As suggested by @Johnnyrotten splitting this off from the transfer chat as a place for formation nerds like me to discuss tactics.

@wanderer1984 I agree 343 is a really weird formation. Off the top of my head I can only think of 2 teams playing it successfully in the last 20ish years - Brazil 2002 and Chelsea under Conte.

Brazil 2002 had Cafu and Roberto Carlos as the wing backs.... And a front 3 that was ridiculous, so don't really work as a comparison to any other team.

However Chelsea under Conte is interesting. The 3 at the back helped to not expose David Luiz when he'd invariably wander. And the wing backs were completely different, Alonso was previously a full back, and Moses previously a winger. And Chelsea would play Azpilicueta at RCB to cover Moses.

So @Rival Son I'm not sure we need 2 primarily attacking wing backs to make it work. Schon as more attacking and Cogley more defensive could be fine.

The bit we are missing is in midfield though. Both those teams had pure enforcers in the centre. Chelsea had Matic and Kanye, and Brazil had Gilberto Silva and Kleberson (more a hard worker but not a ball player definitely). This is where we seem way off it with Thomason and Sheehan. I like both but they're not enforcers.

He's right ... we dont have the players to change formation. He's fucked up with the summer transfers. Which makes the signing of Randall even more bizarre.

We can only play a back 5 because we don't have a LB and the CB'S are so used playing as a 3. JDC I think could do a decent job of RB and Toal as a CB in a 2 but that's it.

We've got Thomasson, Matete, Sheehan, Dempsey, Morley & Arfield fighting for 2 positions.

Can't play winger because we don't have any ... nearest we have is Schon and Tutu.

And now we've go Lolos, McAtee, Collins and Randall for those 2 useless number 10 spots.

Limited to playing 523, 532 and that's it. Fucking depressing.

Evatt Out

 

 

Get the forwards in, chuck bags of cement at them, first one to trap one starts up front. Pick one of the array of 8s or 10s to play off him.

Midfield of Morley and Matete, Schon and Tutu playing wide on the correct sides.

Back four of Johnston, Santos, Toal and Jones, make them watch videos of how Rioch's back 4s functioned and copy how they played. 

Drop Baxter as the goal kick nonsense is unforgivable and Southwold moves the ball quicker.

Can change to 4 3 3 if required by taking off the wide midfielders, bringing on another central midfielder and another of the 8's 10's to play in a front three.

Likely bollocks but couldn't be worse than yesterday.

Tried to re-do a formation, but it's pretty much impossible, we don't actually have a left back?

We've got a plethora of players who just aren't performing. 

Midfield is a problem, too many central.

Wingers we have a few, Schon, Williams, Tutu, Gomes, with Collins, Randall and Victor previously playing as wingers. 

Tutu has 20ish goal involvements in 200 games as a pro. Williams had a great year going forward pre-COVID in League Two, but is never a winger either. CMG is still getting up to speed from a serious injury. Not sure what part of Victor's incredibly limited skillset would suit playing wide.

Would any of these get a game playing as a winger for any of the top six?

11 hours ago, superkev said:

Santos did play in a four in league 2

10 hours ago, superkev said:

He’s not been in the team of the season 3 times though

This year won't be a fourth and for me, only this season counts now.

29 minutes ago, only1swanny said:

Tried to re-do a formation, but it's pretty much impossible, we don't actually have a left back?

We've got a plethora of players who just aren't performing. 

Midfield is a problem, too many central.

Wingers we have a few, Schon, Williams, Tutu, Gomes, with Collins, Randall and Victor previously playing as wingers. 

Recalling Conway is our only option there, which shows how desperate it is.

Aside from that I think we can do a round pegs in round holes 442 (can't play 433/451 because we don't have any physical strikers to hold the ball up) with:

-Conway, Toal, Santos, Jones at the back. I don't buy that Santos can't play in a back 4. Tell him to focus on defending and not trying to be prime Baresi and he'll be fine in a back 4. Full backs look very weak, but at least those 2 are full backs.

-Morley, Matete, Tomo and Sharples in a compact midfield 4. Sheehan to come in once fit. Lacks a real midfield powerhouse but having 4 there is infinitely better than what we have at the minute. CMG or Lolos could come on if we need a bit more creativity and need to go to a wider midfield.

-Charles with one of our low sock crew to support him up top.

I'm not saying this is perfect but it would have more control in midfield and be playing players in their right positions, and get rid of the reliance on wingbacks because ours aren't good enough.

1 minute ago, Stig said:

Recalling Conway is our only option there, which shows how desperate it is.

Aside from that I think we can do a round pegs in round holes 442 (can't play 433/451 because we don't have any physical strikers to hold the ball up) with:

-Conway, Toal, Santos, Jones at the back. I don't buy that Santos can't play in a back 4. Tell him to focus on defending and not trying to be prime Baresi and he'll be fine in a back 4. Full backs look very weak, but at least those 2 are full backs.

-Morley, Matete, Tomo and Sharples in a compact midfield 4. Sheehan to come in once fit. Lacks a real midfield powerhouse but having 4 there is infinitely better than what we have at the minute. CMG or Lolos could come on if we need a bit more creativity and need to go to a wider midfield.

-Charles with one of our low sock crew to support him up top.

I'm not saying this is perfect but it would have more control in midfield and be playing players in their right positions, and get rid of the reliance on wingbacks because ours aren't good enough.

Conway & Sharples? 

Pitch two inexperienced players in this mess?

Just now, Traf said:

Conway & Sharples? 

Pitch two inexperienced players in this mess?

Round pegs and round holes is what I was trying to do.

Ideally the manager shouldn't have spent the last few transfer windows overloading on the same type of players so we have more full back and midfield options.

