18 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

I would be shocked if you are right and FV work within self-contained departments and not working corporately.

Football clubs are a totally different beast. Most are usually in silos.

Edited June 25Jun 25 by jmjhb

Sluffy thats a very long winded way of saying its Fergals job to suck air through his teeth and say "I agree with you Schuey but we've only got so much, so we cant do this one"

Edited June 25Jun 25 by RoadRunnerFan

11 minutes ago, jmjhb said:

Football clubs are a totally different beast. Most are usually in silos.

Well I don't know the insides of a football club but I don't believe multi-million pound companies, of which FV is, are not corporate in their workings and outlooks.

I don't believe that a high profile Director such as Harkin would basically stick his head in the sand and not take ownership of something that directly effects his and his departments prime performance (what's the point of enticing players to sign if at the last minute says, 'Sorry Fergal. old chap, you've already hit the SCR limit with your first six signings'

'Oh sorry Director of Finance, if only I knew about SCR and what it meant sooner'.

Anyway I can't disprove you but I can't believe for one moment you are right either.

29 minutes ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

Sluffy thats a very long winded way of saying its Fergals job to suck air through his teeth and say "I agree with you Schuey but we've only got so much, so we cant do this one"

According to jmjhb he wouldn't even know about SCR or what it means but if he did, yes, that's the sort of thing Harkin might well be saying to Schumacher.

3 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

According to jmjhb he wouldn't even know about SCR or what it means but if he did, yes, that's the sort of thing Harkin might well be saying to Schumacher.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. As I'm sure you're aware from your experience of managing companies, the budget would be based on a forecast though; not irrelevant data from 2 years ago in a completely different scenario.

They certainly wouldn't be expected to speak about obscure financial framework at length like an expert to business leaders.. In fact, one of the most recent Business Club guests was Kieran Maguire who you would expect something like that from.

Edited June 25Jun 25 by jmjhb

16 minutes ago, jmjhb said:

Now you're putting words in my mouth. As I'm sure you're aware from your experience of managing companies, the budget would be based on a forecast though; not irrelevant data from 2 years ago in a completely different scenario.

They certainly wouldn't be expected to speak about obscure financial framework at length like an expert to business leaders.. In fact, one of the most recent Business Club guests was Kieran Maguire who you would expect something like that from.

I've no idea what you are talking about in respect of this data from 2 years ago, do you mean the trials they ran to check that it works?

During the course of the 2025/26 season, Championship Clubs have been operating an SCR system in shadow, alongside the P&S Rules, to allow Clubs to assess the proposed rule changes and provide the League with further information to enable wider consultation with stakeholders.

If it happens (and I now doubt it will anytime soon), SCR will be based on the current years revenue (2026-27)...

The new framework allows for real-time monitoring during the season, rather than reviewing ‘after the event’, with the aim of giving Clubs greater clarity and the Club Financial Reporting Unit earlier visibility over Clubs’ financial position.

The changes are intended to create a simpler and more responsive system of cost control within the Championship.

Championship and League One Clubs approve changes to financial control rules - The English Football League

I don't know how it will work but I assume the summer transfer window would be based around revenue from Season Ticket sales and assumed attendance revenue for home matches up to the January window, and the January window based on revenue to date (and whether it is plus or minus from the summer calculations and assumed home match revenue from the rest of the season.

But I'm only guessing.

And IT ISN'T as you term it an "obscure financial framework" it is the EFL's flagship replacement of the existing Championship Profitability and Sustainability Rules and breaching of them will cost clubs loss of points and/or fines.

Christ wouldn't you think a Director of Football would be all over something that might cost his team hard won points - wouldn't you?

Well I would.

And you still miss my point.

It's not that someone might have asked the question of Harkin - it's all to do (in my opinion anyway) that he didn't volunteer to say something that was going to be happening just in a few days time that would effect ALL Championship teams.

To me, it means that it isn't something that is going to be happening anytime soon, never mind just a few days away.

Just to emphasise my point above...

Q to AI - did Leicester receive a point deduction in the championship recently and did that cause them to get relegated

Ans - Yes, Leicester City received a 6-point deduction in the EFL Championship and it was a primary reason they were relegated to League One

The Relegation Impact

The points deduction proved completely fatal to their survival hopes. [1, 2]

• Statistically, without the 6-point penalty, Leicester City would have avoided relegation.

• The penalty dropped them deep into the survival battle, and their form collapsed to just two wins in 20 matches after the turn of the year.

