Barnsley (A)

[Tombwfc]

28 minutes ago, only1swanny said:

Think i'd be gutted to see either Lolos, Randall or Schon leave as it's just not worked out for them.

Think we need a whole new back line though, we've shipped far too many goals, 

Sheehan and GT is a wierd one, on their day they are amazing but they just seem passengers at time and I feel as a midfield duo, they're just not right for us, they're not getting the ball up and where it should be, JM and AC aren't getting the service, 

Will be a very interesting closed season to see who is sold off cheaply, and who is given extra training.. 

But SS has inherited a squad of skilled players who can only play in their one roll, and seemingly a plethora of central attacking midfielders that roll their socks down..

Quite controversially (or maybe not), I feel Tutu goes missing at times, and just doesn't have the end product. You can skip past and turn as many players as you want, if they know you wont shoot, they'll let you till you tire yourself our...

 

I don't think the latter can be that controversial. One goal and two assists in 31 appearances. He's 26 and averages an assist every 15 games across his career.

He'll be perfectly fine as a squad player and an option to bring some pace off the bench. But he's never a starting winger in a team serious about going up.

[desperado]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

This squad needs absolutely ripping apart, otherwise we’re in for the same nearly but not quite next season.

Talk of players not leaving. No player wants a season out of a team when they’re in L1 because they need their next deal. They can’t afford to just sit there and sulk and take their year’s worth of wage because there’s a bigger chance that there won’t be one after it. If you want a player gone then I’m of the view that SS will have them out.

“The squad needs ripping apart” is a debate that’s going to rumble on for months now.

Certain players, like Schon, I suspect are going to split opinion. Plenty of others too.

From Zicos list earlier there’s 7/8 I don’t think have a future. To think it will be more seems a bit unrealistic to me.

But happy to keep debating as everyone is going to have a different opinion, which I’ll respect.

Just questioning your last comment “If you want a player gone then I’m of the view that SS will have them out”, not to be argumentative, but just to explain a bit further as I don’t understand it.

Is the “you” the fans? If we want a player gone then SS will have them out? Maybe I’m reading it wrong or misinterpreting, as I can’t see SS just getting rid because the fans don’t like a player.

If you mean SS and his coaches don’t  fancy a player, then I’m sure they’ll do all they can to either let them go or tell the player/agent to try and move on etc as he won’t want a player who he feels has no future at the club.

I thought folk shouting get rid of the whole squad were just a bit angry on Saturday 

But if people actually think:

1/ He doesn’t want the majority of the squad  

2/ Sharon will let him get rid regardless 

3/ He’s moving out 10/15 players who are under contract easily 

4/ And he does all this and creates a fresh team from nothing to win the league with 100 points, otherwise he’s failed because he’s not got us promoted…

Then I’m not sure what world people are living in.

Edited April 14, 2025 by desperado

[Rizlar]

Excellent debate and good to read other posters opinions about players and changes more I think about it the more I feel it’s time for certain players to leave not just for the clubs sake but for there  own  career. 
Santos and GJ will more than likely leave but Johnson and Sheehan need to go as well all 4 have been here a while and are part of the problem with regards to mentality they have been good players for us but time to move on just my opinion 
 

 

[Farnywhite]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

Talk of players not leaving. No player wants a season out of a team when they’re in L1 because they need their next deal. They can’t afford to just sit there and sulk and take their year’s worth of wage because there’s a bigger chance that there won’t be one after it. If you want a player gone then I’m of the view that SS will have them out.

But any player  wanting to sit on a one year deal will get game  time next season because we don’t have a budget or squad depth to say well if you don’t leave in the summer your going to sit in the B team .for 12 months it’s not happening

Baxter , santos , jones when not injured have all sat on a year deal and played . probably santos and Baxter have  already sorted there next move out behind the scenes 

 

Edited April 14, 2025 by Farnywhite

[Stig]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Agreed. 

However, he's shit like the rest, and needs to go as part of a total clear out apparently. 

Have I been watching a different player all season. Yes Lolos is tall, but to me he looks another lightweight sock down merchant who's about as far away from the hard man strikers and midfielders we need

[Farnywhite]

Lolos for me as never really been given a run of games got injured first game at orient out for a few months by then  . Evatt had changed the system which it looked liked he bought him for in the summer the plan B by the time he was back 

[Zog1]

These lightweight attackers and midfielders behind much of our issues today could be Championship level, when paired with the right combination of player.

SS has to find out which ones are being held back, and which ones are just not good enough.

Why does Morley look poor along side Sheehan and Thomason? is Sheehan too weak? Are Sheehan and Morley too similar? are the wing backs and strikers getting on the end of their balls able to hold up and move the ball effectively. 

