Meanwhile in Israel

[bolty58]

39 minutes ago, Ani said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war
 

You said ask Hamas , here are the only numbers I can find, sure you will dispute them , but 80% of casualties are civilians and over 30% are children. 
 

The terrorists killed 815, the Israelis are coming up to 50,000 in total so just short of 40,000 civilians. 

I'd gamble that those numbers are absolute fantasy in both directions.

Either way, I thought we had established an acceptable variance based on the hostage to terrorist exchange ratio?

 

[Sweep]

3 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I could just have easily written this about Israel. 

The fact is - abhorrent as the October attack was - it's not in the same stratosphere as the consistent carnage that's been unleashed on Gaza. 

And if any country was launching missiles into Israel that were killing civilians in the same numbers as we've seen in Gaza, I'd be saying EXACTLY the same. 

I think the difference here is that you can see, and happily admit that both "sides" are absolutely awful and have done terrible, terrible things - I'm not sure Bolty sees anything other than HAMAS as the naughty people, and Israel as having never done anything except defend themselves.

[bolty58]

3 minutes ago, kent_white said:

And if any country was launching missiles into Israel that were killing civilians in the same numbers as we've seen in Gaza, I'd be saying EXACTLY the same. 

Only the iron dome is preventing you for being EXACT. Having said that, the murderous scumbags of Hamas are obviously not a country.

[BobyBrno]

16 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Boby really isn't balanced ... which is fine.

We all pick sides and some are more balanced than others.  It's fine to stick with one side and to have an agenda.  Just a bit odd to pretend that you don't when it's clear for the world (WWays) to see.

Obsessed😅

[BobyBrno]

13 minutes ago, Ani said:

Hopefully he can find an environment in which he feels safe to come out. He can take inspiration from Bolty and RW. 

Obsessed😅

[BobyBrno]

Stick to the subject lads. 😉

[Ani]

1 minute ago, BobyBrno said:

Obsessed😅

Seems you are 

[bolty58]

1 minute ago, Sweep said:

I'm not sure Bolty sees anything other than HAMAS as the naughty people, and Israel as having never done anything except defend themselves.

Just to remove any doubt whatsoever, let me make it clear. One side is surrounded on all sides by what I would consider primitive savages who want to wipe them off the face of the Earth/push them into the sea  etc.

They live in a sophisticated and developed democracy and want (generally) only to be left in peace. This will never happen so they have no option other than  to give it everything. Most Western democracies still offer support with arms supplies and intelligence assistance and I agree with that.

It will upset the usual suspects. I'll learn to get over the disappointment.

[bolty58]

3 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Obsessed😅

I'd say you are much closer to being balanced than yon mon.

[kent_white]

3 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Only the iron dome is preventing you for being EXACT. Having said that, the murderous scumbags of Hamas are obviously not a country.

Exactly. So there's a huge power imbalance before we even start. It's very hard for Hamas to realistically touch Israel in a consistent and meaningful way - aside from scattered acts of terrorism and events like the massacre at the music festival. 

And thank God for the Iron Dome. I wish we had one protecting the UK. I don't want to see innocent Israelis being slaughtered either. 

[BobyBrno]

4 minutes ago, Ani said:

Seems you are 

Eh? I haven’t checked how many posts you have made. Is it play time on here today?😅 

 

[DazBob]

19 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Happens in every war. Maybe don't start it in the first place?

How indiscriminate are the missiles launched at Israel by Hamas and others? I suppose some on here have different standards for that set of cunts?

 

1. I'm not sure the dead babies started anything.

2. Nobody has said they're okay with Hamas doing the same.

[Ani]

3 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Just to remove any doubt whatsoever, let me make it clear. One side is surrounded on all sides by what I would consider primitive savages who want to wipe them off the face of the Earth/push them into the sea  etc.

They live in a sophisticated and developed democracy and want (generally) only to be left in peace. This will never happen so they have no option other than  to give it everything. Most Western democracies still offer support with arms supplies and intelligence assistance and I agree with that.