No, I wouldn't expect the sporting director to know specific details on ticketing or commercial revenue. Not at all, not his department. As a member of the SLT he might get an update on it, but that's about it.

I'd say it is somewhat obscure when no-one seemingly knows how it's going to work! They really need to publish it like they say they plan to in the article.

Edited June 25Jun 25 by jmjhb

remember, if you want to not see S̶l̶u̶f̶ someones posts (i.e ignore) , click/press on your username (top right), click/press on ignored users and put the name of the poster you don't want to see anymore in the box.

Edited June 25Jun 25 by TroySwoosh

10 minutes ago, jmjhb said:

No, I wouldn't expect the sporting director to know specific details on ticketing or commercial revenue. Not at all, not his department.

I'd say it is somewhat obscure when no-one seemingly knows how it's going to work! They really need to publish it like they say they plan to in the article.

I never said he would?

I've said the Director of Football at EVERY club in the Championship would be aware of EFL's intention to replace Championship P&S rules with SCR.

I would expect them to know at least that SCR allows only up to 85% of revenue to be used for Squad Costs, and I would expect him to know (or at least ask for) what the Squad Costs (as defined by SCR) would have been in the season just gone and what percentage that would have been on last years revenue.

Then at least he would have some idea as to where he needs to be going to be able to comply with SCR.

I'm not asking him to know financial minutia, just what he needs to set out a strategy to recruit enough of the right players, into the positions that crucially need filling and be able to do so within EFL's new regulations.

Fwiw I suspect part of the intent stated from last season, to reduce player numbers was driven in part, knowing there was an intention to bring in SCR, which would effect us, if we got promoted, which we did,

Ok I know that was never achieved and I know the excuse (probably true) that players were let go because they weren't getting game time, but I don't remember it being an issued before, do you?

For instance Morley was brought back from Wycombe and wasn't a regular for the rest of that season, or the first half of the next, before we sold him

Anyway I've convinced myself that SCR is not going to be introduced anytime soon and I'm assuming P&S rules will still be applying this season, unless we are told differently.

If so, they limit the clubs losses to £39m over a 3 year period - which actually suits us much better.

45 minutes ago, TroySwoosh said:

remember, if you want to not see S̶l̶u̶f̶ someones posts (i.e ignore) , click/press on your username (top right), click/press on ignored users and put the name of the poster you don't want to see anymore in the box.

Or just scroll through it like I'm doing and always have since he appeared last time. Royal White and London Wanderer must be rubbing their hands in glee.

4 hours ago, TroySwoosh said:

remember, if you want to not see S̶l̶u̶f̶ someones posts (i.e ignore) , click/press on your username (top right), click/press on ignored users and put the name of the poster you don't want to see anymore in the box.

I've always been off the thought that putting folk in ignore is the behaviour of utter fuckwits and cretins, it's a forum for fucks sake, different opinions is what it is about. And surely having people on ignore can possibly help lose context to a discussion. Anyway.....I may be about to join that gang, and exercise the ignore function, purely to get rid of the person who manages to use 1,000,000 words, when just 20 would do 🙂 - the posts are nigh on impossible to read on a phone

It’s the suggestion JMJHB is wrong but then acknowledging he doesn’t know himself I find a bit odd.

3 hours ago, tomski said:

It’s the suggestion JMJHB is wrong but then acknowledging he doesn’t know himself I find a bit odd.

Neither jmjhb or myself know what Harkin knows or doesn't.

I can't speak for jmjhb but I've held senior positions in multi-million pound organisations and have had departmental and corporate responsibilities in them.

The suggestion that Harkin, a Director of Football, who along with the CEO, Director of Finance are the three most senior officers of FV, would be unaware of EFL legislation having a direct effect on how the organisation will need to be run for the next 3 years is beyond any belief or credibility to me. Indeed the CEO would have been reporting to Sharon, James and Luckock at their Board Meetings how the Management Team will have been preparing for them and the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats, the legislation presents to FV.

To suggest that Harkin in effect knows sweet Fanny Adams about them is absolutely preposterous to me, being that he's the one responsible to 'build the squad' that the 'squad building' legislation is directly relating too.

He's the one responsible if FV ultimately fucks up over this, as he's the one with the responsibility to recruit and 'built the squad' under the 'squad building' legislation.

Can I prove what Harkin knows or not - no I can't.

But I can state unequivocally that he should damn well know, as it is his job (along with the rest of the officers Management Team) to know about proposed EFL legislation, how it will effect the company, report it to the Board, take their direction, then plan and implement it.

