Euro 24

[Pablo]

2 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

And that is why England are an imbalanced team - not because of Southgate but because we don't have a "top top" defence or defensive midfield despite the media bullshit hype which focuses on the frontline options.

Reality is we have a makeshift defence of players who wouldn't get anywhere near the team of the tournament, bar Walker who has an outside chance and even he gets mugged occasionally.

Conversely we have a plethora of good forwards - but it would take some nads to sacrifice one or more of them to shore up the back by playing e.g. Wharton alongside Rice and/or playing an extra CB.

We've gone instead for chucking on attackers and it's scraped us through to here - and realistically, it's our level - could be argued we've already overachieved, thanks in part to not having to face the attacking prowess of Germany, Portugal, Spain or France.

Beating Holland would be a bonus, but we have a chance as they've overachieved as well.

 

 

Yea, would agree with most of that.

Although I think Manoo has bee superb, and shows what a forward thinking footballing midfielder can do.

People see 2 central midfielder and auto think "oooh 2 holder" - But that’s not the case at all.

I think Rice is stuck between the Defensive mid, and wanting to be "an 8"....David Moyes said in a podcast that it was Rice's frustration that last season at West Ham, that he wanted to get forward more, but he was more affective n the deeper role....for me he just does not carry that technical on the ball ability that Euro midfielders do.

As you and others have said, we over-rate players and Rice is one of those, he is very very good. But is he was at Real Madrid, he is 6th choice midfielder.....they may even play him centre back.

If we want a deep lying playmaker - Stones would be better than Rice due to how good he can pass....but then we miss our best defender too.

 

Edited July 8, 2024 by Pablo

[Pablo]

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

They also have Jorginho, still one of the best in that holding position. 

Defo, he is an example of the type of player we just don't produce in England.

 

[1969]

3 minutes ago, L/H White said:

apart from Van Dijk, no other Dutch player would get near our starting 11

5-0

I'll have a pint of what you've had

0-0 borefest and we lose in extra time 

[Pablo]

Said it so so many times, its not the formation for me thats an issue...its the mentality of they squad....and thats from the manager. I think he either saps confidence or attacking instinct out of them OR its designed for them to not take risks and revert to sitting back at times.

Every single team plays minimum 2 central midfielders....but nobody calls them "holders" - They are just midfielders, thats all. Nobody cried about themj being negative and cries for 8 number 10's to play!!!

None of these other nations messa round with formations just to shoe-horn recent good performers. They sit on the bench waiting to make an impact.

 

Edited July 8, 2024 by Pablo

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 hours ago, L/H White said:

apart from Van Dijk, no other Dutch player would get near our starting 11

5-0

Has VVD been as good this season; for both club and country?

Had a poor one earlier in the competition. 

Are his best days behind him?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 hours ago, Pablo said:

Said it so so many times, its not the formation for me thats an issue...its the mentality of they squad....and thats from the manager. I think he either saps confidence or attacking instinct out of them OR its designed for them to not take risks and revert to sitting back at times.

Every single team plays minimum 2 central midfielders....but nobody calls them "holders" - They are just midfielders, thats all. Nobody cried about themj being negative and cries for 8 number 10's to play!!!

None of these other nations messa round with formations just to shoe-horn recent good performers. They sit on the bench waiting to make an impact.

 

Aye.

Each to their own, but surely Bellingham can be given the freedom to simply boss a midfield?

So far he's largely been wasted- often out on the left for example.

He appears frustrated, which I think comes back to your points about the manager.

Risk averse, and draining confidence.

They seem scared of making a mistake. 

Whether they are or not in reality, that's the impression. 

[gonzo]

19 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Has VVD been as good this season; for both club and country?

Had a poor one earlier in the competition. 

Are his best days behind him?

Said on wireless today Watkins has 6 in 5 against him.

[frank_spencer]

3 hours ago, L/H White said:

apart from Van Dijk, no other Dutch player would get near our starting 11

5-0

Van De Ven, Ake and De Ligt all walk in to the England defence 

[Pablo]

53 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Aye.

Each to their own, but surely Bellingham can be given the freedom to simply boss a midfield?

So far he's largely been wasted- often out on the left for example.

He appears frustrated, which I think comes back to your points about the manager.

Risk averse, and draining confidence.

They seem scared of making a mistake. 

Whether they are or not in reality, that's the impression. 

I think its all down to the manager and those negative manager points, without a doubt for me.

He plays free for Real, like we are letting him now..positionally anyway. Just complete opposite mentality with coaches.

Also....for Real Madrid they play 3 midfielder behind him....and for England everyone seems to want 1!!!!

 

Edited July 8, 2024 by Pablo

[Tonge moor green jacket]

3 minutes ago, Pablo said:

I think its all down to the manager and those negative manager points, without a doubt for me.

He plays free for Real, like we are letting him now..positionally anyway. Just complete opposite mentality with coaches.

Also....for Real Madrid they play 3 midfielder behind him....and for England everyone seems to want 1!!!!

 

It's a case of what works best with the squad we have.

For whatever reason, it's not worked particularly well with JB playing so far forward.

His best game was the first: he played all over, even if his position was further forward. He'd win the ball deep and immediately drive forward. Was excellent. 

