6 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I hope you're right mate. And the Greece talk does sound a little premature to me. But just the fact that it's a such a monumental fuck up that it's even being considered in those terms is concerning.

The thing is - there's probably a lot of sense in what they're trying to do. They've just done it too quickly, too brutally and without any consideration of the markets or public opinion. 

If you're going to embark on this kind of phase as a party, then you have to be damn sure that you're bringing people along with you. 

Totally agree that a GE would be the most sensible option. Truss has no mandate for this. If she wants one - then she needs to put this idea to the people and let them judge it for themselves. 

My worry is about the damage has already been done.

Really the only ones you need onside are the markets and the institutions like the BOE. If they are happy the impact such as interest rates jumping do not happen and to the general public all is rosy. 
The simple question no one seems to have asked is ' why the rush?' Clearly the announcements of energy cap was needed and welcome but why run in with tax announcements most of which do not happen overnight. Just take some time , produce the numbers, and tell the full story. 
Every answer they give at the moment is 'we had to do something on energy prices' not sure anyone disagrees about that. But that does not explain the decision to go ahead with announcing tax cuts the next day. 
 

It is such a bizarre situation 

3 minutes ago, Ani said:

Really the only ones you need onside are the markets and the institutions like the BOE. If they are happy the impact such as interest rates jumping do not happen and to the general public all is rosy. 
The simple question no one seems to have asked is ' why the rush?' Clearly the announcements of energy cap was needed and welcome but why run in with tax announcements most of which do not happen overnight. Just take some time , produce the numbers, and tell the full story. 
Every answer they give at the moment is 'we had to do something on energy prices' not sure anyone disagrees about that. But that does not explain the decision to go ahead with announcing tax cuts the next day. 
 

It is such a bizarre situation 

I think that's the point Im trying to make. It's been done really quickly and without the proper checks and balances. 

Probably because if it went through the proper checks and balances - they'd have been reined in. 

It is bizarre. But then the whole circus since the Tories last got into power has been bizarre. 

2 minutes ago, Ani said:

Really the only ones you need onside are the markets and the institutions like the BOE. If they are happy the impact such as interest rates jumping do not happen and to the general public all is rosy. 
The simple question no one seems to have asked is ' why the rush?' Clearly the announcements of energy cap was needed and welcome but why run in with tax announcements most of which do not happen overnight. Just take some time , produce the numbers, and tell the full story. 
Every answer they give at the moment is 'we had to do something on energy prices' not sure anyone disagrees about that. But that does not explain the decision to go ahead with announcing tax cuts the next day. 
 

It is such a bizarre situation 

It was and it appears they had no idea of the impact this mini-budget was going to have. There is an appalling level of ignorance being shown by Truss and Kwarteng.
 

They should have a complete U turn otherwise she will be out of office before Christmas.

3 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I think that's the point Im trying to make. It's been done really quickly and without the proper checks and balances. 

Probably because if it went through the proper checks and balances - they'd have been reined in. 

It is bizarre. But then the whole circus since the Tories last got into power has been bizarre. 

I agree 100% , but no one has asked why the rush ? In politics one thing you have to do is control the narrative. By not doing the basics they lose control. 
So say their numbers made sense and assume borrowing is costed at 2% over 5 years, but that has now risen to 4% the numbers will be bullocks. 
 

The spooking of the gilts market is not simply the product of Kwarteng and Trussonomics.

Rishi, as Chancellor in 2020 decided to change the definition in RPI with effect from 2030. There was a judicial review to challenge that decision granted to a consortium of BT, Ford UK, and Marks & Spencer Pension Funds. 

Last month the judicial review was thrown out by Mr Justice Holgate. The ramifications of this are a massive loss to those PFs and all other investors in indexed-linked gilts running beyond 2030. The implications of this took time to filter through as the decision did not receive much (if any) press/media attention. The markets were already spooked before KK's non-budget, so its negative effect was even more destabilising to gilts investors, both domestic and international.

This is in no way an excuse for the way the Greenwich duo have performed, by the way.

46 minutes ago, MalcolmW said:

The spooking of the gilts market is not simply the product of Kwarteng and Trussonomics.

