Politics

[bwfcfan5]

This is a reasonable summary of where things stand and why this is a huge British political mess - from the economist - a publication that has endorsed all three major political parties in the last two decades - so not aligned to any single party.

https://www.economist.com/britain/2018/10/20/a-brexit-deal-is-closer-in-brussels-than-in-westminster

[Sweep]

21 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

. That time will allow her to get cross party support and get a softer Brexit deal through parliament.

I know you all think it's going really well at the minute, and we're going to get an absolutely brilliant deal in the next few weeks - but surely this talk of a "softer" Brexit deal can't be filling you with confidence that we're going to get every single thing that you "predicted" passed through.

If it's going to be softer than the Chequers deal, then even.....surely......you'll concede that it's not brilliant, and probably won't be anything like what a lot of the "leave" side wanted initially

[Mounts Kipper]

4 hours ago, Sweep said:

I know you all think it's going really well at the minute, and we're going to get an absolutely brilliant deal in the next few weeks - but surely this talk of a "softer" Brexit deal can't be filling you with confidence that we're going to get every single thing that you "predicted" passed through.

If it's going to be softer than the Chequers deal, then even.....surely......you'll concede that it's not brilliant, and probably won't be anything like what a lot of the "leave" side wanted initially

I am only quoting what I heard from political analysts, there is no point in commenting on your thoughts at the moment, (except to say many folk had varying reasons to vote leave and not all will be 100% happy) but a workable solution must be agreed that can placate leavers and remainers allowing it to pass through parliament) the time for that will be when its all been agreed,  even then I think it is very possible that the final deal will be modified in the years to come.  

Edited October 19, 2018 by Mounts Kipper

[Tonge moor green jacket]

4 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

This is a reasonable summary of where things stand and why this is a huge British political mess - from the economist - a publication that has endorsed all three major political parties in the last two decades - so not aligned to any single party.

https://www.economist.com/britain/2018/10/20/a-brexit-deal-is-closer-in-brussels-than-in-westminster

You moaned earlier that bd's link was from a pro brexit site!

Despite it being written by a chap who made no reference to the rights and wrongs of brexit, only offered his opinions on the approach of his peers and offered words of advice about undertaking discussions to the benefit of everyone.

Interestingly, his words would also apply to some politicians over here; but you're wasting your time trying to paint a picture of the EU "good" UK government "bad".

Dickwads all over the place, and this shit could have been sorted a long time ago had they listened to the wise words of the Czech MEP.

 

[bwfcfan5]

51 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

You moaned earlier that bd's link was from a pro brexit site!

Despite it being written by a chap who made no reference to the rights and wrongs of brexit, only offered his opinions on the approach of his peers and offered words of advice about undertaking discussions to the benefit of everyone.

Interestingly, his words would also apply to some politicians over here; but you're wasting your time trying to paint a picture of the EU "good" UK government "bad".

Dickwads all over the place, and this shit could have been sorted a long time ago had they listened to the wise words of the Czech MEP.

 

Even Government minister Jeremy Hunt today said "the great strength of the EU is that they stand together in these negotiations. We must do the same".

If you fail to believe that the position the BBC, Independent, Economist, Guardian, the Times and a whole host of political commentators report re Brexit to be the case and you think that it is a dastardly EU plan then a) you haven't followed very closely and b) you should stop reading wildy biased non factual right wing tabloid mumbo-jumbo.

The Tories aren't even hiding their civil war. Nor have the DUP hidden their anger at May's deal last year with the EU that they managed to see the details of and put to bed. 

Its all happened and been reported. None of it is questioned by anyone. The EU and May have reached a deal a broad deal was reached last year. Including NI. But the political landscape in the UK has stopped that from happening and no progress on it has been made since because May has not found something she thinks can get through OUR parliament. If you refuse to understand the position then there is little point in discussing it further. 

 

[Casino]

I disagree with your inference that the DUP are the only issue, here

I disagree strongly with NI being treated differently than GB

It is, indeed, ironic that the no surrender red hand mob are prmarily brexiteers and it's become clear brexit weakens the union

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Even Government minister Jeremy Hunt today said "the great strength of the EU is that they stand together in these negotiations. We must do the same".