But tbh would those 2 do much worse than whoever they replace from yesterday? Might show a bit more passion and win a 50/50

29 minutes ago, Stig said:

Round pegs and round holes is what I was trying to do.

Ideally the manager shouldn't have spent the last few transfer windows overloading on the same type of players so we have more full back and midfield options.

But tbh would those 2 do much worse than whoever they replace from yesterday? Might show a bit more passion and win a 50/50

I get all that, I really do and I'd love them both to be able to step up and slot in, but they're as equally likely to be ruined.

His and Markham transfer policy is why we are in this mess ignoring what we need and bringing in lightweight fancy dans!

Am I missing something, all this talk of if we can possibly go to 4 at the back, the answer is no until we get a new manager, even then there's no guarantee, especially when he sees what he's been left with.  

This is going to take more than a few months to sort out, even once he's gone, to say we've gone backwards tactically and squad-wise doesn't even come close.  

If and it’s a big if Evatt gets potted whoever comes in will need to clear out some players who are just not up to it. 

Tutu has looked as good as anyone out wide.

Perhaps that's why he can't get a game.

5 minutes ago, Rizlar said:

If and it’s a big if Evatt gets potted whoever comes in will need to clear out some players who are just not up to it. 

Not sure how that happens when they will be on top money for this level.  Who's going to pay them what we're  paying?  Maybe Birmingham, Wrexham, Huddersfield and Wycombe could compete financially and most of our players aren't going to get into their squads, they are too weak physically.  And those that we've paid a decent fee for, we aren't getting anywhere near that back so we'd have to be prepared to take a loss.

1 hour ago, Traf said:

Conway & Sharples? 

Pitch two inexperienced players in this mess?

There's a very strange belief that Sharplrs is the bees knees.

Nowt against him but I don't see, apart from blind faith & wishful thinking, where that's coming from.

34 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Am I missing something, all this talk of if we can possibly go to 4 at the back, the answer is no until we get a new manager, even then there's no guarantee, especially when he sees what he's been left with.  

This is going to take more than a few months to sort out, even once he's gone, to say we've gone backwards tactically and squad-wise doesn't even come close.  

Oh I know Evatt won't go 4 at the back. I'm just stating a change in formation is possible with the squad we have and may make us more solid.

Says something that there's more tactical flexibility on this forum than Evatt has shown.

37 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Am I missing something, all this talk of if we can possibly go to 4 at the back, the answer is no until we get a new manager, even then there's no guarantee ...

Didn't Evatt say that he's recruited for this style and didn't have the players to act differently ?

I think he's wrong tbh. There are some good players here we just aren't using them properly. We DO lack the bastard midfielder and a capable bigger striker. But that's all really.

2 minutes ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

There's a very strange belief that Sharplrs is the bees knees.

Nowt against him but I don't see, apart from blind faith & wishful thinking, where that's coming from.

I'm not claiming that. My suggestion is solely based on us needing to play midfielders and him being one. 

Fed up of Evatt's FIFA tactics of loading all the forwards on the pitch.

10 minutes ago, Stig said:

Oh I know Evatt won't go 4 at the back. I'm just stating a change in formation is possible with the squad we have and may make us more solid.

Says something that there's more tactical flexibility on this forum than Evatt has shown.

Despite the fact that he's apparently on record stating 4-3-3 is his preferred set up. 🤔

3 minutes ago, Greg_BWFC said:

Despite the fact that he's apparently on record stating 4-3-3 is his preferred set up. 🤔

😂

3 minutes ago, Greg_BWFC said:

Despite the fact that he's apparently on record stating 4-3-3 is his preferred set up. 🤔

If presented with that fact, he’d probably say changing his preferred formation proves he isn’t as rigid or stubborn as people accuse him of. 

3 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

If presented with that fact, he’d probably say changing his preferred formation proves he isn’t as rigid or stubborn as people accuse him of. 

Yeah but I can't remember the last time we played 4 at the back in this league.

Apart from when Rico etc get sent off.

(I'm sure we must have at some point)

If I’m to join the ranks of football manager, then I’m on my computer simulator and I’m playing and re-playing that game until I get a win with a clean sheet.

Back to BSA theory of sort your defence out first, get a clean sheet.

Although I hear the calls of youngsters being thrown to the lions, I’d recall Conway from Crewe, a left sided defender who is playing well and has had loads of game time and a successful loan spell.

And I’d get some square pegs in square holes.

Based on who we could pick at the moment, I’d go 4-5-1, with this:

                     Southwood

Jones.       Santos     Toal.      Conway

Tutu.         Matete.  Morley      Schon

                         Randall

                         Charles

Edited January 12, 20251 yr by desperado

1 hour ago, desperado said:

If I’m to join the ranks of football manager, then I’m on my computer simulator and I’m playing and re-playing that game until I get a win with a clean sheet.

Back to BSA theory of sort your defence out first, get a clean sheet.

Although I hear the calls of youngsters being thrown to the lions, I’d recall Conway from Crewe, a left sided defender who is playing well and has had loads of game time and a successful loan spell.

And I’d get some square pegs in square holes.

Based on who we could pick at the moment, I’d go 4-5-1, with this:

                     Southwood

Jones.       Santos     Toal.      Conway

Tutu.         Matete.  Morley      Schon

                         Randall

                         Charles

Similar but Collins ahead of Charles 

28 minutes ago, only1swanny said:

Similar but Collins ahead of Charles 

Not after that yesterday.

If we are playing one up top, out of the 4 forwards we have, I want someone who will harry and chase defenders down, work really hard for the team.

Getting a goal would be a bonus in my team. 

I’d take 3 0-0’s as a starting point to turn things around.