Politics

[Escobarp]

4 minutes ago, kent_white said:

They'd go bust pretty soon. They tried clamping down in London a few years back. Making people prove they had a right to treatment before they were admitted. Out of 9000 people - they found about 50 who were eligible to pay something. 

It's not like the NHS hasn't thought of this before. I'm sure we'd love another £600m or whatever they're claiming it is this week. But the practicalities of claiming it back are prohibitive. 

Anyway - it's a nice smokescreen up in front of the chronic underfunding.

Wouldn’t have thought London was the most sensible place to run a sample like that tbh 

what about somewhere like ....... bolton or similar that would appear to make more sense? 
unless of course the intention of the exercise as to prove that it’s not worthwhile in which case choose London. 🧐

[Tonge moor green jacket]

I don't get it, for the most part, patients should be quite able to produce necessary insurance documents at time of treatment. Admin then sets up the invoice within the IT system, and as soon as treatment is finished, invoice is sent.

Companies don't go around not invoicing customers; maybe a touch of privatisation required!

[kent_white]

4 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Wouldn’t have thought London was the most sensible place to run a sample like that tbh 

what about somewhere like ....... bolton or similar that would appear to make more sense? 
unless of course the intention of the exercise as to prove that it’s not worthwhile in which case choose London. 🧐

It's one of the most culturally diverse cities on the planet and has a huge migrant population. You'd be surprised how few foreigners turn up if you ever worked in A&E. 

[kent_white]

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I don't get it, for the most part, patients should be quite able to produce necessary insurance documents at time of treatment. Admin then sets up the invoice within the IT system, and as soon as treatment is finished, invoice is sent.

Companies don't go around not invoicing customers; maybe a touch of privatisation required!

You tend not to worry about that if someone's coming in with their arm hanging off.

[paulhanley]

3 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Saw this on Twitter.😂

 

 

Is that Salford Trotter? Or Cheese?

Possibly not.

If it was either of them two there'd be a hole in the bucket as well! Remoan! Remoan!!

[Mounts Kipper]

4 minutes ago, kent_white said:

You tend not to worry about that if someone's coming in with their arm hanging off.

all the European countries manage to charge arm hanging of or not, it needs sorting, it’s our money and money we could spend in our own, absolutely no excuses. 

 

[Escobarp]

2 minutes ago, kent_white said:

It's one of the most culturally diverse cities on the planet and has a huge migrant population. You'd be surprised how few foreigners turn up if you ever worked in A&E. 

I know that mate I have been on the odd occasion and worked there for 18 months. But I would have thought  that a large number of the migrant population will be from outwith the EU so would either be covered under some other agreement between the UK and their own country or pay at source or covered by insurance that was my thought process I just thought the makeup of the migrant population in Bolton May be somewhat different  

but I shall bow down to your inside working knowledge of Bolton general And what you see on the ground and accept my point as null and void. Thanks for clearing it up much appreciated 

[kent_white]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

all the European countries manage to charge arm hanging of or not, it needs sorting, it’s our money and money we could spend in our own, absolutely no excuses. 

 

Righto - I'll remember your wise words next time it happens.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 minutes ago, kent_white said:

You tend not to worry about that if someone's coming in with their arm hanging off.

That's not what I said though, the "for the most part" covered that.

What proportion of A and E visitors are actually fucked, and how many are compos mentis?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

Righto - I'll remember your wise words next time it happens.

He's right though. As a medical professional, perhaps it isn't your job to be worrying about such things, however it's not beyond the wit of man to sort it or improve it.

You'd quite like a slice of that wasted money in your pay packet and the rest on equipment etc I would assume.

[kent_white]

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

That's not what I said though, the "for the most part" covered that.

What proportion of A and E visitors are actually fucked, and how many are compos mentis?

Most people are walking wounded. And a great many should be at their GP. I'd hazard a guess the ones who should really be at their Doctors cost the NHS far more than health tourism does. The ones who need really serious treatment tend to get whisked straight through so you never actually see them as a patient waiting in A&E.

[Mounts Kipper]

4 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Righto - I'll remember your wise words next time it happens.

I’m not saying nurses, medics, doctors should be in charge of collecting the required info but there should be a designated non medical staff member to take care of it. 

[kent_white]

Just now, Mounts Kipper said:

I’m not saying nurses, medics, doctors should be in charge of collecting the required info but there should be a designated non medical staff member to take care of it. 

I know - I'm just being stupid. We just don't have the resources to be paying people to go around doing that kind of work. And like I said - I think the returns would be so little it would cost most to employ someone that you'd ever make back. 

