Bwsa

[Smiley]

I meant to go tonight but work got in the way, apologies to Mick, be intereted to know how the night went.

 

I went. Was good. Yep, cannot deny all the preconceptions came true. Greeted by older women selling raffle tickets. But not a rug, flask or biscuit tin in sight!

 

Their were around 50-70 people present. Which, given Gary Cahill (England international and star defender) and Stuart Holden (USA international and up & coming star midfielder) were doing Q&A was pretty poor by all accounts. Hard to understand how any BWFC fan would not have been happy to come along and listen to these two talk. I thought they both came across excellent and though some of those present may have been OAPs there were quite a lot of well thought out questions and some witty banter besides. I think the oldest guy in there was the funniest by a long shot!!

 

As been discussed on the first few pages - the breakaway BWSC had done an about turn and decided against a rival faction in favour of joining the BWSA and strengthening its ranks. So with 4 places available on the committee - there were some fresh faces voted on - all with a bunch of new ideas, etc, etc.

 

The fact is, at present the BWSA does not reflect the fan base at BWFC. And it should do as the recognised supporters club. Its not a case of telling the 75% of members who happen to be in the older age bracket to do one, its more a case now of saying lets see an influx of under 18s, 20-40s, lads and lasses from all walks of life. Then the preconception of it being a closed shop to the over 55s can be rid of once and for all.

 

I would recommend it to everyone to at least try to attend an up and coming event/meeting, etc. A night at the Reebok with a couple of current players doing Q&A with a pint vs sitting at home watching TV = no brainer.

 

Good luck to the new committee members - hope it all works out well.

 

I know its not everyone's cup of tea - but don't knock it til you've tried it.

[HomerJay]

as long as people dont see it as something its not then fair enough.

 

if wanna chinwag with players, go for it.

 

but they are hardly gonna have the final say in the cost of the pies, are they?

[Mounts Kipper]

I went. Was good. Yep, cannot deny all the preconceptions came true. Greeted by older women selling raffle tickets. But not a rug, flask or biscuit tin in sight!

 

Their were around 50-70 people present. Which, given Gary Cahill (England international and star defender) and Stuart Holden (USA international and up & coming star midfielder) were doing Q&A was pretty poor by all accounts. Hard to understand how any BWFC fan would not have been happy to come along and listen to these two talk. I thought they both came across excellent and though some of those present may have been OAPs there were quite a lot of well thought out questions and some witty banter besides. I think the oldest guy in there was the funniest by a long shot!!

 

As been discussed on the first few pages - the breakaway BWSC had done an about turn and decided against a rival faction in favour of joining the BWSA and strengthening its ranks. So with 4 places available on the committee - there were some fresh faces voted on - all with a bunch of new ideas, etc, etc.

 

The fact is, at present the BWSA does not reflect the fan base at BWFC. And it should do as the recognised supporters club. Its not a case of telling the 75% of members who happen to be in the older age bracket to do one, its more a case now of saying lets see an influx of under 18s, 20-40s, lads and lasses from all walks of life. Then the preconception of it being a closed shop to the over 55s can be rid of once and for all.

 

I would recommend it to everyone to at least try to attend an up and coming event/meeting, etc. A night at the Reebok with a couple of current players doing Q&A with a pint vs sitting at home watching TV = no brainer.

 

Good luck to the new committee members - hope it all works out well.

 

I know its not everyone's cup of tea - but don't knock it til you've tried it.

 

Thanks for the info smiley, I think under Megson the BWSA suffered due to lack of players turning up at events, looks like Coyle has turned that round, the turnout of 70 is pretty poor, better communication with supporters would surely boost turnout at meetings, surely this event should have been advertised in the fanzone and in the programme, also I feel free membership of BWSA should be included in your season ticket the club should sponsor all running costs of the supporters club, video the meetings showing highlights on the official site free of charge, also feel that holding the meetings at the Reebok should be reviewed and meetings should be held at various clubs/pubs around the borough.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Mounts Kipper

[kent_white]

I'm a member of BWSA having signed up in a fit of optimism having heard Coyle at the supporters forum at the beginning of the season. I found yesterdays meeting when I read about it on here but by that point, was already busy. Had I heard about it earler, I would have attended. Perhaps lesson no 1 should be, if your going to have a supporters club, let your members know when you are planning on holding events etc!

