Reading (H)

[desperado]

1 hour ago, Big E said:

Captaincy duties gone should help improve his game

I’m struggling to think of an example in football where this is the case, can you?

I can give you a few in Cricket where the on-field captain has to be; intelligent, a strategist, innovative, creative and understand the psychology of his players.

There is a genuine burden and expectancy with those duties.

In football the on-field captain is symbolistic, just someone who leads by example and is a role-model. It’s hardly a burden which would take the weight off someones shoulders if relieved of them.

I think you saw that yesterday. He still made a few mistakes. You weren’t looking at him thinking, can’t you tell he’s playing better, with more freedom now he’s had that horrific burden taken off him.

Edited September 22 by desperado

[onefinfrandsen]

7 minutes ago, desperado said:

I’m struggling to think of an example in football where this is the case, can you?

I can give you a few in Cricket where the on-field captain has to be; intelligent, a strategist, innovative, creative and understand the psychology of his players.

There is a genuine burden and expectancy with those duties.

In football the on-field captain is symbolistic, just someone who leads by example and is a role-model. It’s hardly a burden which would take the weight of someone’s shoulders if relieved of them.

I think you saw that yesterday. He still made a few mistakes. You weren’t looking at him thinking, can’t you tell he’s playing better, with more freedom now he’s had that horrific burden taken off him.

Think maybe he just needs a rest, he didn’t celebrate any of the goals. If his body language is anything to go buy he needs a spell out of the team 

[Big E]

23 minutes ago, desperado said:

I’m struggling to think of an example in football where this is the case, can you?

I can give you a few in Cricket where the on-field captain has to be; intelligent, a strategist, innovative, creative and understand the psychology of his players.

There is a genuine burden and expectancy with those duties.

In football the on-field captain is symbolistic, just someone who leads by example and is a role-model. It’s hardly a burden which would take the weight of someone’s shoulders if relieved of them.

I think you saw that yesterday. He still made a few mistakes. You weren’t looking at him thinking, can’t you tell he’s playing better, with more freedom now he’s had that horrific burden taken off him.

I don’t think it will be instant but I think by the end of October he will be much improved (well I hope) 

[gonzo]

Just now, Big E said:

I don’t think it will be instant but I think by the end of October he will be much improved (well I hope) 

I don't think he will be in the team much longer.

Most outspoken bloke in the dressing room stripped of captaincy just doesn't bode well for me.

He was well off it yesterday too.

[desperado]

1 minute ago, Big E said:

I don’t think it will be instant but I think by the end of October he will be much improved (well I hope) 

I hope you’re right pal.

But like I asked above can you think of examples where this has happened? It would be nice to know there’s an example that we could look at and say let’s hope it goes that way, because I genuinely can’t think of one. 

[onefinfrandsen]

4 minutes ago, Big E said:

I don’t think it will be instant but I think by the end of October he will be much improved (well I hope) 

If he’s anything like the fan base he’s been traumatised by the Oxford game, takes some people longer to get over than others

 

5 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I don't think he will be in the team much longer.

Most outspoken bloke in the dressing room stripped of captaincy just doesn't bode well for me.

He was well off it yesterday too.

This outspoken character that’s been talked about, he doesn’t come across that way in interview. He looks quite shy.

[Burndens Bogs]

Samtos was unpassable a couple of years back, he was a rock at the back.

I don’t recall a Bolton player who has gone from shit, to fantastic, then back to shit again in such a short space of time.

[Big E]

13 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I don't think he will be in the team much longer.

Most outspoken bloke in the dressing room stripped of captaincy just doesn't bode well for me.

He was well off it yesterday too.

He’s been off it for ages. Very weak

[Big E]

12 minutes ago, desperado said:

I hope you’re right pal.

But like I asked above can you think of examples where this has happened? It would be nice to know there’s an example that we could look at and say let’s hope it goes that way, because I genuinely can’t think of one. 

I am not sure of an example I just think he will be better when he can concentrate on himself. He’s clearly been a bit meh for a while. Resting is probably needed. Is he still having it away with random birds on his PlayStation live gaming 

[gonzo]

9 minutes ago, onefinfrandsen said:

 

 

This outspoken character that’s been talked about, he doesn’t come across that way in interview. He looks quite shy.

So did Stephen Gerrard or Wayne Rooney but they were the biggest voices in the dressing room.

Camera skills mean nothing.

[frank_spencer]

Santos at his best is a beast, at his worst is a league 1 Titus Bramble.

He swings wildly between the 2 during a game and has been closer to the latter more often in recent games. 

Can't envisage him ever being dropped for a prolonged period of time. 

From set pieces especially if the opposition manage to bypass Santos heading the initial ball clear we're fucked.

[Big E]

6 minutes ago, Burndens Bogs said:

Samtos was unpassable a couple of years back, he was a rock at the back.

I don’t recall a Bolton player who has gone from shit, to fantastic, then back to shit again in such a short space of time.

