Politics

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

So you have to agree with 100% of what a party puts in it's manifesto in order to vote for it? 

Makes a mockery of your trying to to show the recent election meant anything

[Moon boy]

2 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Wrong? Not often. Completely accurate? No.

There have been lots of polls all saying the same thing. Including an internal Labour one. 60-70% of Labour voters in 2017 were remain voters. 

The demographics have shifted. Bulk of Labour vote want to remain. Like bulk of Tory vote wants to leave. Labour need to support clearly a second referendum or risk losing a lot of their vote. And yes they risk losing some Northern traditional voters in doing so. Just like the Tories risk losing the 30% of their vote that wants to remain.  But it makes sense to go with the bulk of your voters doesn’t it?

 

 

I pray that Labour follow the Tom Watson approach at the next GE, they’ll be toast

A new Tory PM, almost certainly Boris, will have to get us out of the EU by Oct31st, whether with a new deal or a managed ‘without a deal’, if the Remainers in Parliament try to block it happening, Boris has two choices Prorogue Parliament or call/ be forced into a GE

If we leave on Oct31st, what Tom Watson wants or what JC want is irrelevant, the job is done

If we end up with a GE the situation is completely unpredictable and would change politics in this country for ever

[Winchester White]

51 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

An interesting read, but you’ll need 15 minutes

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/ivan-rogers-no-deal-is-now-the-most-likely-outcome/

A good article. I must admit I am surprised you posted it as it is very anti-brexit.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

A good article. I must admit I am surprised you posted it as it is very anti-brexit.

I am fair about what I post, despite what some think.

i look to add to knowledge and the discussion, as who knows how it will end up, really?

[Farrelli]

20 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

Which proves my point, leave/remain wasn't the deciding point, and you was happy to vote for a prty commited to leave.

So why are certain activists insisting they change policy ?

You, yourself, are the perfect example as to why Fan5 is wrong.

I think he is referring to people actually polled. I'm not really sure where yougov got their data. 

Only a second referendum can categorically put the leave/remain argument to bed.

[Salford Trotter]

31 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

Pretty much.

So therefore as Labour won 40% of the vote in 17 on a leave ticket, its a long jump to assume that they need to go remain to satisfy their voters and members.

Maybe 80% do want to remain, but don't care enough to not vote for a leave party ?

who knows, certainly not the pollsters if recent events are evidence.

You know that is bollocks

Edited June 18, 2019 by Salford Trotter

[ZiggyStardust]

1 minute ago, Farrelli said:

I think he is referring to people actually polled. I'm not really sure where yougov got their data. 

Only a second referendum can categorically put the leave/remain argument to bed.

You really think it would ?

The genie is out of the bottle, going to be hard, either way, to placate a large chunk of the population.

[Salford Trotter]

30 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Makes a mockery of your trying to to show the recent election meant anything

The recent elections were in effect  about brexit the last GE wasn't

[Farrelli]

Just now, ZiggyStardust said:

You really think it would ?

The genie is out of the bottle, going to be hard, either way, to placate a large chunk of the population.

There is no easy way out but that seems the best option IMO. Either way a large part of the population will be unhappy.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

The recent elections were in effect  about brexit the last GE wasn't

Apart from those who voted on traditional lines.

How many were they?

Edited June 18, 2019 by boltondiver

[Salford Trotter]

Just now, boltondiver said:

Apart from those who votes on traditional lines.

How many were they?

Given the fact that there was a new party involved in the EU elections and the Lib Dems did so well in the local elections i would suggest that there was a huge amount of tactical voting around one issue, don't you? 

[Guest]

Just now, Salford Trotter said:

Given the fact that there was a new party involved in the EU elections and the Lib Dems did so well in the local elections i would suggest that there was a huge amount of tactical voting around one issue, don't you? 

A reasonable suggestion 

[Farrelli]

3 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Apart from those who votes on traditional lines.

How many were they?

Traditionally no fucker bothers to vote in the EU elections so safe to say a statement was being made.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Farrelli said:

Traditionally no fucker bothers to vote in the EU elections so safe to say a statement was being made.