It will upset the usual suspects. I'll learn to get over the disappointment.

But do you accept that the Israeli attacks are killing thousands of people who are nothing to do with Hamas ? I have no problem with Hamas being wiped out but IMO the collateral damage we are seeing now is too scatter gun.  I had no problem when they exploded all the pagers, thought it was incredibly clever. 

[Ani]

3 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Eh? I haven’t checked how many posts you have made. Is it play time on here today?😅 

 

Stick to the subject UB. 

[royal white]

Have they handed the hostages back yet? 

[kent_white]

Just by a quick show of hands. If there was a hypothetical button which you could press - which meant every member of Hamas would disappear this afternoon. Is there anybody on here that woundn't press it? 

(the caveat being that having pressed it Israel wouldn't just roll into Gaza and take it over of course - which they probably would). 

 

[Sweep]

4 minutes ago, royal white said:

Have they handed the hostages back yet? 

Have they balls, and they won't, as they know what will happen as soon as they do. Some guy on the radio yesterday was saying the extreme Far Right of the Israeli Government are basically righting those hostages off now, and just want to go all in, which I suspect will happen.

[Sweep]

3 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Just by a quick show of hands. If there was a hypothetical button which you could press - which meant every member of Hamas would disappear this afternoon. Is there anybody on here that woundn't press it? 

(the caveat being that having pressed it Israel wouldn't just roll into Gaza and take it over of course - which they probably would). 

 

We'd all like Hamas gone, sadly they never will, and arguably recent events are "creating" more members  - it really is an utter mess.

[BobyBrno]

8 minutes ago, Ani said:

Stick to the subject UB. 

You and CoCo started it with your balance comments and even NIC chipped in with ‘like’ 😅

No balance for me on this subject. Hamas need destroying. 

[Sweep]

18 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Just to remove any doubt whatsoever, let me make it clear. One side is surrounded on all sides by what I would consider primitive savages who want to wipe them off the face of the Earth/push them into the sea  etc.

They live in a sophisticated and developed democracy and want (generally) only to be left in peace. This will never happen so they have no option other than  to give it everything. Most Western democracies still offer support with arms supplies and intelligence assistance and I agree with that.

It will upset the usual suspects. I'll learn to get over the disappointment.

Agreed, maybe we should move them elsewhere, to a safer area. Loads of room in the US and Australia, then they could live in relative safety, and not worry about their neighbours 😉

[Ani]

Just now, BobyBrno said:

You and CoCo started it with your balance comments and even NIC chipped in with ‘like’ 😅

No balance for me on this subject. Hamas need destroying. 

‘You started it’ is it playtime on here ?

No one is disputing the second point, just what is the justifiable cost. 

[Ani]

7 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Just by a quick show of hands. If there was a hypothetical button which you could press - which meant every member of Hamas would disappear this afternoon. Is there anybody on here that woundn't press it? 

(the caveat being that having pressed it Israel wouldn't just roll into Gaza and take it over of course - which they probably would). 

 

As long as The Don promises to make a proper resort of the place. 

[royal white]

Now we are all in agreement that Hamas need destroying can anyone come up with an idea of how. 

[kent_white]

Just now, Ani said:

‘You started it’ is it playtime on here ?

No one is disputing the second point, just what is the justifiable cost. 

I'm casting my mind back to the way responded to the IRA back in the day. And what the better approach of the two might be! 

[kent_white]

2 minutes ago, royal white said:

Now we are all in agreement that Hamas need destroying can anyone come up with an idea of how. 

How about

1) a multinational peace keeping force in Gaza composed of troops from Europe and Arab states (but not the US or Iran) with a clear international mandate to dismantle Hamas' capabilities whilst protecting civilians. 

2) a massive humanitarian aid package along with an economic development programme 

3) an interim government led by moderate Palestinian leaders and overseen initially by the international community

4) A clearly agreed pathway to a two state solution

5) Internationally agreed security guarantees for both sides 

I reckon that's got a much better chance of long term peace than just indiscriminate bombing?