We had a discussion on here a while back, which suggested quite a substantial opposition to the project.

Now that there are rumours that the Northern section will be scrapped, what are the views now?

I was always an opponent of it, though softened slightly when an expert lady explained in more detail about the capacity issues on the East and West Coast mainlines.

Also, when Virgin had the franchise, you could get London return for £45 on advance tickets. Absolutely no chance now of anything near that. Why has it changed?

Just now, Winchester White said:

Also, when Virgin had the franchise, you could get London return for £45 on advance tickets. Absolutely no chance now of anything near that. Why has it changed?

The overseas owners of Avanti want more money?

24 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

Also, when Virgin had the franchise, you could get London return for £45 on advance tickets. Absolutely no chance now of anything near that. Why has it changed?

Branson is an über prick but he at least got a decent train service running. Not sure if Avanti have actually improved/replaced any of Virgins rolling stock certainly didn't look like it over the summer when I rode one.

34 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

Branson is an über prick but he at least got a decent train service running. Not sure if Avanti have actually improved/replaced any of Virgins rolling stock certainly didn't look like it over the summer when I rode one.

Virgin had the tilting trains, not sure are getting better than that outside HS2?

Not sure why Branson cops for so much aggro. Pretty much everything he’s done seems to have been a success.

Flown on his planes a few times and they’ve always been top drawer. The trains were too.

Not sure I’d go on one of his rockets though.

As for the politics of HS2, this one is on all of them. They’ve all made a mess.

3 minutes ago, Spider said:

Not sure why Branson cops for so much aggro. Pretty much everything he’s done seems to have been a success.

Same with musk 

But I can see why everyone thinks he's a cunt

Never really noticed Branson other than seeing him smiling on TV when he opened or launched things in the 90s 

Before Twitter I guess

2 hours ago, Spider said:

Not sure why Branson cops for so much aggro. Pretty much everything he’s done seems to have been a success.

Flown on his planes a few times and they’ve always been top drawer. The trains were too.

Not sure I’d go on one of his rockets though.

As for the politics of HS2, this one is on all of them. They’ve all made a mess.

His cruise fleet is decent too.

Message me for details 😉

from a Leeds perspective , the original HS2 proposals knocked about an hour of the 2hr 20 min journey to London, revised proposals knock about 20 mins off so simply not worth it. Have lived over here for forty years now and bet I have not driven to London more than 10 times and then it would be because we were doing something in London that needed a car. The train is fine. 
In terms of cross country unless was on a boozy do I would always drive to Manchester, Liverpool , Birmingham  etc because the service is so slow (nearly 2 hours to Brum) 

The fact that Leeds to Manchester is about 45 miles and the train takes 50 minutes for the express service and about 80 minutes on the rattler it is quicker to drive. From a passenger view the latest version of HS2 seems a waste but can not comment about freight side.

My only question is what are the alternatives, having said the trains up and down are ok, they are very quickly disrupted by seemingly minor issues and  as soon as one train goes slowly the system is fucked so something needs to improve. 

Is 50 minutes from Leeds to Manchester really such an issue?

Approximately 60mph.

If the trains were regular, on time and not overcrowded would everyone be satisfied?

 

56 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Is 50 minutes from Leeds to Manchester really such an issue?

Approximately 60mph.

If the trains were regular, on time and not overcrowded would everyone be satisfied?

 

Given the old intercity trains could do 125mph and the pendelinos are capped at 125 too. The French TGV all run at 200mph the fact Leeds to Manchester works out at 60mph shows how behind the times the service is.

Running at proper speeds the trains would be nearly back at Manchester by the time the current train is arriving in Leeds 

Edited September 27, 20232 yr by frank_spencer

16 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

Given the old intercity trains could do 125mph and the pendelinos are capped at 125 too. The French TGV all run at 200mph the fact Leeds to Manchester works out at 60mph shows how behind the times the service is.

Running at proper speeds the trains would be nearly back at Manchester by the time the current train is arriving in Leeds 

I listened to a discussion about this the other day.

Someone had used the Japanese bullet trains as comparison. Its was pointed out that apparently Japan is well over 2000 miles long. Manchester to London is a couple of hundred give or take.

Additionally, the local Japanese trains run at around 40mph, so it's not all as painted.

The point being made is that a huge investment could be made to put a high speed link east-west but would it actually represent value for money. Would it not be better to have slightly quicker trains, but more of them and increased capacity.

I would expect that France is another example where a lower population density makes such lines cheaper and easier to build, by causing less disruption. 

Looking at the work I linked to, should the trans pennine upgrade be delivered on time etc then that will solve the issues, without the need for additional spending on super quick trains and infrastructure, which would only save a couple of minutes or so more than this upgrade will deliver.

