Obviously there's lot of talk about what went wrong in terms of tactics in yesterdays game but to my mind our problems in such fixtures run much deeper than the present day, Ian Evatt, our current squad. 

Here are the facts: 

• We are six games without a win against Preston dating back to 2001. - that includes three straight home defeats.
• We've won one of 10 league games v Blackpool since we started playing them again in 2010 after a long gap with no fixtures. We've not won at Bloomfield Road since 1977 (14 league and cup fixtures). Admittedly there are a lot of draws in these fixtures but its still not good enough. 
• Our most recent derby win (excluding Accrington, Morecambe, Fleetwood) came against Blackburn at Christmas 2015 when Madine scored a late winner for 1-0 in a dour league game. In December that'll be eight years ago! Before then we can at least say we won and lost fixtures v Blackburn in roughly equal measure.
• We've not won in four fixtures v Burnley and one in six. The last win was in February 2013 - ten years ago. 
• We are now seven games without a win v Wigan (six league games) including some horrible thumpings (5-2, 4-0, 4-0). Eight years since an FA Cup win in early 2015 and nine years since a league win (3-1 at home in 2014). 
• Bury are no longer with us in a recognisable form but anyone with longer memories will know what an utter meal we routinely made of fixtures v them. It sums up the malaise I am trying to describe. In the early 80s and 90s we sustained defeats against 2-3, 2-4, 1-4 and 1-3 home defeats against them of which yesterday's farce had echoes. We went 87 years without a win at Gigg Lane and although there were long gaps without a fixture there were enough for us to have won a few. It took ex Bury player Phil Parkinson to understand what it meant to them so that we finally got over the line with a 0-2 win there in 2016. 

You could lob in Accrington 7 Bolton 1 (and other gormless defeats to Stanley lately) and Stockport 5 Bolton 3 in recent times. 

What the fuck is wrong with us? 

I doubt you'll find another club in English football with such a sloppy attitude to derby matches against sides who want our scalp. It's irritated me for a long time - even more so now I've just spent 20 mins googling the facts. 

We badly need to buck our ideas up in these games. They're out of context of whatever season they're in and we're surrounded by clubs who love to beat us. We need to take the same one-off approach and gear ourselves up properly for such fixtures ... otherwise debacles like yesterday will continue to happen.

 

I couldn't disagree more with the whole "play the game not the occasion", Wigan were completely up for it yesterday, shithoused a 4-0 win not playing great football but just pressing us, going in hard, whilst our players were pulling out of 50/50 tackles.

We can complain about the tactical side, but I think the reason why yesterday was so catastrophically bad was because the players just looked they weren't arsed. Even if one of just did a big tackle and for set off, at least it would've shown that they cared, but there wasn't, we just faded away like dust.

I noticed Iredale, Williams and Santos all pull out of 50/50’s yesterday - unacceptable.

Not sure you can dismiss the teams you do there!

Yes the record you highlight is shite, but we have won games against other local teams. They may not have a long standing history, but then again neither did Wigan in the 80s.

For me, at the moment, it's an issue against the better/more passionate teams, irrespective of whether they're local or not.

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Not sure you can dismiss the teams you do there!

Yes the record you highlight is shite, but we have won games against other local teams. They may not have a long standing history, but then again neither did Wigan in the 80s.

For me, at the moment, it's an issue against the better/more passionate teams, irrespective of whether they're local or not.

I am not dismissing anyone. I am saying they've got the right attitude to derby matches and we've got the wrong one.

5 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

I am not dismissing anyone. I am saying they've got the right attitude to derby matches and we've got the wrong one.

You excluded 3 local teams, as if they don't count. We've got decent records against them all.

 

30 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Obviously there's lot of talk about what went wrong in terms of tactics in yesterdays game but to my mind our problems in such fixtures run much deeper than the present day, Ian Evatt, our current squad. 

