Charlton Athletic (A)

[Ryan]

1 minute ago, Rizlar said:

Yeah he’s that good nobody has tried to sign him off us ! I honestly think he’s the problem with his slow build up play obviously under orders from IE? 

I’d be surprised if no clubs have asked about his availability. He is still held in high regard by fans of some other clubs. Charlton for instance, I saw a few of their fans on X before the game about how much they hate playing against him and how dominant he looks when we play them.

[Rizlar]

I honestly think if he was just allowed to defend and not to try and dictate play he would be outstanding ! 

[ianofcleveleys]

The injury issues and absence of the Spring seem to caused him to lose a yard of pace that was exposed a couple of times against Wrexham. He did well enough in standing duels with the big lump they had up front and in heading balls away from our box but looked less convincing when asked to cover ground to deal with situations.

No doubt for me he's a hindrance to us when restarting play from the back, slows the tempo way too much, to the frustration often of those in front of him and, even if 'under instructions' there's been times when even Evatt has been waving his arms about on the side. He seems to just take what he's being asked to do too literally

I think we have had the best of him and wouldn't be crying into my beer if we were offered money for him and he went. He won't suddenly make another club at our level start keeping clean sheets every week 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

18 minutes ago, Rizlar said:

I honestly think if he was just allowed to defend and not to try and dictate play he would be outstanding ! 

Yep.

He's getting loads of stick for doing what it seems IE expects of him. 

Don't think either of those either side would be any better- they're third division defenders being expected to be attack instigators, quality passers etc.

Santos does have a mistake in him, but who doesn't; it seems he's the one given the responsibility and the one who gets the brickbats. 

It's a team effort ultimately, and everyone has some responsibility- whether that is moving and showing for the ball, working to win the ball back, taking responsibility etc.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

9 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

One who was subbed off he wrote.

So from Sheehan, Dacers-C, Charles or Thomason. Only one realistic option from them.

Poor do players spouting in a venue with other people around mind.

I reckon it could be any of them.

Let's be honest, this is the view of other players who see things we don't. They could be wrong too!

It isn't something that should be being discussed openly, and suggests that not all is rosy.

This has to be sorted, and quickly. 

[Casino]

Ive read a few times over the years (with a number of managers) things overheard in the gym

Take it with a pinch of salt

They should have more fucking sense, mind

[Rizlar]

3 minutes ago, Casino said:

Ive read a few times over the years (with a number of managers) things overheard in the gym

Take it with a pinch of salt

They should have more fucking sense, mind

So true !

[Blondi]

2 hours ago, Rizlar said:

I honestly think if he was just allowed to defend and not to try and dictate play he would be outstanding ! 

Evatt must think he's the equivalent of a Franz Beckenbauer, but we're a 3rd division side unfortunately, so it might happen in Evatt's dreams.

[Rival Son]

2 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

He's getting loads of stick for doing what it seems IE expects of him

He’s getting loads of stick for NOT doing what Evatt expects of him. Evatt’s not telling Santos to give the ball away, misplace passes, fail to connect properly with decent opportunities at attacking set pieces, etc.

Whatever the issues with tactics, Santos needs to significantly improve his game.

Edited August 26, 2024 by Rival Son

[London Wanderer]

I couldn’t give a shit about the odd mistake.

Even the best do it.

 It’s our weak attitude when we go down a goal. 

[batton carrier]

I feel that there is something fundamentally wrong with the mindset of the whole team.

It looks like we have a well rehearsed game plan but as soon as something happens that deviates from it (usually the opposition not following the script) we are lost.

It looks like an unhappy workplace out on the pitch. We can only guess what the dressing room and training ground are like but my guess is that the environment is far from cosy.

I would have thought Evatt with all his modern methods would be all over Sports Psychology  but it doesn't look like it.

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

10 hours ago, Rival Son said:

He’s getting loads of stick for NOT doing what Evatt expects of him. Evatt’s not telling Santos to give the ball away, misplace passes, fail to connect properly with decent opportunities at attacking set pieces, etc.

Whatever the issues with tactics, Santos needs to significantly improve his game.

Then someone else should be given the task, and we'll see how they go on.

He's got two midfielders to hit, or a long ball to a striker.

Folk complain when he passes it between the other defenders.

Then complain when he doesn't find a man elsewhere who well marked.

That is very much down to Evatt and his tactics. If players can't do what he wants, then he either replaces them, or changes tactics.

Can't do the former, and won't do the latter.

[desperado]

1 hour ago, batton carrier said:

I feel that there is something fundamentally wrong with the mindset of the whole team.