It's such a ball ache of a thing to have to analyse.

SS and the team have a lot of work to do. For the rest of the season as long as they don't get rolled, even if they lose the last 4 games the players have a bit of a pass from me, it's upto them to show their value to the club.

 

[RONNIE PHILLIPS]

2 hours ago, Steejay said:

Anyway, I thought we needed bastards, not cunts.

What's changed?

Cunts are useful 😀

[Eddie]

8 hours ago, desperado said:

“The squad needs ripping apart” is a debate that’s going to rumble on for months now.

Certain players, like Schon, I suspect are going to split opinion. Plenty of others too.

From Zicos list earlier there’s 7/8 I don’t think have a future. To think it will be more seems a bit unrealistic to me.

But happy to keep debating as everyone is going to have a different opinion, which I’ll respect.

Just questioning your last comment “If you want a player gone then I’m of the view that SS will have them out”, not to be argumentative, but just to explain a bit further as I don’t understand it.

Is the “you” the fans? If we want a player gone then SS will have them out? Maybe I’m reading it wrong or misinterpreting, as I can’t see SS just getting rid because the fans don’t like a player.

If you mean SS and his coaches don’t  fancy a player, then I’m sure they’ll do all they can to either let them go or tell the player/agent to try and move on etc as he won’t want a player who he feels has no future at the club.

I thought folk shouting get rid of the whole squad were just a bit angry on Saturday 

But if people actually think:

1/ He doesn’t want the majority of the squad  

2/ Sharon will let him get rid regardless 

3/ He’s moving out 10/15 players who are under contract easily 

4/ And he does all this and creates a fresh team from nothing to win the league with 100 points, otherwise he’s failed because he’s not got us promoted…

Then I’m not sure what world people are living in.

Poor English on my part. My point was that if SS wants rid of a player then I think it’s more than likely that it will happen. There aren’t many players in L1 that are going to take the risk of hardly playing all season / being a bit part player because they’re very much dependent on the next contract.

Of course there will be some that will just say fuck off im staying here and there’s nothing you can do about it, but I think this idea that they’re under contract so there’s no way we can get rid of them is a bit wide of the mark. It might cost us a bit, we might not get the value for them that we’d ideally like, but if SS is absolutely certain that a player is not in his plans then I’d expect them to leave one way or another, contracted or not.

As for the idea of ripping it up or not. I’m usually pretty lenient and definitely more half full than half empty, but I think that’s part of the problem. So many of them have got away with being ‘nearly men’, they’ve always kept their heads above water by winning enough of the shit games. We get frustrated when they bottle it yet again, but then they beat Northampton and Crawley at home and we think that they’re alright actually and can actually get us somewhere.

In reality, he’s obviously not going to get rid of 20 players, but I really wouldn’t be surprised to see 10 go (incl. returning loans and end of contract). I honestly think it needs to be of that severity to properly change the mindset of this squad - adding 2 or 3 isn’t going to change the underlying problem, it just continues to be be too nice and lenient to the underperforming bunch of bottle jobs.

[Ani]

Watching the EFL highlights earlier.

If any defender other than Forino got danced round like he did for first goal there would be a lot more grief heading their way. Imagine if it was Santos !

Also where was the midfield. Pretty much summed up our performance. Shite . 

[desperado]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

Poor English on my part. My point was that if SS wants rid of a player then I think it’s more than likely that it will happen. There aren’t many players in L1 that are going to take the risk of hardly playing all season / being a bit part player because they’re very much dependent on the next contract.

Of course there will be some that will just say fuck off im staying here and there’s nothing you can do about it, but I think this idea that they’re under contract so there’s no way we can get rid of them is a bit wide of the mark. It might cost us a bit, we might not get the value for them that we’d ideally like, but if SS is absolutely certain that a player is not in his plans then I’d expect them to leave one way or another, contracted or not.

As for the idea of ripping it up or not. I’m usually pretty lenient and definitely more half full than half empty, but I think that’s part of the problem. So many of them have got away with being ‘nearly men’, they’ve always kept their heads above water by winning enough of the shit games. We get frustrated when they bottle it yet again, but then they beat Northampton and Crawley at home and we think that they’re alright actually and can actually get us somewhere.

In reality, he’s obviously not going to get rid of 20 players, but I really wouldn’t be surprised to see 10 go (incl. returning loans and end of contract). I honestly think it needs to be of that severity to properly change the mindset of this squad - adding 2 or 3 isn’t going to change the underlying problem, it just continues to be be too nice and lenient to the underperforming bunch of bottle jobs.

Cheers for the response pal.

A good detailed one, which I think shows we’re not a million miles away from each other.

I said 7/8 to go, you said 10.