Here are the facts: 

• We are six games without a win against Preston dating back to 2001. - that includes three straight home defeats.
• We've won one of 10 league games v Blackpool since we started playing them again in 2010 after a long gap with no fixtures. We've not won at Bloomfield Road since 1977 (14 league and cup fixtures). Admittedly there are a lot of draws in these fixtures but its still not good enough. 
• Our most recent derby win (excluding Accrington, Morecambe, Fleetwood) came against Blackburn at Christmas 2015 when Madine scored a late winner for 1-0 in a dour league game. In December that'll be eight years ago! Before then we can at least say we won and lost fixtures v Blackburn in roughly equal measure.
• We've not won in four fixtures v Burnley and one in six. The last win was in February 2013 - ten years ago. 
• We are now seven games without a win v Wigan (six league games) including some horrible thumpings (5-2, 4-0, 4-0). Eight years since an FA Cup win in early 2015 and nine years since a league win (3-1 at home in 2014). 
• Bury are no longer with us in a recognisable form but anyone with longer memories will know what an utter meal we routinely made of fixtures v them. It sums up the malaise I am trying to describe. In the early 80s and 90s we sustained defeats against 2-3, 2-4, 1-4 and 1-3 home defeats against them of which yesterday's farce had echoes. We went 87 years without a win at Gigg Lane and although there were long gaps without a fixture there were enough for us to have won a few. It took ex Bury player Phil Parkinson to understand what it meant to them so that we finally got over the line with a 0-2 win there in 2016. 

You could lob in Accrington 7 Bolton 1 (and other gormless defeats to Stanley lately) and Stockport 5 Bolton 3 in recent times. 

What the fuck is wrong with us? 

I doubt you'll find another club in English football with such a sloppy attitude to derby matches against sides who want our scalp. It's irritated me for a long time - even more so now I've just spent 20 mins googling the facts. 

We badly need to buck our ideas up in these games. They're out of context of whatever season they're in and we're surrounded by clubs who love to beat us. We need to take the same one-off approach and gear ourselves up properly for such fixtures ... otherwise debacles like yesterday will continue to happen.

 

Best stay away from the facts, Paul!

Not sure you can compare all/some of fixtures from the past, you would have to look through every performance from that list, we may have played well in a good few of those games and been unfortunate to lose some. 

15 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

I am not dismissing anyone. I am saying they've got the right attitude to derby matches and we've got the wrong one.

So true. Im dreading the Blackpool fixture this season.

They will be bang up for it as ever, from the players to the fans. Will be talk of the town for weeks before.

Its ok though we don't need to be up for it. We only hate Man United and everyone else is tinpot.

25 minutes ago, Burndens Bogs said:

I noticed Iredale, Williams and Santos all pull out of 50/50’s yesterday - unacceptable.

Never thought I'd say this but Santos got bullied yesterday.In the 2nd half alone he shit out 3 times when going for a header

In terms of attitude, one team being bang up for it etc, the 5-3 at Stockport is a blinding comparison to yesterday 

11 minutes ago, gonzo said:

So true. Im dreading the Blackpool fixture this season.

They will be bang up for it as ever, from the players to the fans. Will be talk of the town for weeks before.

Its ok though we don't need to be up for it. We only hate Man United and everyone else is tinpot.

We hate the satsumas as well brother. Don’t fear.

We always fuck up big home games with a big crowd/away following, family fun day and local derbies etc.

To lose consecutive home league games 4-0 to Wigan is just totally and utterly unacceptable at every level.

Bottle merchants the lot of them. 

Some serious soul searching is needed about the manner of yesterdays collapse. 

 

20 minutes ago, gonzo said:

So true. Im dreading the Blackpool fixture this season.

They will be bang up for it as ever, from the players to the fans. Will be talk of the town for weeks before.

Its ok though we don't need to be up for it. We only hate Man United and everyone else is tinpot.

I always dread it because I know we won't match them for intensity. I'm not sure how we've managed to avoid a home defeat against them in the last decade or so. Twice we went 0-2 down before being jolted out of our slumber and there was another under Lennon when Eidur grabbed a 95th minute equaliser for us. At the time Blackpool were rock bottom and relegated in all but name. They turned up and played their hearts out while we only started looking interested 20 minutes from then end. You'd hope Evatt has an insight in to Blackpool's mentality like Parkinson did with Bury. But how can you have any confidence after yesterday? 

18 minutes ago, 1969 said:

Never thought I'd say this but Santos got bullied yesterday.In the 2nd half alone he shit out 3 times when going for a header

And was day dreaming for there first

11 minutes ago, onefinfrandsen said:

And was day dreaming for there first

That's why he's really not capable of playing at a higher level than he's at now

Dunno how the same strain of bottle merchantry runs through a Trigger's broom of a club and players, but it somehow does.

