Politics

[Escobarp]

23 hours ago, Salford Trotter said:

GDP is an indisputable indicator of the wealth/success of an economy and is a recognised comparative across the world so it is very relevant to the debate.

I am facilitating a brexit strategy session with a European small cap business in Rotterdam next week so your different perspective would be welcome Stu

I’m not saying it’s not a key or the most utilized measure of economic prosperity but what I am

saying is in isolation it gives a jaundiced view potentially on society and a growing GDP of a nation may not correlate to the welfare of the population and long term prosperity. It’s also key to look at spread of wealth in a nation which was where my reference to labour and it’s socialist views came from. Increase in GDP and an increase in wealth in real terms across the population are sadly not seen. 
 

various papers have been written addressing this and are a good read mate if you’ve got time 
 

 

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

I’m not saying it’s not a key or the most utilized measure of economic prosperity but what I am

saying is in isolation it gives a jaundiced view potentially on society and a growing GDP of a nation may not correlate to the welfare of the population and long term prosperity. It’s also key to look at spread of wealth in a nation which was where my reference to labour and it’s socialist views came from. Increase in GDP and an increase in wealth in real terms across the population are sadly not seen. 
 

various papers have been written addressing this and are a good read mate if you’ve got time 
 

 

Time may not be the issue?

[Salford Trotter]

39 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

I’m not saying it’s not a key or the most utilized measure of economic prosperity but what I am

saying is in isolation it gives a jaundiced view potentially on society and a growing GDP of a nation may not correlate to the welfare of the population and long term prosperity. It’s also key to look at spread of wealth in a nation which was where my reference to labour and it’s socialist views came from. Increase in GDP and an increase in wealth in real terms across the population are sadly not seen. 
 

various papers have been written addressing this and are a good read mate if you’ve got time 
 

 

Stu, I am not suggesting for a minute that there aren't other factors/measures to consider when interpreting the health of a nation, of course there are. However, in the context of the debate on here we are being constantly referred to a country's economic health in relation to the growth or decline of its GDP. Miami often refers to the German economy as its teetering on the edge of recession as if to say it proves a point about the fragility of the EU and it's future. Paul Hanley (I'm sure God loves him) frequently refers to how the corrupt folk in Brussels are holding us back from the promised land outside of the backward EU. So much so we are and have been missing out for decades on the huge growth opportunities outside of it (none of which is measurable or proven). All of these comparisons are measured in GDP so forgive me for using it as a constant. So back to my original point, when we leave the EU with or without a trade deal and our economy suffers as the vast majority of us believe it will do or perhaps it will flourish (and I will happily retire from this thread) then we have to judge the merits of whether that was the right decision for our economy or not primarly based on our GDP. 

[miamiwhite]

23 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

Stu, I am not suggesting for a minute that there aren't other factors/measures to consider when interpreting the health of a nation, of course there are. However, in the context of the debate on here we are being constantly referred to a country's economic health in relation to the growth or decline of its GDP. Miami often refers to the German economy as its teetering on the edge of recession as if to say it proves a point about the fragility of the EU and it's future. Paul Hanley (I'm sure God loves him) frequently refers to how the corrupt folk in Brussels are holding us back from the promised land outside of the backward EU. So much so we are and have been missing out for decades on the huge growth opportunities outside of it (none of which is measurable or proven). All of these comparisons are measured in GDP so forgive me for using it as a constant. So back to my original point, when we leave the EU with or without a trade deal and our economy suffers as the vast majority of us believe it will do or perhaps it will flourish (and I will happily retire from this thread) then we have to judge the merits of whether that was the right decision for our economy or not primarly based on our GDP. 

So basically Pete, when it does flourish, you will retire from this thread......your own words.

That shows your mettle fella

[Salford Trotter]

1 minute ago, miamiwhite said:

So basically Pete, when it does flourish, you will retire from this thread......your own words.

That shows your mettle fella

Suffice to say I won't be retiring from the thread😉

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Escobarp said:

I’m not saying it’s not a key or the most utilized measure of economic prosperity but what I am

saying is in isolation it gives a jaundiced view potentially on society and a growing GDP of a nation may not correlate to the welfare of the population and long term prosperity. It’s also key to look at spread of wealth in a nation which was where my reference to labour and it’s socialist views came from. Increase in GDP and an increase in wealth in real terms across the population are sadly not seen. 
 

various papers have been written addressing this and are a good read mate if you’ve got time 
 

 

You are correct that looking at inequality, poverty and deprivation indices are very important. Absolutely.

But not in respect of measuring the economic success or otherwise of Brexit. For that GDP and growth suffices. How any prosperity it delivers is then spread and managed internally isn’t a measure or otherwise of the economic impact of Brexit itself. You can grow the economy and do whatever with that growth. Internal politics dictate how wealth is spread whether in or out of the EU.