I think 4/5 new additions (better quality with different characteristics to what we have). I sense you think more.

It looks like I feel there’s more of our current squad who can still impact positively on a promotion push next season, but I understand yours and  others opinion that you think this is less.

I’m still of the opinion that folk’s claims of “I’d only keep….they can all fuck off…squad needs ripping apart (as in mass departures of most of them)… none of them care….SS will start with more new signings next year….. I never want to see (insert any name from Saturday) play for us again..”

- Are emotive responses after a bad defeat Saturday

- Are unrealistic responses due to the nature of moving on mass amounts of players 

- Are detached from the workings of our football club if they think all those changes and upheaval will result in a magical promotion push next season.

[Steejay]

9 minutes ago, desperado said:

Cheers for the response pal.

A good detailed one, which I think shows we’re not a million miles away from each other.

I said 7/8 to go, you said 10.

I think 4/5 new additions (better quality with different characteristics to what we have). I sense you think more.

It looks like I feel there’s more of our current squad who can still impact positively on a promotion push next season, but I understand yours and  others opinion that you think this is less.

I’m still of the opinion that folk’s claims of “I’d only keep….they can all fuck off…squad needs ripping apart (as in mass departures of most of them)… none of them care….SS will start with more new signings next year….. I never want to see (insert any name from Saturday) play for us again..”

- Are emotive responses after a bad defeat Saturday

- Are unrealistic responses due to the nature of moving on mass amounts of players 

- Are detached from the workings of our football club if they think all those changes and upheaval will result in a magical promotion push next season.

I don’t think folks think that major upheaval will result in a magical promotion push necessarily, but that promotion push will definitely not be happening with this group of players.

 

Edited April 15, 2025 by Steejay

[desperado]

3 minutes ago, Steejay said:

I don’t think folks think that major upheaval will result in a magical promotion push necessarily, but that promotion push will definitely not be happening with this group of players.

 

There’s a few mate who’ve expressed the opinion that most of these players aren’t good enough, they can leave and that mass changes can be made to achieve promotion next year.

SS’s latest comments suggest he’s not writing them off as much as folk on here. And he still sees some qualities that these players can fight to get out of this division. (Who knows when)

Points I’ve been making since Saturday:

- “I’m not going to get carried away,” he told The Bolton Nes. “It’s a bad performance and I haven’t seen many of those.

- “to have one bad performance out of 14, that isn’t bad.”

- “We scrapped at Wigan, we scrapped against Bristol Rovers, we’ve gone away from home and shown we can fight, went toe-to-toe with Burton, so they have shown they can do it.

- “As far as physicality goes, there are areas of the pitch that we feel as though we can get stronger in. And that’s speed – it doesn’t mean big, physical units. It means speed and people who compete. And I’ve said it in every one of the games that we've been here. We have competed in every one of them and not lost by more than a goal with one exception (Barnsley), so they don’t give up. They definitely don't do that.”

[desperado]

The post above was more about highlighting and countering this view that SS doesn’t see any qualities in the squad he’s got. 

For balance I get he has to remain positive while there’s still a chance of promotion. 

He also points out some home truths

“We know, though, that to lose six games, four out of the last six, you can’t do that and hope to get promoted.”

“That's not what a team who can go on and get out of this division is about. So, we have to try and find a way of being better.”

“I don't want to comment on what's gone on before,” he said. “We got here, and I can only judge things by what I've seen”

“the performance at Barnsley was “nowhere near” the level required for a side with play-off aspirations

“It's just doing it consistently and not coming off the level. If you do drop off against a decent team then you get punished.”

[Ani]

Our use of the loan market this year has been terrible, so even a slight improvement there can only help. In all likelihood we going to finish just outside te play offs so the idea we need to rebuild from scratch is not true.

2 keepers are good enough.

Forester and Forino are good enough

Jones feels like he has run his race and Santos moving is best all round. Still rate him but nothing positive around him in last 6 months, thanks and good bye. Johnstone has suffered by people thinking he was better than he was before injury but as left sided defender would not be a nightmare if he stayed. Toal get properly fit and see, one of the few that contributes goals. So realistically keep 4 and lose 2 . 
 

JDC , Schon and Tutu not brilliant but other areas bigger priority. Schon and Tutu need to decide where they actually play

Morley and Dempsey are good enough. 
 

Sheehan time to move on. George T. I think is better than others think, in no form at the moment but at least has ‘legs’ .

CMG Lolos and Randel totally non descript players who have all been disappointing not bothered if they stay or go, feel there has to be more to come. Type of players who will come back and have great games against us.
 

Collins keep. McAtee biggest disappointment of the season acts like a leader when all good but nothing when things turn, hopefully more to come. 