[Smiley]

The lack of attendance and the fact that nobody knew about it was raised a number of times. It was suggested a new website, flyers or banners in fanzone, etc, etc are necessary. Plus better communication from the BWSA with the various BWFC forums. It also came to light that the club are prepared to give the BWSA space in the programme for such things like covering past and forthcoming events.

 

The ball definitely seems to be rolling. It just needs a huge influx of new members with innovative ideas.

 

I've suggested that they don't solely focus on Q&A with current players - I'd walk over broken glass to see the likes of Andy Walker talk about his time at the club and football in general.

 

By the way, you could tell from Cahill and Holden that there is a massive buzz about the club at the minute. Cahill was so mature and spoke with a lot of sense and passion - he doesn't come across as a player in desperate need to move elsewhere. He mentioned on numerous occasions the great team spirit they have in the dressing room and training ground - which was there even when Megson was in charge. Whilst Holden was buzzing just to be part of a Premiership outfit and playing well in a team that have become very difficult to beat.

 

There were loads of great snippets of info from the two of them - little conversations that Cahill had with Super Kev in the England dressing room that you will never hear or read about. The banter that Ivan Klasnic brings to the dressing room....... think it was Holden that said they sing the "Ivan Klasnic, Ivan Klasnic" song to him all the time! haha.

 

Which brings me on to the point that both players said they feel, when things are going well, that a big enthusiastic crowd is like a 12th man to them. They weren't just throwing this into the mix as an overplayed cliche, but sincerely said they feel so proud and want to do their best when they hear the crowd roaring and singing. Interesting.

[little whitt]

It's quite obvious that the corners of both upper and lower tiers are the least popular. How about making them a lot cheaper then? OK, you might get folk going for the cheap option and trying to sit in a seat towards the middle but, to be honest, so what? He runs the risk of being in a seat and being asked to move back to his own seat.

PRITTY SHURE WIGAN DO THAT

[kent_white]

Sound like good lads! Nice to hear from somebody who actually made it to the meeting.

[Sluffy]

Here's another view from someone else who went to the meeting.

 

Just for background information of the four new forum members elected that night, one of them seems to be the poster who calls himself 'Breeze' or 'Breezeblock' on the various BWFC forums - he was the one who got banned from a number of forums for sending pm's trying to tap up people to join his forum - he was also banned from Burnden Aces for posting filth (nice to note then that he's a sort of priest or something!).

 

Another of the four is a poster who goes by the name of Josh8, who set up a rival BWFC forum about a year ago (with Breeze) - which as been described by one of its own members as follows -

 

"Perhaps you'd prefer to watch the tumbleweed that's usually blowing through this site. In fact is there any real point to this site other than providing you and your mates with a means of keeping in touch? Having to sift through thread after thread of witless drivel just to find something worth reading is 'boring the tits off me'".

 

A third IS Pealad formerly of this site that posted on here a while back of his intent to shake things up on the BWSA - clearly reading the view of someone clearly involved in the Association - he failed badly!

 

Anyway this was what was said (taken from the Bolton News Forum) -

 

Gang of four rescue BWSA. On another thread Madison white gives a good account of the meeting, especially the comments of Gary Cahill and Stuart Holden. Both showed a great sense of humour and love of their job. His comment that some people are opposed to change is a little off target.

