And I think till the virus has run its full course - I'd be hesitant about drawing too many conclusions anyway. Unknown unknowns and all that!

Sorry mate, we'll have to agree to disagree. I cant stop myself from checking on how areas are doing against each other, and I'm still going to use population as one of several factors when I draw my own conclusions, and read data from others that use it too. It's more accurate if you do it at city level.

Anyway, back to the sunshine and alcohol, have a good evening - how soon do you have to order at Cherry tree, when will they bring next Sunday menu out?

Edited April 19, 20206 yr by peelyfeet

https://fullfact.org/online/50-thousand-ventilators/

Oh dear......