It looks like we have a well rehearsed game plan but as soon as something happens that deviates from it (usually the opposition not following the script) we are lost.

It looks like an unhappy workplace out on the pitch. We can only guess what the dressing room and training ground are like but my guess is that the environment is far from cosy.

I would have thought Evatt with all his modern methods would be all over Sports Psychology  but it doesn't look like it.

 

I’ve given credence to a lot of the negative reaction since Saturday, despite my usual positive outlook.

But I think there’s a danger of far too many doom-mongering theories, too early on in the season, despite there being obvious concerns at the moment.

You state or allude to;

- Things being fundamentally wrong

- Issues with mindset

- Being lost on the pitch

- Unhappy workplace 

- Dressing room and training Ground issues

- Psychological issues

Time will tell whether you are right or not, and for all our sakes let’s hope you’re not.

But for a side that finished 3rd last year, a squad that’s largely stuck together, some exciting new signings, some positive stories and soundbites from players and management these last few weeks, a relatively decent start after the first 3 games…..

…..those assumptions above sound more like a club that is on its absolute arse with a raft of internal issues and unhappy players, I’d be very surprised (and unhappy) if that was the case.

Yes, Saturday was poor, 5 in 15 and 12 In 33 wins sets a poor timeline of results, there’s very little credit since Oxford, we need to address this quickly, Evatt hasnt got time on his hands and needs solutions quickly. That and more is true.

But let’s not turn this into more than that. 

We’ve got a set of winnable games ahead of us. A few wins will breed some belief in the squad. Goals, clean sheets and wins would give us a completely different perspective. 
 

 

[Whitesince63]

I’m not admonishing Rico of blame for the goals on Saturday but I thought the first was a pass, albeit not a good one, into space for Toal to run onto but he never made any attempt and the second, if Victor had turned to go forward as he should have and not back, he wouldn’t have lost the ball. It’s obvious that Rico’s lacking confidence at the moment and as important as he is defensively it might be wise for Evatt to give him a break for a few games and let Forino see what he can do there?

[wakey]

1 hour ago, Whitesince63 said:

I’m not admonishing Rico of blame for the goals on Saturday but I thought the first was a pass, albeit not a good one, into space for Toal to run onto but he never made any attempt and the second, if Victor had turned to go forward as he should have and not back, he wouldn’t have lost the ball. It’s obvious that Rico’s lacking confidence at the moment and as important as he is defensively it might be wise for Evatt to give him a break for a few games and let Forino see what he can do there?

I didn't realise how daft the pass was for the second goal until I watched the Charlton lads vlog.

Vic was trotting forward to get back into position, not showing for or expecting the pass. Had he played it in front of him maybe you could understand the thinking, but it was to feet / behind him. 

I'm not a mind reader, but I suspect Vic's exact thought at that moment was "what the fuck".

Think you're bang on with the confidence thing. We all know he's a good player, but he's looked increasingly dodgy of late.

Edited August 27, 2024 by wakey

[ianofcleveleys]

1 hour ago, Whitesince63 said:

I’m not admonishing Rico of blame for the goals on Saturday but I thought the first was a pass, albeit not a good one, into space for Toal to run onto but he never made any attempt and the second, if Victor had turned to go forward as he should have and not back, he wouldn’t have lost the ball. It’s obvious that Rico’s lacking confidence at the moment and as important as he is defensively it might be wise for Evatt to give him a break for a few games and let Forino see what he can do there?

To be fair to him, having watched those (admittedly brief) highlights, a lad of theirs is trying and possibly succeeding in cutting the angle off to Toal so his only option is to play it forward, though ideally not into no man's land. There is an element of fault with Baxter though, and with the pressure to fulfil orders. He is best places to decide whether a throw out or pass out is risky and that one to Santos was for me. In his haste to follow instructions and not have Evatt waving his arms about Baxter's given one or two really risky balls out over recent months. 

One of these days, one of our keepers or CBs will just twat it long and tell Evatt to fuck off with his hands on head drama

[boltonboris]

Pathetic performance. The worst one of the season so far and we've been shit for 4 games.

At no point previously have I wanted the manager gone, but I'm not willing to put up with another 4 games like this. The new system he has concocted does nothing but expose our frailties. Lack of imagination, lack of physicality in midfield and honestly, a severe lack of technique.

In a 3, Sheehan can get away with not being an energetic presser, or tackler.
In a 3, Thomason can get away with being generally shit at football, because he's busy and energetic.