We were all thrilled that the gang of four were going to come in and rescue BWSA. Their experience as salesmen (sorry, Marketing Executives and PR personnel) was just what the doctor ordered. Given a great build up by the present BWSA chairman their arrival was eagerly awaited. Imagine our horror when what appeared to be three eastern European brickies and their can lad approached the mike. They were billed as having business experience ? not obviously in the fashion industry. They were billed as a younger alternative. Three were what could generously be described as middle aged, the fourth was younger. He was obviously there to show how young this group was. However, he had the sense to appeal to the older generation?s sympathy by sporting the sort of basin cut that was worn by impoverished children of my father?s generation.

Nevertheless these four had the wherewithal to rescue the BWSA. The impact of Owen Coyle would be nothing in comparison with what they would do for the Association. They not only had business expertise but one was a great personal friend of Owen himself (based on being the landlord of a pub where the Wanderers of Owen?s day would drink after hours). As an advertiser at the Reebok he was also a bosom buddy of Phil Gartside. He ran two businesses and so would only stay on the Committee long enough to make sure that it was working effectively!! Another was too shy to give his credentials but was a super supporter, great businessman and forward thinking, youth orientated genius. He was the one who pointed out that given the age profile of those in the room, all but eight of us would be dead in the next ten years!! The can lad was (if you can remember him) ?Pealad? of this parish (forum) he had the decency to keep his trap shut given that he had been a member of the BWSA committee, elected on the strength of all the great ideas he had, but who had disappeared when he realised that he would have to spend time and effort and not just tell others what to do.

The fourth was our very own Breezeblock ? and credit to him, he was willing to give his name and forum alias. Sadly, he tried to gain our sympathy by immediately telling us that he reads (or preaches, god help us) at Church. He did not say which Church, but it must be one that is bucking the trend of falling congregations! Given that we are in our dotage we obviously still attend church and would automatically trust a reader at church. Not that I am knocking his belief and integrity ? we all want the best education for our children and going to Church is cheaper than paying private school fees. Still, he got my vote, anyone who wears a leather jacket is cool.

These four were the vanguard of hundred (nay thousands) who wanted a better BWSA. They had not brought their many supporters with them, they said, because they did not want to alarm us. Still two or three delightfully planted audience members had been brought along. The first said, in the tones of those awful radio adverts by owners of companies: ?I do not know anything about you but would like to hear what you have to say? (like Rooney saying he was not injured). The second was a skinny teenager who was so carried away that he claimed to be thirty-four, that he was blown away by their sheer genius and attractiveness and could he have a baby with one of them. The third was brilliant.

The third one gained our respect immediately by pointing out (admitting) that he was a Maths Teacher. He actually said that using his expertise as a maths teacher he could see that about seventy-five percent of the people in the room were over fifty. Do not doubt that he was a maths teacher, because immediately everyone in the room started talking, half of the seventy-five (approximately, I do not have the expertise with numbers and proportions of the maths teacher?s awesome intellect) began to shout that this was rubbish, they were over sixty not over fifty. The other half (fifty percent of the seventy five percent ? he will understand, you and I won?t) began to shout that this was rubbish they were not yet fifty. (Our Chairman, Gareth, led this protest). As a typical teacher, he ignored the ones talking and began to pick on those in the remaining twenty-five percent _ ? I can see a youngster over there ... and you, another one, over there..? Our atavistic fear of maths teachers was enough to unite the whole room ? not quite in the way his sponsors had hoped.

Eventually, a vote was called for and resulted in all four being elected to the committee. (Constitutionally, I am not sure that the can lad needed to be voted for, he was already on the committee but just not active ? as he was not very active at the meeting.)