Rishi, as Chancellor in 2020 decided to change the definition in RPI with effect from 2030. There was a judicial review to challenge that decision granted to a consortium of BT, Ford UK, and Marks & Spencer Pension Funds. 

Last month the judicial review was thrown out by Mr Justice Holgate. The ramifications of this are a massive loss to those PFs and all other investors in indexed-linked gilts running beyond 2030. The implications of this took time to filter through as the decision did not receive much (if any) press/media attention. The markets were already spooked before KK's non-budget, so its negative effect was even more destabilising to gilts investors, both domestic and international.

This is in no way an excuse for the way the Greenwich duo have performed, by the way.

So the point you are making is that some of the turmoil may have been caused by a different Tory than Truss and her mate ? 

1 hour ago, MalcolmW said:

The spooking of the gilts market is not simply the product of Kwarteng and Trussonomics.

Rishi, as Chancellor in 2020 decided to change the definition in RPI with effect from 2030. There was a judicial review to challenge that decision granted to a consortium of BT, Ford UK, and Marks & Spencer Pension Funds. 

Last month the judicial review was thrown out by Mr Justice Holgate. The ramifications of this are a massive loss to those PFs and all other investors in indexed-linked gilts running beyond 2030. The implications of this took time to filter through as the decision did not receive much (if any) press/media attention. The markets were already spooked before KK's non-budget, so its negative effect was even more destabilising to gilts investors, both domestic and international.

This is in no way an excuse for the way the Greenwich duo have performed, by the way.

Clearly Kwarteng and co know nothing about this.

8 minutes ago, Spider said:

Clearly Kwarteng and co know nothing about this.

Aye was all talk about footy and whether theyd rather fight a horse sized duck or a gang of duck size horses at that champagne bash

47 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Aye was all talk about footy and whether theyd rather fight a horse sized duck or a gang of duck size horses at that champagne bash

Reminds me of this

 

 

Kwartengs on the verge of ripping it up

10 minutes ago, Casino said:

Kwartengs on the verge of ripping it up

He’s no choice, toast the pair of them if not. Markets must have got wind of it happening as the ftse 250 and pound are up. 

Edited October 13, 20223 yr by Mounts Kipper

3 hours ago, Spider said:

Clearly Kwarteng and co know nothing about this.

It may well be so.

Just now, MalcolmW said:

It may well be so.

And they’re just the folk in charge.

Pitiful

3 hours ago, Spider said:

Clearly Kwarteng and co know nothing 

You didn't need all those words you typed.

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

He’s no choice, toast the pair of them if not. Markets must have got wind of it happening as the ftse 250 and pound are up. 

I think Kwartang is toast either way

4 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I think Kwartang is toast either way

He should never have been even remotely considered for the job, a bit like Truss in that regard.

When truss goes, what do the tories do

The country cant wait 8 weeks for a new PM, be it to elect a new tory leader or elect a PM

Its an utter fucking shambles and its on the tories

Fwiw, id prefer to give Sunak 18 months from Monday

Give it Mourdant

Were through the looking glass now so it may as well be some eye candy because at least it’s something.

Bring back Boris 

36 minutes ago, royal white said:

Bring back Boris 

That daft twat is the one that over promoted these dicks in the first place.

Having fucked off most of the talent first

The cnut

Kwarteng another gift to the nation from Eton. Place needs disbanding.

7 hours ago, royal white said:

Bring back Boris 

If you’d said May, I’d have agreed.

Boris is very much part of this problem and if you can’t see why, then you’re going to need the Labybird pop-up book of politics.

10 hours ago, Sweep said:

I think Kwartang is toast either way

Sickening. 
 

(burnt toast would have been worse) 

Edited October 14, 20223 yr by Ani

10 hours ago, Casino said:

When truss goes, what do the tories do

The country cant wait 8 weeks for a new PM, be it to elect a new tory leader or elect a PM

Its an utter fucking shambles and its on the tories

Fwiw, id prefer to give Sunak 18 months from Monday

If she does not resign presumably there will some type of challenge and then do we have the same doing fuck all we had over the summer ?

If she does resign it might be quicker but still rudderless for weeks.