[miamiwhite]

4 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

Suffice to say I won't be retiring from the thread😉

Why lie then ?

You accuse Mounts of lying 

[Escobarp]

24 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

You are correct that looking at inequality, poverty and deprivation indices are very important. Absolutely.

But not in respect of measuring the economic success or otherwise of Brexit. For that GDP and growth suffices. How any prosperity it delivers is then spread and managed internally isn’t a measure or otherwise of the economic impact of Brexit itself. You can grow the economy and do whatever with that growth. Internal politics dictate how wealth is spread whether in or out of the EU.

I stand by my inference that gdp in isolation isn’t a true reflection of the economic success or prosperity of a country as a whole. Merely one indicator albeit a large indicator. 
 

i do agree the politics of a country affects wealth distribution but again not in isolation  

if you would like to engage with me around economics etc please pm me more than happy to Debate with you but don’t wish to hog the board 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Escobarp

[Salford Trotter]

1 hour ago, miamiwhite said:

Why lie then ?

You accuse Mounts of lying 

I won't be retiring from the thread because I believe our economy will be poorer as a result of leaving the EU. If that is incorrect and our economy grows expedentially then I will retire I promise. Let's take that view in 5 years shall we? 

[miamiwhite]

4 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

I won't be retiring from the thread because I believe our economy will be poorer as a result of leaving the EU. If that is incorrect and our economy grows expedentially then I will retire I promise. Let's take that view in 5 years shall we? 

Like fuck you will retire when we are booming.

You can stay here and eat your humble pie, which Mick from Leigh, Wigan will supply.

[Mounts Kipper]

11 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

I won't be retiring from the thread because I believe our economy will be poorer as a result of leaving the EU. If that is incorrect and our economy grows expedentially then I will retire I promise. Let's take that view in 5 years shall we? 

Even if we’re booming you’ll come up with some bollocks to try to prove you were right all along. 

[Escobarp]

A lot of anger around this place today gents.  

[Salford Trotter]

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Even if we’re booming you’ll come up with some bollocks to try to prove you were right all along. 

That's why I suggested we take GDP as THE measure, agreed? 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Salford Trotter

[miamiwhite]

Party time.......may I cordially invite ST, Cheese, fan5, Mick Brown, Leigh Blue, NiC, Kent and Jol to my bash 

https://mobile.twitter.com/drdavidbull/status/1213470406688092160?s=09

[Mounts Kipper]

14 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

That's why I suggested we take GDP as THE measure, agreed? 

You would have to compare it against EU  GDP when we leave and track the % difference going forward. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Mounts Kipper

[Spider]

15 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

Party time.......may I cordially invite ST, Cheese, fan5, Mick Brown, Leigh Blue, NiC, Kent and Jol to my bash 

https://mobile.twitter.com/drdavidbull/status/1213470406688092160?s=09

You’ll have to pay for my ticket

#BitSkint

[Salford Trotter]

10 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You would have to compare it against EU  GDP when we leave and track the % difference going forward. 

Not a problem 👍

[Mounts Kipper]

25 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

Party time.......may I cordially invite ST, Cheese, fan5, Mick Brown, Leigh Blue, NiC, Kent and Jol to my bash 

https://mobile.twitter.com/drdavidbull/status/1213470406688092160?s=09

I fancy this. 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You would have to compare it against EU  GDP when we leave and track the % difference going forward. 

Track it against the G7. We have the 2015 pre Brexit comparative data. And the UK’s relative performance is best tracked against the G7. 

[Cheese]

59 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

Party time.......may I cordially invite ST, Cheese, fan5, Mick Brown, Leigh Blue, NiC, Kent and Jol to my bash 

https://mobile.twitter.com/drdavidbull/status/1213470406688092160?s=09

Cheers for the invite Nige, but I'm OK ta. 

[Mounts Kipper]

18 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Track it against the G7. We have the 2015 pre Brexit comparative data. And the UK’s relative performance is best tracked against the G7. 

It should be tracked against the E.U. as were leaving the E.U. the G7 is irrelevant. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I fancy this. 

I’ll have to watch it on BBC or, better still, C4

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Spider said:

You’ll have to pay for my ticket

#BitSkint

I got the impression it's free!

That said £10 per person isn't a lot in London, so you may be right.

[miamiwhite]

57 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Cheers for the invite Nige, but I'm OK ta. 

No probs Owen

 

Thought you were on here ....

https://mobile.twitter.com/kinnell2/status/1212801965220081664?s=09

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

Cheers for the invite Nige, but I'm OK ta. 

You’re too young in any event!