In a 2, it's like watching the Chuckle Brothers fit a kitchen. feck me. My eyes are still bleeding

Edited August 27, 2024 by boltonboris

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Thomason is shit at football- aye alreet. 

You claim to be normal. 

[auckland_bwfc]

Do a job in a Diamond yon men

[boltonboris]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Thomason is shit at football- aye alreet. 

You claim to be normal. 

There's obviously some over-exaggeration as I'm pissed off with the start of this season, but I find him a little cumbersome, poor first touch, but he's effective in a 3. This 2 system will expose him and others for their limitations - I've not written him or anything and he's still a shoe-in, but he's limited and I don't think that's controversial.

He can't return throw-ins to the thrower!

[dazl1212]

Playing 2 centre midfielders these days is asking for trouble, when most play with 3. I think the only way I could see it working is with 2 box to box midfielders. Maybe 4321 would work? With McAtee and Collins behind Charles?

[nantwichwhite]

 was thinking before the game that at Charlton with that lovely wide pitch that suites our natural game and we always play well there. I didn't post as I also thought that we are trying a different system and we can't have it all ways. The personnel in midfield is too light in numbers or does not either have the right balance or type of player, this is not a criticism of any player's skill sets. It is just obvious.

I fell sorry for Santos, still captain, issues with form and fitness, teams know now to press high and just wait for the error. Santos seems to be pivotal in the way we play and dropping him is a massive call and could have a more detrimental effect. But good managers/teams find a way to change and win games. It isn't any easy one that is for sure but a starting point could be a new captain, there are some good options!

[Mantra]

Didn’t watch the game as I was busy. So forgive me if I’m waffling absolute shite below.

Watched the 2 minute highlights which admittedly never tell the whole story but judging from them - we created 0 big chances and conceded two goals from poor build up. If I had seen in the highlights that Charles had missed a sitter and Toal had hit the post from a headed effort I would be more reassured. But it looks like we got a loss and a poor performance on top.

I originally bought into Evatt’s speech about how playing this style of football will give us a better chance when we go higher up the pyramid, as it won’t be such a culture shock in the championship having to play better football.

At the moment though it feels like there is no point learning this system for higher up the pyramid if we can’t ever get higher up.

Priority number 1 has to be promotion, not learning a philosophy. Evatt has to throw his principles out the window and focus on the best way of achieving that, which I’m sorry to say probably goes against his possession-based philosophy. 

Our players sadly don’t have the quality to consistently build up in this style without fucking up. Nor are they able to consistently find solutions in the attacking third against stubborn teams..

I’m not saying we need to go full on “gerrit forward” but we do need more pragmatism and balance to our tactical plans. We are predictable and ineffective far too often. I have said it before but since getting into League 1 we have still not seen a run of wins like we did in League 2 from February onwards.

We are inconsistent in this style of play. we have tried 3 variants of 3-5-2

1. Kieran Lee/Dapo/Shoretire as an attacking mid in a 3-4-1-2

2. Sheehan/Morley as a deep playmaker in a 3-1-4-2

3. And now a 3-4-2-1 with two attacking midfielders and two central midfielders.

Yes it’s early days this season, yes we may have gone up if Baxter and Charles hadn’t got injured, yes we are still on a “good path”. Maybe my head has gone but it needs to improve. I’m sick of the inconsistency and I know we can be so much better if we didn’t overcomplicate certain games. 

We could win 7-0 in our next league game and I still wouldn’t have faith for the match after it. The style of play, and the length of time Evatt has now had in the job should guarantee us more consistency but all I have seen in this division over 3 years is inconsistency. It doesn’t seem to matter how we tweak our plan or our personnel, the same problems keep cropping up time and time again. The players look so restricted at times, especially when we’re losing. Would love to see us just take the shackles off and really go at teams relentlessly. We have enough quality now that we shouldn’t need to rely on possession to win.

 

[Whitesince63]

22 minutes ago, nantwichwhite said:

 was thinking before the game that at Charlton with that lovely wide pitch that suites our natural game and we always play well there. I didn't post as I also thought that we are trying a different system and we can't have it all ways. The personnel in midfield is too light in numbers or does not either have the right balance or type of player, this is not a criticism of any player's skill sets. It is just obvious.

I fell sorry for Santos, still captain, issues with form and fitness, teams know now to press high and just wait for the error. Santos seems to be pivotal in the way we play and dropping him is a massive call and could have a more detrimental effect. But good managers/teams find a way to change and win games. It isn't any easy one that is for sure but a starting point could be a new captain, there are some good options!

To be fair white we’ve actually done ok when Ricos been out injured previously so I don’t think resting him for a bit would be much of a problem.