Site Supporter Cheese Posted November 30, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said: Have you taken RW tablets tonight? Fuck off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: From where we are. We are a divided nation - a scissored isle. We're stuck to much in the past. We are not a colonial nation, we need European partners, we are not a global power. Lets look at our amazing strengths. A modern forward looking country, that works with partners, is proud of our history but doesn't arrogantly rest on it. There's no reason we can't achieve that as a constitutional monarchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjayoghani Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 (edited) Read last week that Charlie is hoovering up assets from folk who have died without a will. Made a few hundred million from it. Cunt. My mistake only 60m https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/23/revealed-king-charles-secretly-profiting-from-the-assets-of-dead-citizens Edited November 30, 2023 by jayjayoghani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: There's no reason we can't achieve that as a constitutional monarchy Not at all - I'm not calling for the king's head - but they need to sort this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 12 minutes ago, Cheese said: Fuck off. You have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Cheese said: Why? They act as a benign outlet for people to express their patriotism, without which that patriotism may instead be expressed through the political sphere - I don't doubt the far right exists in this country but it isn't a serious political force and the presence of a monarchy is in part the reason why They act as a unifying focal point for the country by avoiding publicly involving themselves in the contentious issues of our time The country has no appetite for a partisan Head of State and the Royal Family not only understand that implicitly - the existence of their institution depends on it - but are conditioned for that role from a young age The alternative would most likely involve giving greater power to the most influential politician at any given period - imagine President or Head of State Boris Johnson They have no real power and the democratic will of the public is exercised in full by Parliament They have no significant negative impact on people's lives and any alternative is unlikely to be better or offers us something we don't already have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted November 30, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted November 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: They act as a benign outlet for people to express their patriotism, without which that patriotism may instead be expressed through the political sphere - I don't doubt the far right exists in this country but it isn't a serious political force and the presence of a monarchy is in part the reason why They act as a unifying focal point for the country by avoiding publicly involving themselves in the contentious issues of our time The country has no appetite for a partisan Head of State and the Royal Family not only understand that implicitly - the existence of their institution depends on it - but are conditioned for that role from a young age The alternative would most likely involve giving greater power to the most influential politician at any given period - imagine President or Head of State Boris Johnson They have no real power and the democratic will of the public is exercised in full by Parliament They have no significant negative impact on people's lives and any alternative is unlikely to be better or offers us something we don't already have So basically, they're there to appease the fragile ego's of millions of thick people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: They act as a benign outlet for people to express their patriotism, without which that patriotism may instead be expressed through the political sphere - I don't doubt the far right exists in this country but it isn't a serious political force and the presence of a monarchy is in part the reason why They act as a unifying focal point for the country by avoiding publicly involving themselves in the contentious issues of our time The country has no appetite for a partisan Head of State and the Royal Family not only understand that implicitly - the existence of their institution depends on it - but are conditioned for that role from a young age The alternative would most likely involve giving greater power to the most influential politician at any given period - imagine President or Head of State Boris Johnson They have no real power and the democratic will of the public is exercised in full by Parliament They have no significant negative impact on people's lives and any alternative is unlikely to be better or offers us something we don't already have Your last two paragraphs show an distinct misunderstanding of their power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: Your last two paragraphs show an distinct misunderstanding of their power. How? I'm not referring to the theory but the practice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: How? I'm not referring to the theory but the practice You are dismissing the impact on peoples lives as though they are just benign. They aren't. They have power - soft of whatever you want to call it - but to cast it off as nothing is incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Just now, Not in Crawley said: You are dismissing the impact on peoples lives as though they are just benign. They aren't. They have power - soft of whatever you want to call it - but to cast it off as nothing is incorrect. What power? They have no power in any meaningful sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: What power? They have no power in any meaningful sense And that's why they will always be heads of state. Because we dismiss the power they have. If you look at it terms of literal policy than you are already asking the wrong questions. If they had no power we wouldn't have had the reformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: And that's why they will always be heads of state. Because we dismiss the power they have. If you look at it terms of literal policy than you are already asking the wrong questions. If they had no power we wouldn't have had the reformation. But what power - as a constitutional monarchy - do they have now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: But what power - as a constitutional monarchy - do they have now? We can keep going on and on. Literal power? As in to make policy nothing - not that's not the issue is. They do have real social power, which impacts on governments and the public. As I say, if you keep talking about literal power, you are forgetting all the other things that dictate public - and therefore political - power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Just now, Not in Crawley said: We can keep going on and on. Literal power? As in to make policy nothing - not that's not the issue is. They do have real social power, which impacts on governments and the public. As I say, if you keep talking about literal power, you are forgetting all the other things that dictate public - and therefore political - power. No, I'm not I'm asking what power they have - literal or soft - and how it manifests itself? How has the Royal Family in its current guise dictated public and political power, or influenced the actions of the Government? In what sense do they have a significant negative impact on the lives of the general public? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: No, I'm not I'm asking what power they have - literal or soft - and how it manifests itself? How has the Royal Family in its current guise dictated public and political power, or influenced the actions of the Government? In what sense do they have a significant negative impact on the lives of the general public? If we went through there soft power. Look at the turn out for every major royal event- millions. That's not easily dismissed- as you are - by any politicial party. You know, those who are in power. And those who turn out vote. That's just not soft power. That's power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted November 30, 2023 Moderators Share Posted November 30, 2023 I'm reading and trying to follow this conversation And the conclusion I have come to Is the French riot more than we do because they have no royal family Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: If we went through there soft power. Look at the turn out for every major royal event- millions. That's not easily dismissed- as you are - by any politicial party. You know, those who are in power. And those who turn out vote. That's just not soft power. That's power. That popularity exists because it's an apolitical institution - it grants them no power to act as a political agent or to exercise meaningful power It's not a mandate for anything other than the existence of a constitutional monarchy Any perceived power beyond that is illusory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Zico said: I'm reading and trying to follow this conversation And the conclusion I have come to Is the French riot more than we do because they have no royal family Well, if you had the history of the anciene regime you'd probably have a history of rioting. Thankfully in Britain we had the middle class to buffer it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Even Liz fucking Truss had the authority to tell Charlie he wasn't going to COP26 or whatever it was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: That popularity exists because it's an apolitical institution - it grants them no power to act as a political agent or to exercise meaningful power It's not a mandate for anything other than the existence of a constitutional monarchy Any perceived power beyond that is illusory Wow, that's a first statement - and ignores our social history. They are not popular because they are apolitical. You are discussing them as though they have only existed since the reformation. I'm not in disagreement with you about our constitution, but the idea the royal family are are benign sideline with no power in this country is fanciful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: Even Liz fucking Truss had the authority to tell Charlie he wasn't going to COP26 or whatever it was And that's why you are missing my point. You are talking about literal power, rather than what informs it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: Wow, that's a first statement - and ignores our social history. They are not popular because they are apolitical. You are discussing them as though they have only existed since the reformation. I'm not in disagreement with you about our constitution, but the idea the royal family are are benign sideline with no power in this country is fanciful. No, I'm discussing the monarchy as it exists now It owes its existence to our social history but it retains its popularity today because it's an apolitical institution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 9 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: And that's why you are missing my point. You are talking about literal power, rather than what informs it. I think you might actually be missing mine My claim was the monarchy has no real power, as in the power to bend a Government to its will or to directly impose laws on the populace And it doesn't At best, it can call upon a cultural influence in support of its own existence as a benign institution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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