Parliament

[Tonge moor green jacket]

He didn't hijack a plane ffs. He got in his car with a big knife and drove it at a fence.

I could drive in to load of queers and bagheads and stab every fucker with my squeegee as I type this message.

We are dealing with the clinically insane here, I just don't know how the Muslim society of anyone else can stop this type of attack. To me It's random as fuck and a far cry from the organised attack at the bataclan etc.

I know I shouldn't but I laughed reading that, imagining you crusading along with your rubber edged weapon!.

[gonzo]

I know I shouldn't but I laughed reading that, imagining you crusading along with your rubber edged weapon!.

One day it's happening. I've been radicalised by the grumpy window cleaners society

[enzo gambaro]

Are you really that gullible? Check out his movements he's moved around the country from Kent to different areas all with well known radical influences in those communities.

I hope somebody's keeping an eye on Dele Adebola.

 

And David Dunn.

[MalcolmW]

I'm not saying he hasn't been radicalised. He was born a Christian according to reports. And there is a suggestion he was possibly converted and radicalised whilst in prison. The point I'm making is even if it was part of an evil plot, with other radicalised nutjobs, it doesn't in any way suggest to me there was a massive cover up amongst the wider Muslim community. In fact quite the opposite. It looks like nobody who knew him, had much clue what he was up to.

 

 

It would be useful to identify those convicted criminals who then converted while in prison.

[frank_spencer]

It would be useful to identify those convicted criminals who then converted while in prison.

Mike Tyson?

[Mounts Kipper]

I'm not saying he hasn't been radicalised. He was born a Christian according to reports. And there is a suggestion he was possibly converted and radicalised whilst in prison. The point I'm making is even if it was part of an evil plot, with other radicalised nutjobs, it doesn't in any way suggest to me there was a massive cover up amongst the wider Muslim community. In fact quite the opposite. It looks like nobody who knew him, had much clue what he was up to. It is exactly the same as saying lots of English men must have known about the bloke who killed Jo Cox. Especially Brexit voting little Englanders. They should have reported his plans.

 

The problem with the language you are using is, that it suggests, that Muslims, are, as a homogeneous group, a problem. All guilty to some extent or another. Yes there are some good ones, but they should do more.

That sort of rhetoric is fundamentally wrong. The problem is the nutjobs who attach themselves to a religion or ideology in the name of violence. Or the nutjobs who are so radicalised by a religion or ideology that they commit violence. These are the issue, not a whole religious community. If you cannot see that then, you, are also part of the problem.

What language or rhetoric am I using please enlighten me? In none of my posts have I suggested all Muslims to blame in fact I've intimated that it's a small minority. I wish people would read what I said before making stupid comments. Edited March 24, 2017 by Mounts Kipper

[frank_spencer]

There seems to be some idea that Islamic community groups aren't working to stop radicalisation and reporting these things to the authorities if they find them.

When if folk took the time to look in to these things they'd see that there are already massive amounts of evidence to show these things are actually happening.

[bwfcfan5]

What language or rhetoric am I using please enlighten me? In none of my posts have I suggested all Muslims to blame in fact I've intimated that it's a small minority. I wish people would read what I said before making stupid comments.

 

Firstly you tried to insinuate that being Muslim means you either co-operate with radicals or are too scared to report them. Secondly you seemed to suggest it is the religion itself which is the problem, rather than doing what a rational person would and disassociate the underlying religion from the terrorist factions that operate in its name. That language and rhetoric. 

[Mounts Kipper]

Firstly you tried to insinuate that being Muslim means you either co-operate with radicals or are too scared to report them. Secondly you seemed to suggest it is the religion itself which is the problem, rather than doing what a rational person would and disassociate the underlying religion from the terrorist factions that operate in its name. That language and rhetoric.

 

Once again you insinuate incorrectly I said some Moslems will know he planned this no doubt a very small tight knit group its also likely that a smaller number might have suspicions that this was being planned maybe their wife's or close friends who either sympathise or who are possibly frightened to say anything it is clear that the the over whelming Muslim community obviously won't know.