That's how corporations are run.

Sluffy why have you moved this to be what Harkin knows or what he does not know. It was said Schumacher not Harkin would not care to know about every department at the club.

Gone thankfully are the days one man ran the club from top to bottom. Days when a player was on 1k a week which the player got 500 and both the agent and manager collected 250....Going back to what was originally said why would say SS care or bother what the ticketing office is doing over the summer. Or would he be signing permits to work on site.........Stop being so stupid his role is football related and his only outside discussion would be with his staff, Harkin and the medical team which would be all football related. He may have a sit down informal meeting with Sharon each month and that is it

17 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

Sluffy why have you moved this to be what Harkin knows or what he does not know. It was said Schumacher not Harkin would not care to know about every department at the club.

Gone thankfully are the days one man ran the club from top to bottom. Days when a player was on 1k a week which the player got 500 and both the agent and manager collected 250....Going back to what was originally said why would say SS care or bother what the ticketing office is doing over the summer. Or would he be signing permits to work on site.........Stop being so stupid his role is football related and his only outside discussion would be with his staff, Harkin and the medical team which would be all football related. He may have a sit down informal meeting with Sharon each month and that is it

I know your game J

I've already answered everything that you now want to start a never ending argument about and I'm simply not doing it.

Go and play somewhere else.

Edited June 26Jun 26 by Sluffy

I don’t know @jmjhb from Adam but if you can’t read between the lines with his posts and figure out that he’s very knowledgeable on the inner dealings / financial aspects of the club then you’re really not very switched on.

It would be unfair to ask any more details but I get the sense that he’s doing a very good job of biting his tongue when he’s being challenged on things that he very likely knows the exact answer to.

Does this site have some basic protection against SPAM since it was upgraded?

20 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

I know your game J

I've already answered everything that you now want to start a never ending argument about and I'm simply not doing it.

Go and play somewhere else.

that's the second time you've called him J despite him saying the last time that's not his iniital

I'm sure @masi 51 won't mind me posting this screengrab but his registered email strongly suggests his initial is not J

so I think you're barking up the wrong tree there

13 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I don’t know @jmjhb from Adam but if you can’t read between the lines with his posts and figure out that he’s very knowledgeable on the inner dealings / financial aspects of the club then you’re really not very switched on.

It would be unfair to ask any more details but I get the sense that he’s doing a very good job of biting his tongue when he’s being challenged on things that he very likely knows the exact answer to.

I still stand by belief that a Director of Football, responsible for 'building a squad', would be aware of the EFL's regulations on 'squad building'.

1 minute ago, Sluffy said:

I still stand by belief that a Director of Football, responsible for 'building a squad', would be aware of the EFL's regulations on 'squad building'.

Where have I said he isn't? There's a difference between being aware of it and adhering to it and talking about it to a group of business people.

Most clubs of a particular size have a specific football admin role (outwith the accounts department) which primarily deal with all this.

Edited June 26Jun 26 by jmjhb

2 minutes ago, Zico said:

that's the second time you've called him J despite him saying the last time that's not his iniital

I'm sure @masi 51 won't mind me posting this screengrab but his registered email strongly suggests his initial his not J

so I think you're barking up the wrong tree there

Thank you.

I know him by his user name on Nuts which is Jay Jay.

As the saying goes, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quack likes a duck, it's probably a duck and Masi behaves exactly as Jay Jay used to do towards me on Nuts.

It is clear though that his post above was looking to commence a never ending argument with me, no doubt with the intention of ultimately getting me banned.

26 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

Thank you.

I know him by his user name on Nuts which is Jay Jay.

As the saying goes, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quack likes a duck, it's probably a duck and Masi behaves exactly as Jay Jay used to do towards me on Nuts.

It is clear though that his post above was looking to commence a never ending argument with me, no doubt with the intention of ultimately getting me banned.

Think you called another out this week as someone off the aptly named nuts. He also stated he had never been into that forum.

JJ is indeed the best payer to ever put a Bolton shirt on, but i am not vague enough to name myself after him.

You need to relax a little and admit your wrong at times

And i have no intention of getting anyone banned........I find you amusing. You will get yourself banned. As i have stated before you are a fairly clever man but thick as fog

12 minutes ago, jmjhb said:

Where have I said he isn't? There's a difference between being aware of it and adhering to it and talking about it to a group of business people.

Most clubs of a particular size have a specific football admin role (outwith the accounts department) which primarily deal with all this.