The annoying thing is that had they come in, offered to serve on the committee and kept quiet then they would have been elected with no fuss and no recrimination. Members of BWSA are not opposed to change nor to new faces. Given that many like me are not prepared, (or in other cases too busy), to do the work ourselves, we are grateful for anyone who will give up their time in a way that benefits Bolton Wanderers and ourselves. Instead the group created a terrible impression ? our present committee has not covered itself in glory but they are nice people ? the gang of four (some of whom have made personal attacks on past committee members in this and other forums) came across as arrogant, unpleasant and aggressive. They alienated people by their tactics: their deceit (they had brought supporters with them ? probably their total support ? which we would have welcomed as much needed new members had they not claimed to have no connection with them); their ridiculously inflated claims ( accepting them onto the committee would protect Bolton Wanders from the impact of Eddy Davies deciding to withdraw his support from the club ? I kid you not, one of them said this), and unnecessary promises ( accept us and at the push of a button we will have website in operation that will swing thousands of supporters to our side and we will pack this room with members). Finally their mendacious approach to their previous comments.

In the past they have claimed that true supporters want to meet in a pub in Bolton, not the too expensive Reebok in Horwich. A venue now described by one of them as ?this wonderful facility?. They have claimed that true supporters do not want to simply hobnob with a couple players, yesterday they talked of how wonderful the meetings were last month and this month. They still claim to speak of hundreds (nay thousands) of true supporters, not the aged, Werther?s Original sucking BWSA.

We do not claim to speak for all true supporters, we are supporters and we would love for the BWSA to have more members. We welcome the gang of four and their (several) supporters. We hope that they succeed in turning the membership around. If they manage to run an association that can have increased membership, or even can organise an AGM at the correct time, we will be glad that they have got involved. It is just a pity that they cannot go about their business in a pleasant, polite way and cannot hide their fear that they are dealing with folk too old to be impressed with their aggressive and dismissive attitude.

I wish them well and hope that they can run an efficient committee. That they can at least sort out an AGM. That they return to the type of committee that would not have totally ignored Betty?s eightieth birthday and left Gretar Steinsson?s mother sitting alone and without a drink at the last meeting. In other words, nice as they are, the people on our committee do need an influx of new, efficient personnel. My worry is that the gang of four will be long on words and short on action.

PS They will get my unconditional support if they can get De Vere Whites to put Wincarnis (or at least Sanatogen tonic wine) on draught for out meetings/

 

http://forum.theboltonnews.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5999&sid=0e16711fd17a06a6eed3733f3ac814f6

Edited October 20, 2010 by Sluffy

[josh8]

Although inaccurate..... I found it quite amusing....

[Breeze]

The details are all wrong and I think he's mixed up the people involved. Pretty funny though.

[josh8]

The details are all wrong and I think he's mixed up the people involved. Pretty funny though.

 

I think you might be right Rev breezeblock.....!

[Breeze]

Amen to that.

[frank_spencer]

Don't you go bringin your battle to our manor you mmuuugggssssssssssssss!

[Boothy]

Zzzzzzzzzzz. As if there is politicking going on for a supporters association. No wonder people don't bother.

[Guest]

Fears justified

 

Best to leave well alone

Edited October 21, 2010 by boltondiver

[Carlos]

A third IS Pealad formerly of this site that posted on here a while back of his intent to shake things up on the BWSA - clearly reading the view of someone clearly involved in the Association - he failed badly!

 

Pealad failed badly in shaking up BWSA, in the same way I'd fail converting an old people's home into 5* hotel overnight; it'd still be full of old people and stink of piss...

 

He did however manage to obtain funding from the club to secure their future. Have met the lad, he could wipe the floor with the shithouses in the BWSA with the added bonus he'd be doing it for the right reason.

[Mounts Kipper]

Pealad failed badly in shaking up BWSA, in the same way I'd fail converting an old people's home into 5* hotel overnight; it'd still be full of old people and stink of piss...

 

He did however manage to obtain funding from the club to secure their future. Have met the lad, he could wipe the floor with the shithouses in the BWSA with the added bonus he'd be doing it for the right reason.

 

For that reason and to help the club build bridges and vice versa, surely all Bolton fans should support this move and at least wish it well.

[Smiley]

[/b]

 

For that reason and to help the club build bridges and vice versa, surely all Bolton fans should support this move and at least wish it well.