Incoming - Amazed if Ennis from Blackpool ( (on loan from Stoke)does not come to lead the attack. But he is not a prolific striker.

The midfield leader/captain we have been crying out for, maybe an older head on loan ?

We are not a million miles off. Despite how it felt on Saturday.  

 

[Ani]

I agree with questioning the character of the players but the difference some serious leadership during games and in training could make a massive difference. 

[ianofcleveleys]

11 minutes ago, Ani said:

Our use of the loan market this year has been terrible, so even a slight improvement there can only help.

You're right there, we fell from getting in real promising talents from top Prem clubs to outcasts / crocks from mid to bottom end of Champ. Hopefully the new DoF will be able to exploit some good contacts and get us a couple in that are back to the sort of levels of Bradley, Maghoma, even Fossey before them. 

[gonzo]

2 hours ago, Ani said:

Watching the EFL highlights earlier.

If any defender other than Forino got danced round like he did for first goal there would be a lot more grief heading their way. Imagine if it was Santos !

Also where was the midfield. Pretty much summed up our performance. Shite . 

Our midfield is where the bulk our problems come from. We are either all too all too high or all too deep  

Big pockets of space all over the show. Our forwards are constantly isolated yet there's always gaping holes in front of the back 3.

This 3/5 at the back malarkey will always lend itself to such.

 

Edited April 15, 2025 by gonzo

[meanderson93]

1 hour ago, Ani said:

Sheehan time to move on. George T. I think is better than others think, in no form at the moment but at least has ‘legs’ .

The midfield leader/captain we have been crying out for, maybe an older head on loan ?

We are not a million miles off. Despite how it felt on Saturday.  

 

Conversely, I think Thomason is actually much worse than others think, and he gets away with it purely because he runs about a bit. 

To your Midfield leader type you've referenced, Kyprianou at Peterborough who scored a cracker at Wembley over the weekend, is out of contract this summer. Only 23 but played over 100 games at League 1 level now, 6'2", proper midfielder and not shy from a goal or two. 

Him and Morley together with a proper #10 ahead of them, set up very similar to how Wycombe were with Morley on loan first half of the season would be my preference going into next season. 

[Ani]

12 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Our midfield is where the bulk our problems come from. We are either all too all too high or all too deep  

Big pockets of space all over the show. Our forwards are constantly isolated yet there's always gaping holes in front of the back 3.

This 3/5 at the back malarkey will always lend itself to such.

 

I think this goes back to the ‘legs’ argument in  midfield. Personally I think even with 3 in there and certainly with 2 you need players who can cover the pitch. Which is where Sheehan struggles, with Morley, Dempsey and Tommo in there we are much more mobile. Add in the elusive captain/leader and that is really solid, but it would mean 4 at the back. 

[Ani]

15 minutes ago, meanderson93 said:

Conversely, I think Thomason is actually much worse than others think, and he gets away with it purely because he runs about a bit. 

To your Midfield leader type you've referenced, Kyprianou at Peterborough who scored a cracker at Wembley over the weekend, is out of contract this summer. Only 23 but played over 100 games at League 1 level now, 6'2", proper midfielder and not shy from a goal or two. 

Him and Morley together with a proper #10 ahead of them, set up very similar to how Wycombe were with Morley on loan first half of the season would be my preference going into next season. 

I think in midfield running around a lot is needed and Tomo does more of that than the others at the moment. Do not get me wrong we could improve on him but the work he does covering gets overlooked at times. 
 

I think the biggest factor is leadership said before we must have had nearly 10 different captains this season , none of them made a jot of distance. Dempsey closest we have to captain material but injuries affect him. 

 

[ianofcleveleys]

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

Our midfield is where the bulk our problems come from. We are either all too all too high or all too deep  

Big pockets of space all over the show. Our forwards are constantly isolated yet there's always gaping holes in front of the back 3.

This 3/5 at the back malarkey will always lend itself to such.

 

Roy Keane's rant about Harvey Barnes running right through Man U to score could have applied to umpteen we've shifted. We lose the ball too easily higher up the pitch, teams quickly shift it back out way and we either give a cheap foul away dragging someone back or don't catch them and they're in on our back three. 

[ianofcleveleys]

47 minutes ago, Ani said:

I think this goes back to the ‘legs’ argument in  midfield. Personally I think even with 3 in there and certainly with 2 you need players who can cover the pitch. Which is where Sheehan struggles, with Morley, Dempsey and Tommo in there we are much more mobile. Add in the elusive captain/leader and that is really solid, but it would mean 4 at the back. 

His hands are more than a bit tied a bit with injuries by the look of it but I'd be surprised if SS didn't have another look at a 4 from kick off before the season's out, if only as a pre-cursor to how he might set up next season.