If you fail to believe that the position the BBC, Independent, Economist, Guardian, the Times and a whole host of political commentators report re Brexit to be the case and you think that it is a dastardly EU plan then a) you haven't followed very closely and b) you should stop reading wildy biased non factual right wing tabloid mumbo-jumbo.

The Tories aren't even hiding their civil war. Nor have the DUP hidden their anger at May's deal last year with the EU that they managed to see the details of and put to bed. 

Its all happened and been reported. None of it is questioned by anyone. The EU and May have reached a deal a broad deal was reached last year. Including NI. But the political landscape in the UK has stopped that from happening and no progress on it has been made since because May has not found something she thinks can get through OUR parliament. If you refuse to understand the position then there is little point in discussing it further. 

 

10 PRINT "IT'S ALL THE EU'S FAULT" 

20 GOTO 10

RUN

[bwfcfan5]

51 minutes ago, Casino said:

I disagree with your inference that the DUP are the only issue, here

I disagree strongly with NI being treated differently than GB

It is, indeed, ironic that the no surrender red hand mob are prmarily brexiteers and it's become clear brexit weakens the union

The DUP aren’t the ‘only problem’ here. The obvious solution of remaining as a whole in the CU is blocked by the ERG et al. It’s the Tory Brexiteers and the DUP that block the likely solutions here. 

 

 

[Casino]

Aye, I suppose

But then your chums on the left could move things along if they decided where they stood

It's one massive fcuk up and any finger pointing at wankers, that doesn't point at the left, is a massive cop out

[bwfcfan5]

16 minutes ago, Casino said:

Aye, I suppose

But then your chums on the left could move things along if they decided where they stood

It's one massive fcuk up and any finger pointing at wankers, that doesn't point at the left, is a massive cop out

Labour have offered - I suspect that the problem is May trying to bring them on board opens up a huge chasm within her own party. I fully agree that Labour’s inability to pin a position down hasn’t helped. But then they are the opposition and ultimately don’t have to. We’d not be here had May not tried to ‘win a big majority’ and fucked it. If Labour had any ability, strength or unity they’d have May and the Tories our of office by now. But the fact they are useless means we have a useless government, and a useless opposition.

I hold Cameron, May, Boris, Farage and Mogg the representations of the main culprits here for the mess post referendum. There are countless others but they represent them. At least Brexiteer Davis had the balls to take the responsibility on and at least try.

 

 

 

[Casino]

If the remainers in labour grew some balls, what would stop may cracking on

[bwfcfan5]

20 minutes ago, Casino said:

If the remainers in labour grew some balls, what would stop may cracking on

Vast majority are remainers. But she can’t give Labour remainers enough without losing her own backbenchers and the DUP. It’s trying to square a circle. 

[MalcolmW]

The extended transition year was recommended several months ago by the Select Committee chaired by H Benn.

The DUP carry 10 votes against anything separating NI, although they want their own way separate to GB on many issues.

The Rees-Mogg group carry maybe 3 dozen who do not want any extension - or even a transition period beyond a few months.

Labour leadership are for leaving but only 4 or so Labour MPs will definitely support a Government deal.

The 13 Scottish Cons are against any extension to transition.

The Budget is being delivered this month, several weeks earlier than normal nowadays. The only reason is to keep the DUP onside at that point.

It is certainly no easy task to get any offer through the Commons, but both major parties allowing a free vote would be a huge step.

If May had not called an election in 2017 she would be facing one in 2020 - how would that go!?

[bwfcfan5]

3 minutes ago, MalcolmW said:

The extended transition year was recommended several months ago by the Select Committee chaired by H Benn.

The DUP carry 10 votes against anything separating NI, although they want their own way separate to GB on many issues.

The Rees-Mogg group carry maybe 3 dozen who do not want any extension - or even a transition period beyond a few months.

Labour leadership are for leaving but only 4 or so Labour MPs will definitely support a Government deal.

The 13 Scottish Cons are against any extension to transition.