 

it's well known that certain Moslems interpret the Koran literally and that's at odds with western culture, can we agree that's a problem for Islam? and directly the cause of this type of Terrorist action? This is an Islamic problem it cannot be disassociated from this religion and to do so is just another attempt by the PC brigade to deflect criticism from where the blame lies.

[kent_white]

Strangely found myself agreeing with Paul Nuttall on this this morning.....

[bwfcfan5]

Once again you insinuate incorrectly I said some Moslems will know he planned this no doubt a very small tight knit group its also likely that a smaller number might have suspicions that this was being planned maybe their wife's or close friends who either sympathise or who are possibly frightened to say anything it is clear that the the over whelming Muslim community obviously won't know.

 

 

Why would it be Muslims? He lived in a neighbourhood with non-Muslims. Some of them saw him regularly. Why wouldn't they have known? This is the dangerous rhetoric. Trying to imply that someone is necessarily interconnected with the entirety of a faith group in a certain place. And the implication that some of them must have known and should have done something.

 

IF he planned it with people, they are also terrorists. But they were by that fact never going to report it. Why would it be reasonable to assume that others knew? If it is reasonable to assume that, then why wouldn't his non-Muslim neighbourhood have been expected to know. The ones who saw him gardening every day, for example?

[deane koontz]

Strangely found myself agreeing with Paul Nuttall on this this morning.....

 

Paul Nuttalls of the ukips?

[Spider]

If anyone thinks your average islamic terrrist is going down the mosque this afternoon and telling everyone in there that he's off to kill folk for Allah, then you're thicker than skipful of lobby.

 

These people work in very small cells, off most radars and away from prying eyes and ears. They certainly don't tell the local Imam about the new knife they just bought for slicing up infidels.

 

I also would think that the Islamic communities would want these cunts nowhere near them either and would happily dob them in (i bet they already do, but it's kept quiet so it can carry on happening for everyone's benefit).

 

I'm not being a bedwetter, but the main aim of these bellends is clearly to divide communities and push their stone age agenda. That will happen if either side allows it.

 

Fact is, they are lone wolf types and are by their very nature a fucking nightmare to spot.

[madthatter]

 

 

Fact is, they are lone wolf types and are by their very nature a fucking nightmare to spot.

 

Not when they look and act like this

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Ten arrests and seven in custody. Two of which are significant.

Suggestions are that he had associates or people who were aware of his intentions.

 

Don't think its necessarily folk knowing for sure exactly what a potential terrorist is going to do, more their behaviour or views that might ring alarm bells.

[gonzo]

I must keep an eye out for blokes reading the Koran out loud in the big knife section in Morrisons this weekend.

[madthatter]

Ten arrests and seven in custody. Two of which are significant.

Suggestions are that he had associates or people who were aware of his intentions.

 

Don't think its necessarily folk knowing for sure exactly what a potential terrorist is going to do, more their behaviour or views that might ring alarm bells.

 

Aye.  I think Cas alluded to this earlier but you could say the same for nonces, rapists etc.  They are all someones brother, son etc but still manage to go on convincing folk they are reet.  Should we blame the parents of a 40 year old rapist for not stopping or reporting him?

 

What I will say is that maybe the Muslim community could be more vocal on condemning such attacks and ideologies(maybe they are but it doesn't get much attention - wouldn't surprise me tbf).  It does seem that whenever Muslim communities share space with others trouble happens . . .

 

I offer Chinese communities across the world as a counter; they practice their faith, keep their beliefs etc but do it quietly and open it to anyone.  My experiences of Muslim communities, in minority settings, is not the same at all (generally).  I think there's something in that

Edited March 24, 2017 by madthatter

[deane koontz]

What Spider says and anybody who thinks otherwise is a bit of a fucking plank.

[Latham8WFC]

Interesting article regarding the 'Lone Wolf' strategy

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/04/world/asia/isis-messaging-app-terror-plot.html

[kent_white]

Paul Nuttalls of the ukips?