8 away wins at Wigan in 40 years since first playing them. I would think  that is Bolton's most successful total at any North West club over the last 40 years.

And some have Wigan down as a bogey team!

1 hour ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

8 away wins at Wigan in 40 years since first playing them. I would think  that is Bolton's most successful total at any North West club over the last 40 years.

And some have Wigan down as a bogey team!

How many in the last 20?

5 hours ago, Burndens Bogs said:

I noticed Iredale, Williams and Santos all pull out of 50/50’s yesterday - unacceptable.

I noticed that . can understand a striker pulling out of a 50 50 wouldn’t expect an Anelka going flying into one but all 3 of them are defenders for fuck sake show some balls and get stuck in 

9 minutes ago, gonzo said:

How many in the last 20?

Three of the 8. Allardyce won there once, Coyle twice

5 hours ago, gonzo said:

So true. Im dreading the Blackpool fixture this season.

They will be bang up for it as ever, from the players to the fans. Will be talk of the town for weeks before.

Its ok though we don't need to be up for it. We only hate Man United and everyone else is tinpot.

This sums it up for me.

 I was at the Wigan battering a couple of seasons ago & this just brought it all back. We can all take a loss but I’m fuming that we’ve let ourselves be turned over twice.

 What also pisses me off are the 50+ year old posters who want to dictate who are rivals are. 

Football rivalries are often fluid & Wigan are up there for the time being. They will likely be right behind us this season & they don’t appear to be going away like folk assume. 
 

Time to stop being arrogant & turn up for the big games. It was concerning in the play offs & this is too. Confident Evatt will address it 🤍

9 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

This sums it up for me.

 I was at the Wigan battering a couple of seasons ago & this just brought it all back. We can all take a loss but I’m fuming that we’ve let ourselves be turned over twice.

 What also pisses me off are the 50+ year old posters who want to dictate who are rivals are. 

Football rivalries are often fluid & Wigan are up there for the time being. They will likely be right behind us this season & they don’t appear to be going away like folk assume. 
 

Time to stop being arrogant & turn up for the big games. It was concerning in the play offs & this is too. Confident Evatt will address it 🤍

I don't think you can lay the problem at the door of the fans. We don't go out and play the game. The club itself/the management seem consistently to misunderstand what derby matches against us mean to various of our neighbours and it leaves us wide open. Evatt was saying he didn't see yesterday coming ... well he bloody well should have seen it coming. Wigan always play like they are on steroids against us. It'll be the same v Blackpool in November. We have to match it, or we will be in for more of the half baked nonsense we witnessed yesterday and some of the other shocking episodes of under-performance againt local rivals.

25 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

I don't think you can lay the problem at the door of the fans. We don't go out and play the game. The club itself/the management seem consistently to misunderstand what derby matches against us mean to various of our neighbours and it leaves us wide open. Evatt was saying he didn't see yesterday coming ... well he bloody well should have seen it coming. Wigan always play like they are on steroids against us. It'll be the same v Blackpool in November. We have to match it, or we will be in for more of the half baked nonsense we witnessed yesterday and some of the other shocking episodes of under-performance againt local rivals.

I agree. I wasn’t blaming the fans for yesterday’s performance either. 

Why are you bothered by those fans that don't see Wigan as a big rival though?

Folk can't help feel what they do, just human.

For me, it's not specifically that we were playing a big local Derby, but the fact that we were simply a bit biz against another strong team. Again.

We have to improve to get over the promotion hurdle.

4 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Why are you bothered by those fans that don't see Wigan as a big rival though?

Folk can't help feel what they do, just human.

For me, it's not specifically that we were playing a big local Derby, but the fact that we were simply a bit biz against another strong team. Again.

We have to improve to get over the promotion hurdle.

Not sure if that's addressed to me

It's irrelevant whether some Bolton fans think Wigan are big rival while others don't. The point is Wigan hate us and will always play well, well above their normal levels against us. That's what teams the world over tend to do when playing against the side you consider to be your arch-rival, which they do.

However, crucially, the club itself/the management, need also to appreciate the way the derby will make Wigan/the opposition play. This whole scenario plays out again v Blackpool in November. Blackpool hate us, be under no illusion. If we stroll in to that game like we did yesterday we will come unstuck. It's time for the staff at Bolton Wanderers to wake up and have the players ready for these occasions. They want our scalp, let's not meekly roll over for them.