 

But as you can already see - there is an instant divide - people are challenging change. FFS!

 

I went along to see if it would be of interest to me, my friends, associates, etc, etc.

 

I found some of the evening quite enjoyable and would think most other people my age, under, over, similar backgrounds, etc would do to.

 

However, the preconceptions of it being mainly populated by older fans (in the over 55 bracket) who are against change and won't let past "digs" lie - came true. And its this, and these people, that will ultimately (and have done so far too many times) force people away - if they even attend at all. Therefore change is necessary to stop this continually happening. Like I've said, its not a case of kicking out members, but saturating the club with a wider spectrum of supporters - black, white, yellow, green, tall, thin, fat, bald, disabled, young, old, etc, etc. At present the club is not represented by a wide enough spectrum and therefore cannot really be taken seriously as the "voice of the fans".

 

As an established Premiership club we should have a supporters club that is very well backed, attended and has a prominent voice in the running of the club. At present we do not. There are always topics that get discussed on this forum and I imagine other forums besides that Duckworth/Gartside, etc never get wind of - therefore they are unable to do anything about them. The BWSA should be the platform for all of the forums to come together and push for changes (where necessary).

 

That's my opinion.

[kent_white]

That's my opinion.

 

And a good one at that. You can't whinge about the supporters club in one breath, and then have a pop when people try to take a more active role in the other.

[Sluffy]

I have my doubts about the motives of some of the newly appointed committee members.

 

Two of them at least were prominent posters on the now defunct official clubs forum that was shut down following death threats to Gartside and Megson!

 

They went on to form their own forum and crowed that they could say anything they liked about the club and its personnel without any fear of repercussion. I think it fair to say that their site as basically failed to date.

 

They have for some time been vehemently against the BWSA and even now still taking the piss out of it on their site.

 

It is clear that they want to create a BWSA forum and recruit members to it from the existing forums (remember this is exactly how they tried to build their own site by deliberately joining other forums and then by the means of private messaging, contacting existing and active members and trying to induce them away - their plan did not succeed and led to those that did it being banned!).

 

Over on Burnden Aces we've had numerous problems with some of them posting filth and generally disrupting the site, so we were somewhat staggered to receive an invite from them as BWSA committee members inviting our mods and admin to a meeting with them and other BWFC forum mods and owners (who have apparently already signed up to go - we don't know of any site that as so far) to meet Owen Coyle and presumably talk about spreading the word of BWSA across our sites (or maybe even talking about merging into one giant BWFC forum - and scraping our own individual sites?).

 

I'm personally not convinced that a supporters club as much of a place in the world of multi-million pound businesses, that are Premier football clubs - indeed the goings on recently at teams such as Liverpool and United have happened despite those clubs having vastly more bigger and well organised supporters clubs than we would ever hope to achieve.

 

I tend to think that supporters clubs can only influence at best peripheral matters and the club does just enough to keep them sweet as more as a PR exercise than being avidly interested in what they say and think.

 

Anyway people are obviously free to do what they want, and if the four new BWSA committee members want to set up a new forum and attract new membership then they are quite entitled to do so.

 

It is just the way that at least two of these people have acted over the last year or so that makes me wonder whether they have an hidden agenda of what they really want to achieve?

[Ani]

pealad seemed to have his heart in the right place for this type of thing.

[Breeze]

Sluffy, you can have whatever concerns you like about me and Mike...that's entirely up to you. But your re-writing of history to make a point is somewhat childish. Firstly, the old 'official' board was closed down because people were having a dig at Gartside...and anyone who knows me (which is at least three people, possibly four including relatives) will be aware that I've defended 'Uncle Phil' for the last five years and I've got the scars to prove it.

 

The new BWSA website will NOT have a forum. It'll be a basic website that carries details of upcoming events and allows people to register online. It will also have a link to every Bolton forum. There's nothing sinister in it.