Sure

[Mounts Kipper]

EU looking to start QE again as Europe economy stalls, they’d better look at reopening that WA and getting us to sign a deal to help bail them out. 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

EU looking to start QE again as Europe economy stalls, they’d better look at reopening that WA and getting us to sign a deal to help bail them out. 

The Project is more important than economic success

[Farrelli]

3 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

The Project is more important than economic success

You could say the same about Euro sceptics over here. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

You could say the same about Euro sceptics over here. 

Absolutely 

[darwen_white]

9 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Who? A political party represents its voters and members. 

 

Representation is the job of a Trade Union.

Political parties present a manifesto and we vote for it. 

[bwfcfan5]

11 hours ago, ZiggyStardust said:

At the last election, 100% of Labour voters voted for a party committed to honouring the referendum result.

Which kind of overules any polls, No ?

And the election before in 2015 every single Tory and Labour vote was for parties wanting to stay in the EU...you should now see how flawed your argument is.

The Labour manifesto talked about avoiding a damaging hard Brexit. So it was certainly not as clear cut as you’d make out. 

[ZiggyStardust]

11 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

And the election before in 2015 every single Tory and Labour vote was for parties wanting to stay in the EU...you should now see how flawed your argument is.

The Labour manifesto talked about avoiding a damaging hard Brexit. So it was certainly not as clear cut as you’d make out. 

If you could point out the bits in the Tory & Labour 2015 manefestos where they state they are remain parties, that would be super.

Many thanks in advance.

(Of course, if you can't, we can file this under the ever expanding 'Fan5 - stuff I made up folder')

[Tonge moor green jacket]

28 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

If you could point out the bits in the Tory & Labour 2015 manefestos where they state they are remain parties, that would be super.

Many thanks in advance.

(Of course, if you can't, we can file this under the ever expanding 'Fan5 - stuff I made up folder')

One of his biggest ever whoppers.

[Farrelli]

31 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

If you could point out the bits in the Tory & Labour 2015 manefestos where they state they are remain parties, that would be super.

Many thanks in advance.

(Of course, if you can't, we can file this under the ever expanding 'Fan5 - stuff I made up folder')

You will need a bloody big filing cabinet for bollocks posted by brexiteers on here. 

All the main parties were remain orientated in 2015 because leaving was a pipe dream by a section of the Tories and Nigel Farage. David Cameron has a lot to answer for.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ZiggyStardust said:

If you could point out the bits in the Tory & Labour 2015 manefestos where they state they are remain parties, that would be super.

Many thanks in advance.

(Of course, if you can't, we can file this under the ever expanding 'Fan5 - stuff I made up folder')

Did you mean 2017 manifestos?

[bwfcfan5]

1 hour ago, ZiggyStardust said:

If you could point out the bits in the Tory & Labour 2015 manefestos where they state they are remain parties, that would be super.

Many thanks in advance.

(Of course, if you can't, we can file this under the ever expanding 'Fan5 - stuff I made up folder')

Page 72 of the Tory manifesto.

We are clear about what we want from Europe� We say: yes to the Single Market� Yes to turbo- charging free trade� Yes to working together where we are stronger together than alone� Yes to a family of nation states, all part of a European Union – but whose interests, crucially, are guaranteed whether inside the Euro or out� No to ‘ever closer union.’ No to a constant flow of power to Brussels� No to unnecessary interference� And no, of course, to the Euro, to participation in Eurozone bail-outs or notions like a European Army�

Page 101 of the Labour 2015 manifesto

Labour believes that our membership of the European Union is central to our prosperity and security. It is why we will work to change the EU, so that it operates in the best interests of our country. And it is why we will re-engage with our European allies to protect our national interest after five years of Britain being sidelined in Europe and isolated abroad....

 

It goes on to explain why economically we should stay still. But this is enough. Both manifestos clearly were ‘ we want to remain’. The Tories wanted reform and remain with a referendum. But still under Cameron they were a remain party. When you’ve done making nonsense up please rejoin the real world. I won’t hold my breath...