Has he gone to shit or is the reality he isn’t that good and we’ve evolved to a point where he’s not what we need to progress. He’s defo not championship level like a lot of folk believe 

[frank_spencer]

1 minute ago, Big E said:

Has he gone to shit or is the reality he isn’t that good and we’ve evolved to a point where he’s not what we need to progress. He’s defo not championship level like a lot of folk believe 

It's not ability holding Rico back it's consistency, if he played as well as we know he can every game he'd be championship at least but the fact he's capable of the worst fuck ups imaginable is why he's not 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

How old is he now?

Been here for 4 years- are his legs not as good as previously. 

[Stig]

Santos is still imo our best defender, but his absolute best spell came with Baptiste organising him and the back line generally. He's not a leader that much is clear but in the middle of the back 3 he's expected to organise the defence. Why not try Forino or Toal in the middle and see if Santos can be better on the right of the 3?

[onefinfrandsen]

5 minutes ago, Big E said:

Has he gone to shit or is the reality he isn’t that good and we’ve evolved to a point where he’s not what we need to progress. He’s defo not championship level like a lot of folk believe 

Santos is santos, from day one when he signed the doubts were there, he’s been immense on the whole in league two and now one, he is prone to the odd f—k up but now we have changed system ( hopefully) he still has a big part to play .

[Big E]

21 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

It's not ability holding Rico back it's consistency, if he played as well as we know he can every game he'd be championship at least but the fact he's capable of the worst fuck ups imaginable is why he's not 

He really wouldn’t. He does lack consistency but he also lacks ability and we as fans lack to ability to see him for what he is. A good league 1 lad. Nothing more . 

[desperado]

If I’m going to be balanced and open-minded to this working, then those words are as good as any I’ve heard regarding the captaincy change.

[onefinfrandsen]

1 minute ago, Big E said:

He really wouldn’t. He does lack consistency but he also lacks ability and we as fans lack to ability to see him for what he is. A good league 1 lad. Nothing more . 

Think it was evatt who said he’s not the most naturally fit , and you can see  that in games he does seem to struggle. But he can still do a job for us in this league if he gets his head right

[Big E]

2 minutes ago, onefinfrandsen said:

Think it was evatt who said he’s not the most naturally fit , and you can see  that in games he does seem to struggle. But he can still do a job for us in this league if he gets his head right

There is a job he can do but he shouldn’t be the center piece. I’m not the most naturally fit but reckon I could be fit if I did fuck all but train all week 

[Ani]

Santos is fine, not been his very best but people on here on social media blaming him for everything that we get wrong or might get wrong is pretty pathetic. 

Critical to how we play as best centre half at playing balls out from the back to the wide players. 
 

Of course he is not perfect , we are in League 1 but one of the best in the League at his best. Think he has made the team of the season every year since he arrived. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

10 minutes ago, onefinfrandsen said:

Think it was evatt who said he’s not the most naturally fit , and you can see  that in games he does seem to struggle. But he can still do a job for us in this league if he gets his head right

Whatever his fitness levels are, experience of more games played, and character should help him overcome any deficiencies in that department.

Looking at the highlights: on our first, he does a bit of a Nolan and points/shouts rather than chase up front.

Once or twice maybe lets a player go, but again experience and vision will help.

Just think where he was not so long ago, when he "was never going to be a footballer". 😁

[paulhanley]

I reckon if Big Sam was boss there's a fair chance he'd try Santos in holding midfield - like he did with Campo, Faye and Hierro.

[Johnnyrotten]

40 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

Santos at his best is a beast, at his worst is a league 1 Titus Bramble.

He swings wildly between the 2 during a game and has been closer to the latter more often in recent games. 

Can't envisage him ever being dropped for a prolonged period of time. 

From set pieces especially if the opposition manage to bypass Santos heading the initial ball clear we're fucked.

I do think that part of his game is underrated/unnoticed to an extent.  I'd like to see a stat of what percentage of crosses are headed clear by Santos, not to mention all the interceptions etc.  Even on a "poor" day like yesterday, he was still 2nd best defender after Johnston. 

Toal goes under the radar in comparison but he's hardly covering himself in glory, what's happened to his passing?  I just think everything Santos does, good or bad, is magnified and some other players are hardly noticed.  Matete had a nightmare yesterday and frankly looked disinterested (as Charles did last week) but I've not seen one mention of it.  Which is fine because they don't all play well every week, we're in L1, but illustrates my point.  Win lose or draw at Crawley, Santos's performance will get more mentions than most.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

8 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

I reckon if Big Sam was boss there's a fair chance he'd try Santos in holding midfield - like he did with Campo, Faye and Hierro.

Interesting.

I reckon he'd have him far more effective at set pieces, and the whole team a bit tougher.

I don't see him as having the quality with the ball and awareness to play there.

He's quick once he gets to top speed, but not the most agile, so would need those other qualities. 

I reckon we'd have fewer injuries with Sam-he managed players fitness very well- remember Youri being surprised at the amount of training they didn't do at towards the season's end.