Yes - him with the degree who played for Tranmere and lost his mate at Hillsborough.

 

First time I've aver said that and probably the last.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

I must keep an eye out for blokes reading the Koran out loud in the big knife section in Morrisons this weekend.

It would be a bit odd though.

Remember after 9-11, I was on the bus going to work in manc. Got to Cheetham Hill and an Asian fella with a huge beard gets on with a ruck sack. The tension was palpable and every passenger clocked him; some shifting uneasily in their seats.

Looking back it was funny though not at the time.

[Zico]

What I will say is that maybe the Muslim community could be more vocal on condemning such attacks and ideologies(maybe they are but it doesn't get much attention - wouldn't surprise me tbf).  It does seem that whenever Muslim communities share space with others trouble happens . . .

 

this always gets said

 

and you're right, they are already vocal

 

some folk seem to want one to come and knock on their door and offer an apology

 

there were some at the vigil in london last night wearing t shirts that said "I'm a muslim, come and ask me anything" - the majority are like that

 

the 2nd bit of what you say is just ridiculous

 

also

 

apparently there are 3000 muslims on the m15 watch list, obviously that's not all the dodgy ones, there will be more, and others on the way to being converted, but as a percentage of all the muslims in the UK (2,706,066 in 2011), that's 0.1% of British muslims who are terrorists

 

so it almost sounds like a cliche to say 99.9% of muslims are probably ok

[madthatter]

 

 

the 2nd bit of what you say is just ridiculous

 

 

 

Not in my experience.  As I said in my post, which you've left out, if you compare with other migrant communities across the world there is more noticeable agro with Muslims.  Again, maybe the press help foster this view?  Look at S Thailand as an example.

 

fwiw - I've spent time in Muslim countries/communities and have encountered many 'salt of the earth' types.  I'm generalising, I know, but it's not a ridiculous statement in my opinion.  It's what I'd call a closed culture. 

 

Anyway, my point wasn't just to have a pop at Muslims; I was trying to say that if more folk knew about the good work they do the angst and bad feeling, racial profiling etc would decrease.

Edited March 24, 2017 by madthatter

[Ani]

this always gets said

 

and you're right, they are already vocal

 

some folk seem to want one to come and knock on their door and offer an apology

 

there were some at the vigil in london last night wearing t shirts that said "I'm a muslim, come and ask me anything" - the majority are like that

 

the 2nd bit of what you say is just ridiculous

 

also

 

apparently there are 3000 muslims on the m15 watch list, obviously that's not all the dodgy ones, there will be more, and others on the way to being converted, but as a percentage of all the muslims in the UK (2,706,066 in 2011), that's 0.1% of British muslims who are terrorists

 

so it almost sounds like a cliche to say 99.9% of muslims are probably ok

It is actually 0.1% who are considered a risk not that are terrorists.

 

Suppose there are also those that are off radar.

 

I still do not quite get what people think we should be doing about 'them'. They are here so closing the borders does not work Born here so can not be sent back, locked up too many for that.

 

Ban the religion ? Make them fit in ?

 

It is a scary mess but not really heard a decent option put forward.

[mickbrown]

If anyone thinks your average islamic terrrist is going down the mosque this afternoon and telling everyone in there that he's off to kill folk for Allah, then you're thicker than skipful of lobby.

 

These people work in very small cells, off most radars and away from prying eyes and ears. They certainly don't tell the local Imam about the new knife they just bought for slicing up infidels.

 

I also would think that the Islamic communities would want these cunts nowhere near them either and would happily dob them in (i bet they already do, but it's kept quiet so it can carry on happening for everyone's benefit).

 

I'm not being a bedwetter, but the main aim of these bellends is clearly to divide communities and push their stone age agenda. That will happen if either side allows it.

 

Fact is, they are lone wolf types and are by their very nature a fucking nightmare to spot.

 

Boom (so to speak).

 

Nailed it.