Not done that since, and has largely remained further forward.

Just hope it comes together better for Wednesday. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

47 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Said on wireless today Watkins has 6 in 5 against him.

Get him in!

 

[Wanderlust]

I thought the Switzerland game was begging for Watkins to replace Kane at HT. Not the greatest finisher but his work rate is phenomenal and he'd have pulled their defence all over the shop with his runs.

[gonzo]

2 hours ago, Pablo said:

I think its all down to the manager and those negative manager points, without a doubt for me.

He plays free for Real, like we are letting him now..positionally anyway. Just complete opposite mentality with coaches.

Also....for Real Madrid they play 3 midfielder behind him....and for England everyone seems to want 1!!!!

 

Those 3 behind are way more advanced and way more attack minded players than Rice and Trent/Gallagher/Mainoo 

Like you say it's fine having 2 deeper midfielders, loads do it, but not just with the handbrake on like ours.

 

 

[deeane Koontz]

From what i seen from Jude at Madrid there was no bossing of games or playing deeper he was drifting around the periphery of games way up the field and getting in the box with well timed runs and bagging. Not much room to do that with Foden and that big galoot up front

[deeane Koontz]

Play way too slow also. So that doesn't help

Edited July 8, 2024 by deeane Koontz

[Mounts Kipper]

34 minutes ago, deeane Koontz said:

Play way too slow also. So that doesn't help

That’s why we create so few chances and are utterly depressing to watch. 

[gonzo]

44 minutes ago, deeane Koontz said:

From what i seen from Jude at Madrid there was no bossing of games or playing deeper he was drifting around the periphery of games way up the field and getting in the box with well timed runs and bagging. Not much room to do that with Foden and that big galoot up front

It's like trying to build a flat pack with your Dad lumbering about trying to help and just getting in the way.

Just fuck off and make a brew or summet

Edited July 8, 2024 by gonzo

[Tonge moor green jacket]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cjk3xgk2y87o.amp

Kinell.

English ref gets pelters for not giving the krauts a pen (rightly apparently) and now we get this.

 

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, deeane Koontz said:

Play way too slow also. So that doesn't help

It’s my biggest annoyance with the way we (Bolton and England) play - that obvious and deliberate lack of intensity. Slow the ball down and keep it, if we’ve got it then they can’t score, try and plot your way to your opening. I get the theory but it makes it really fucking hard to inject any kind of urgency when you need it, there’s an apathy that builds in both the team and the crowd which snowballs and it’s very hard to turn it around when you need to. It tends to lead to sloppy, under hit passes, being second to a loose ball and players (Santos) stood static with the ball at feet and arms out wide.

The best teams keep that balance of possession but intensity that goes with it and I think both England and Bolton don’t quite have it.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

36 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I get the theory but it makes it really fucking hard to inject any kind of urgency when you need it, there’s an apathy that builds in both the team and the crowd which snowballs and it’s very hard to turn it around when you need to.

This is the point I made to people claiming the atmosphere at home was shit last season

The style of football just doesn't lend itself to a big atmosphere

[gonzo]

There's only Man City can do it properly. They can ping it about that fast and well it just baffles teams, they know when to pull the trigger and split the defence.

Our lot and England don't have a clue. 

Collymore has banging the drum about players driving at and attacking defenders for ages, our stats are pathetic, we just don't run at other teams with any form of intensity.

Same with Wanderers. All that standing about. Just bloody run towards their goal. 

Edited July 9, 2024 by gonzo

[tomski]

Very much excited about tomorrow despite all the doom and gloom (fair) above. Can’t say the same about the wanderers sadly😳

We were miles better against Switzerland and this gut feeling preserves that we’ve only just started.

I rate the Swiss more than the Dutch but don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion by any stretch.

Our head to head is incredibly close at 7 wins to our 6 and hopefully it will be closer by tomorrow night.

On another note, as a neutral I’d rather Spain win tonight. Thinking with our England hats on and it may be better to play the surrender monkeys. Though I don’t think there’s a lot in it because if they click then it’s tough opposition.

[L/H White]

1 hour ago, tomski said:

Very much excited about tomorrow despite all the doom and gloom (fair) above. Can’t say the same about the wanderers sadly😳

We were miles better against Switzerland and this gut feeling preserves that we’ve only just started.

I rate the Swiss more than the Dutch but don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion by any stretch.

Our head to head is incredibly close at 7 wins to our 6 and hopefully it will be closer by tomorrow night.

On another note, as a neutral I’d rather Spain win tonight. Thinking with our England hats on and it may be better to play the surrender monkeys. Though I don’t think there’s a lot in it because if they click then it’s tough opposition.

Spain are streets ahead of France for me, massive drop off and still to score from open play 

[Zico]

Just now, L/H White said:

Spain are streets ahead of France for me, massive drop off and still to score from open play 

MBappe was flagging at end of season for Paris, chuck in this broken nose and he's just not playing anywhere near 100% 

They'd probably have a better chance if they dropped him

[L/H White]

1 minute ago, Zico said:

MBappe was flagging at end of season for Paris, chuck in this broken nose and he's just not playing anywhere near 100% 

They'd probably have a better chance if they dropped him

this is the 2nd euros he's flopped at (can still turn it around i suppose)

fraud