27 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

Given the old intercity trains could do 125mph and the pendelinos are capped at 125 too. The French TGV all run at 200mph the fact Leeds to Manchester works out at 60mph shows how behind the times the service is.

Running at proper speeds the trains would be nearly back at Manchester by the time the current train is arriving in Leeds 

If it was an express Manchester to Leeds then it may have a chance of reaching those speeds

But if it stops at Huddersfield etc then it'll never reach those speeds or as soon as it does it'll be slowing down 

And it'll take an age to get going out of Piccadilly as always seems to be the case 

17 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

 

Someone had used the Japanese bullet trains as comparison. Its was pointed out that apparently Japan is well over 2000 miles long. Manchester to London is a couple of hundred give or take.

 

Across the four main islands it might be, but I'd be surprised if Honshu is much bigger than the UK

however Japan do it

do that

bullet trains that do 180-200mph for cross country and everything is on time to the second

impressive stuff

34 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Across the four main islands it might be, but I'd be surprised if Honshu is much bigger than the UK

I took the guy's word for it, and Google seems to confirm. Perhaps there are bridges, I've no idea how it works.

Another bloke has just discussed the arse about face nature of the hs2 project.

Once the company was created, then parliament spent years debating it, with various people and groups having their two penneth worth.

Only after that were designers and engineers brought in to produce routes/costs etc.

You'd have thought that the companies first job would have been to get engineers, designers and planners in first off, two produce an accurate picture of what would be required for whatever route.

Anyway, there is still a big fuck off argument over it, with both main parties having differing opinions amongst their own mps etc.

Maybe we need a referendum!

A railway tunnel connects them.

12 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I took the guy's word for it, and Google seems to confirm. Perhaps there are bridges, I've no idea how it works.

Another bloke has just discussed the arse about face nature of the hs2 project.

Once the company was created, then parliament spent years debating it, with various people and groups having their two penneth worth.

Only after that were designers and engineers brought in to produce routes/costs etc.

You'd have thought that the companies first job would have been to get engineers, designers and planners in first off, two produce an accurate picture of what would be required for whatever route.

Anyway, there is still a big fuck off argument over it, with both main parties having differing opinions amongst their own mps etc.

Maybe we need a referendum!

Where are you listening to these discussions?

6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Where are you listening to these discussions?

Wherever I can gather information. Obviously our mayor is having his say, as well as a current sitting mp, who described the process by which hs2 has been created. A member of the transport select Committee. 

I'm sure we all remember debates and squabbling in parliament, and then revelations of route issues later.

I'd rather listen to an mp who has sat in parliament and witnessed the process than someone who hasn't. 

Process apart, there are clear differences between mps over what is the best way of spending money on transport links, and that will continue to rumble on.

To be honest, we will only ever know the true value of such a project if we go through with it, and balance it against costs, but you can understand concerns at the current level of projected investment.

Really no idea any more as to whether it should be finished having done so much, or whether it should be halted at Birmingham.

Can't help thinking that it should have been a freight line to take stuff off the roads, and not necessarily something that would knock half an hour off a passenger journey.

9 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Wherever I can gather information. Obviously our mayor is having his say, as well as a current sitting mp, who described the process by which hs2 has been created. A member of the transport select Committee. 

I'm sure we all remember debates and squabbling in parliament, and then revelations of route issues later.

I'd rather listen to an mp who has sat in parliament and witnessed the process than someone who hasn't. 

Process apart, there are clear differences between mps over what is the best way of spending money on transport links, and that will continue to rumble on.

To be honest, we will only ever know the true value of such a project if we go through with it, and balance it against costs, but you can understand concerns at the current level of projected investment.

Really no idea any more as to whether it should be finished having done so much, or whether it should be halted at Birmingham.

Can't help thinking that it should have been a freight line to take stuff off the roads, and not necessarily something that would knock half an hour off a passenger journey.

Who was the fella who claimed Japan was a single 2000-mile-long island?

19 hours ago, tomski said:

Ah good old Dave cunty chops. He’s done so much for so many. 

I miss the shiny faced rascal

18 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Who was the fella who claimed Japan was a single 2000-mile-long island?

No one did.

2 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I listened to a discussion about this the other day.

Someone had used the Japanese bullet trains as comparison. Its was pointed out that apparently Japan is well over 2000 miles long. Manchester to London is a couple of hundred give or take.

 

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

No one did.

Eh?

5 minutes ago, Cheese said:

 

Eh?

He was discussing their rail link, as I said.

A touch of research shows he's correct, as rail tunnels connect the big islands.

Instead of trying to catch folk out, feel free to do what I do, and have a quick look to check if something seems odd at first.

It's quite informative too- world's deepest rail tunnel apparently. 

It look more than likely that Sunak will pull the plug on the Northern leg and will come up with some BS about fiscal policy and cost of war in Ukraine.

What the coward won't do is announce before the Tory party conference in Manchester next week.