The Budget is being delivered this month, several weeks earlier than normal nowadays. The only reason is to keep the DUP onside at that point.

It is certainly no easy task to get any offer through the Commons, but both major parties allowing a free vote would be a huge step.

If May had not called an election in 2017 she would be facing one in 2020 - how would that go!?

Better for her if she’d managed to get the deal she had agreed with the EU in 2017 done and with the majority she had, there was a better chance than now. 

[MalcolmW]

1 minute ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Better for her if she’d managed to get the deal she had agreed with the EU in 2017 done and with the majority she had, there was a better chance than now. 

Maybe. But the ERG group would be more likely to hold together and could have stopped the deal passing. Now they are in a difficult position and many, possibly most, will back down.

And May gets a clear run at the EU because if they push too hard we and they have no deal.

[bwfcfan5]

1 hour ago, MalcolmW said:

Maybe. But the ERG group would be more likely to hold together and could have stopped the deal passing. Now they are in a difficult position and many, possibly most, will back down.

And May gets a clear run at the EU because if they push too hard we and they have no deal.

The ERG are less likely to back down now. They have hardened knowing May is a lame duck.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

The ERG are less likely to back down now. They have hardened knowing May is a lame duck.

But why are they so quiet?

[bwfcfan5]

32 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

But why are they so quiet?

Quiet? They are not. Mogg is moaning every chance he gets. 

[Cheese]

Anyone at this point who believes we're not crashing out with no deal is either ignorant or deluded. Our involvement in EVERY SINGLE EU treaty and organisation ends next March, by default. No more Open Skies, no more EMA, no more Euratom, not a single trade deal with a single country, no more any of it. We Have NOTHING in place to replicate these systems. We are all going to suffer badly one way or another, for many, many years to come. And it is all entirely self-inflicted. We had a huge influence in all of these things until 2 years ago. A proper modern tragedy, brought about by nationalist fantasies and mass delusion. We are about to find out our REAL place in the modern world. 

[Moon boy]

Stay strong Cheese, we did all right before the EU came along and we’ll thrive with full control of our own destiny

I know April 1st is our first day outside the EU but do you really think planes won’t fly? and the world will end, how did that Millenium bug thing turn out?

Try and look for the positives

 

[Cheese]

17 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

Stay strong Cheese, we did all right before the EU came along and we’ll thrive with full control of our own destiny

I know April 1st is our first day outside the EU but do you really think planes won’t fly? and the world will end, how did that Millenium bug thing turn out?

Try and look for the positives

 

We were fucked before we joined the EEC. That's why we joined it. 

April 1st isn't our first day outside the EU.

No, I don't think the "world will end", but yes, planes won't fly.

The Millennium Bug didn't cause many problems because we spent lots of money and many years preparing for it, rather than arguing about how to do it. Back when experts were trusted...

Name a single tangible positive. I've tried looking for one....

Edited October 19, 2018 by Cheese

[Mounts Kipper]

7 hours ago, Moon boy said:

Stay strong Cheese, we did all right before the EU came along and we’ll thrive with full control of our own destiny

I know April 1st is our first day outside the EU but do you really think planes won’t fly? and the world will end, how did that Millenium bug thing turn out?

Try and look for the positives

 

Your wasting your time he really believes project fear predictions (or hopes they do, otherwise he will look the dipstick he is ) anyone who thinks that his predictions might come true needs to go and buy a king size Turkey bacofoil. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Mounts Kipper

[Moon boy]

8 hours ago, Cheese said:

We were fucked before we joined the EEC. That's why we joined it. 

April 1st isn't our first day outside the EU.

No, I don't think the "world will end", but yes, planes won't fly.

The Millennium Bug didn't cause many problems because we spent lots of money and many years preparing for it, rather than arguing about how to do it. Back when experts were trusted...

Name a single tangible positive. I've tried looking for one....

Well save £350 MILLION a WEEK

[Salford Trotter]

9 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

Well save £350 MILLION a WEEK

And you believed that?? 

[royal white]

24 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

And you believed that?? 

Did you believe it?