 

We have made contact with all the forums to arrange a social get together. The arrangements are in the very early stages but so far 80% have signed up. The plan is to meet up and have a pint. Again, nothing sinister. Will it help the BWSA get across their message? Of course it will...but the talk of merging is simply you in fantastical WUM mode. I've always believed that whatever is said online should never provide a barrier to meeting up and having a beer to talk about Wanderers.

 

As for us criticising the BWSA. Guilty. I've been the biggest critic of the Association for some time and I've always considered it a closed shop. But when presented with the opportunity to get involved and try to make a difference (along with three other like-minded supporters) it really was time to stop gassing and get the job done. There are no big announcements, there's no song and dance...the BWSA has to increase in size to have any credibility and that will be the sole purpose in the short term. The way we were co-opted onto the committee was wrong and it must have looked clumsy, baleful and curious to say the least. That wasn't the intention but any concerns regarding it were rightly raised on Tuesday night.

 

And your comments regarding the usefulness of supporters clubs in the modern footballing era are apposite and possibly valid. I don't agree with that position though but that's probably an argument for another time.

 

And on that note, the next social night is on 23rd November in the Lion of Vienna. Details to follow. Yes, that was a shameless plug. Utterly shameless.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Breeze

[Boothy]

My two pence is that the Club don't really need a functioning supporters association in the function they're attempting now. The reason is, times have moved on. Social media and communication channels have evolved. Online forums are a far better way of gaining opinion from a broad cross-section of fans. It appears that BWSA is just a smaller version of an online forum where people form their cliques accordingly depending on which site you access. The whole thing needs overhauling so that a complete cross-section of fans are represented, which will always be resisted by the old timers who have been involved for years.

 

What the BWSA should be, is a website that channels dialogue between the Club and the fans (Not necessarily a forum) and let each fan website have their discourse and relay back to BWSA. They should also plan a Wanderers Supporters Forum (not online forum, a get together) perhaps twice a year, that maybe has a bit more importance than a function with 2 players.

 

If people from various sites want to mix for a beer, so be it, but you cant expect people to just get on and be happy families, there are people with wide ranging opinions of what a football experience is to them and what they envisage it should be.

 

Edit: It also strikes me that BWSA have really struggled to adapt to being an online presence, perhaps echoing the Club itself in some respects.

Edited October 21, 2010 by boothybwfc

[Breeze]

Fair points Boothy. I will say though that the manager himself is keen to re-engage with the supporters and the BWSA plays just a small part in that, much in the same way forums do but you are spot on that the forums have taken the lead in taking advantage of the new social media and from that point onwards there is always an element of playing catch-up. The fact that WW remains so successful today is evidence of that.

[josh8]

My two pence is that the Club don't really need a functioning supporters association in the function they're attempting now. The reason is, times have moved on. Social media and communication channels have evolved. Online forums are a far better way of gaining opinion from a broad cross-section of fans. It appears that BWSA is just a smaller version of an online forum where people form their cliques accordingly depending on which site you access. The whole thing needs overhauling so that a complete cross-section of fans are represented, which will always be resisted by the old timers who have been involved for years.

 

What the BWSA should be, is a website that channels dialogue between the Club and the fans (Not necessarily a forum) and let each fan website have their discourse and relay back to BWSA. They should also plan a Wanderers Supporters Forum (not online forum, a get together) perhaps twice a year, that maybe has a bit more importance than a function with 2 players.

 

If people from various sites want to mix for a beer, so be it, but you cant expect people to just get on and be happy families, there are people with wide ranging opinions of what a football experience is to them and what they envisage it should be.

 

Edit: It also strikes me that BWSA have really struggled to adapt to being an online presence, perhaps echoing the Club itself in some respects.

 

you'll also be suprised to know that something like 8million adults don't have access to the internet in uk... of which you can safely say one or two could be wanderers fans.....so the BWSA needs to represent them too... (but not them alone... as is the case now...!)