Good we are getting somewhere.

16 hours ago, Sluffy said:

...there was no talk of SCR mentioned (and the video IS very recent..,

I'm beginning to wonder that maybe SCR is being differed until next season perhaps?

If so I imagine Championship Profitability and Sustainability Rules will apply again this season?

16 hours ago, jmjhb said:

It's definitely not in Schuey's remit. Probably not Fergal's either.

15 hours ago, Sluffy said:

I'm sure one or both of them must have something in their JD's saying something like, bring about ongoing strengthening of the playing squad by means of signings and/or loans in compliance with all EFL rules and regulations and within agreed annual budget provided and supplemented by any agreed revenue from player sales.

15 hours ago, jmjhb said:

Asking them questions about PSR regulations and such would just be pointless as, outside of how much their department has to spend, they would have no clue. It's not one of their many strong points.

14 hours ago, Sluffy said:

I'm sure if asked he'd say something along these lines as this -

All Championship clubs will be facing new EFL rules this season relating to limiting how much teams can spend to build and strengthen their playing squads.

The details have yet to be published in full but we have made plans on what we will be doing based on what we know so far and will be fully prepared for them once full details are known and, in advance of them being implemented.

There's no way Harkin wouldn't have known sufficient to answer such a question being asked of him (Schumacher too come to that)

And my point WASN'T that someone might have asked a question, it was rather the reverse, that Harkin DIDN'T make mention of it himself.

NOT mentioning something that is going to be a significant factor of what ALL Champions clubs will have to work towards, and which 'should' be taking effect in just a few days time, strongly suggests to me that it isn't happening!

14 hours ago, jmjhb said:

Why would Fergal mention it? He's a football man...

13 hours ago, Sluffy said:

Why would Harkin NOT mention something, that is current, relevant and that he's no doubt been briefed about to face a public audience at a Question and Answers event?

To me he didn't volunteer anything because there doesn't seem to be anything to volunteer - SCR seems to have 'disappeared' at least for now?

12 hours ago, jmjhb said:

They [Harkin and Schumacher] certainly wouldn't be expected to speak about obscure financial framework at length like an expert to business leaders.

11 hours ago, Sluffy said:

And IT ISN'T as you term it an "obscure financial framework" it is the EFL's flagship replacement of the existing Championship Profitability and Sustainability Rules and breaching of them will cost clubs loss of points and/or fines.

And you still miss my point.

It's not that someone might have asked the question of Harkin - it's all to do (in my opinion anyway) that he didn't volunteer to say something that was going to be happening just in a few days time that would effect ALL Championship teams.

To me, it means that it isn't something that is going to be happening anytime soon, never mind just a few days away.

11 hours ago, jmjhb said:

No, I wouldn't expect the sporting director to know specific details on ticketing or commercial revenue. Not at all, not his department. As a member of the SLT he might get an update on it, but that's about it.

I'd say it is somewhat obscure when no-one seemingly knows how it's going to work! They really need to publish it like they say they plan to in the article.

10 hours ago, Sluffy said:

I never said he would?

I've said the Director of Football at EVERY club in the Championship would be aware of EFL's intention to replace Championship P&S rules with SCR.

I would expect them to know at least that SCR allows only up to 85% of revenue to be used for Squad Costs, and I would expect him to know (or at least ask for) what the Squad Costs (as defined by SCR) would have been in the season just gone and what percentage that would have been on last years revenue.

Then at least he would have some idea as to where he needs to be going to be able to comply with SCR.

I'm not asking him to know financial minutia, just what he needs to set out a strategy to recruit enough of the right players, into the positions that crucially need filling and be able to do so within EFL's new regulations.

So have we finally agreed that Harkin IS aware of SCR and knew enough to be able to answer a question had it arisen at the Q&A and that the absence of any recent news on SCR within a week now of it actually coming into force, strongly suggest that it seems to have been delayed?

I hope so anyway.

57 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

Thank you.

I know him by his user name on Nuts which is Jay Jay.

As the saying goes, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quack likes a duck, it's probably a duck and Masi behaves exactly as Jay Jay used to do towards me on Nuts.

It is clear though that his post above was looking to commence a never ending argument with me, no doubt with the intention of ultimately getting me banned.

does his registered email on nuts start with an m?

anyway, never ending arguements will not get you banned on here, otherwise it'd end up like nuts

quoting 12 posts in a reply might though

no one is re-reading all that

it's just noise

board: here's your budget

Fergal / SS: ta

nowt else needed.