I'm all for it if someone can think of a way of doing it that doesn't lose us more money - and doesn't get in the way of people getting treatment. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Just now, kent_white said:

Most people are walking wounded. And a great many should be at their GP. I'd hazard a guess the ones who should really be at their Doctors cost the NHS far more than health tourism does. The ones who need really serious treatment tend to get whisked straight through so you never actually see them as a patient waiting in A&E.

That £600 million to go into GP services then?

There's is many a reason why pillocks keep turning up to a and e when they shouldn't, and lack of available appointments is one of them.

I'm quite happy for the NHS not to have to be so efficient that they're accounting for every penny, as that means too many non productive bean counters, but bugger fuck twat, is it really so difficult to do?

[kent_white]

10 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

I know that mate I have been on the odd occasion and worked there for 18 months. But I would have thought  that a large number of the migrant population will be from outwith the EU so would either be covered under some other agreement between the UK and their own country or pay at source or covered by insurance that was my thought process I just thought the makeup of the migrant population in Bolton May be somewhat different  

but I shall bow down to your inside working knowledge of Bolton general And what you see on the ground and accept my point as null and void. Thanks for clearing it up much appreciated 

I see what you mean. That it might be easier to claim it back from EU nationals? And they're more likely to be from outside London? That makes sense I guess. It's not going to get any easier when we leave though. Although I suppose you could argue there will be less here.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

I know - I'm just being stupid. We just don't have the resources to be paying people to go around doing that kind of work. And like I said - I think the returns would be so little it would cost most to employ someone that you'd ever make back. 

I'm all for it if someone can think of a way of doing it that doesn't lose us more money - and doesn't get in the way of people getting treatment. 

Is the name/address/nationality of every patient not gathered as soon as is possible upon entry?

That's a decent place to start.

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

I see what you mean. That it might be easier to claim it back from EU nationals? And they're more likely to be from outside London? That makes sense I guess. It's not going to get any easier when we leave though. Although I suppose you could argue there will be less here.

Yes that was my point mate. We have an explicit agreement with the eu that allows a recharge of all healthcare costs which we simply fail to follow through as a country.
 

 

[kent_white]

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

That £600 million to go into GP services then?

There's is many a reason why pillocks keep turning up to a and e when they shouldn't, and lack of available appointments is one of them.

I'm quite happy for the NHS not to have to be so efficient that they're accounting for every penny, as that means too many non productive bean counters, but bugger fuck twat, is it really so difficult to do?

Most GP's are private businesses - they're not NHS. But I suppose you could do that - but you'd come back to the issue of it costing more than you save.

Just stick a penny on the pound on income tax and we'd have none of these problems. I know people don't like paying more - but it's one of the only things really worth investing in. In my eyes anyway.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, Escobarp said:

Yes that was my point mate. We have an explicit agreement with the eu that allows a recharge of all healthcare costs which we simply fail to follow through as a country.
 

 

I'm pretty sure that not too long ago there was an article/report from some top NHS official who didn't feel it was right to claim the money back. Could be wrong.

[kent_white]

5 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Is the name/address/nationality of every patient not gathered as soon as is possible upon entry?

That's a decent place to start.

Yes they are - but most health tourists would just give you a false name and address wouldn't they? There's no ID checks or anything like that. If someone comes in and says they're name is Bill Smith - then they're Bill Smith.

[Guest]

Just now, kent_white said:

Most GP's are private businesses - they're not NHS. But I suppose you could do that - but you'd come back to the issue of it costing more than you save.

Just stick a penny on the pound on income tax and we'd have none of these problems. I know people don't like paying more - but it's one of the only things really worth investing in. In my eyes anyway.

Stick a penny in the pound?

 

the new funding is much more than that, I think

Folks will still be moaning, wasting money and insisting we should put a penny in the pound in and it’s underfunded.

Why not have people who use it from abroad pay? Seems fair to me.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Just now, kent_white said:

Most GP's are private businesses - they're not NHS. But I suppose you could do that - but you'd come back to the issue of it costing more than you save.

Just stick a penny on the pound on income tax and we'd have none of these problems. I know people don't like paying more - but it's one of the only things really worth investing in. In my eyes anyway.

Make the collection private. They take 10% of what they recoup.

With GPs, businesses they maybe, but Boris has promised more doctors etc for the very reason to keep them out of hospital.

Also who pays the GPS for their services?

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I'm pretty sure that not too long ago there was an article/report from some top NHS official who didn't feel it was right to claim the money back. Could be wrong.

If that’s the case then he should be hung out to dry. We are paying god knows how much for our reciprocal use of EU healthcare so we should claim every penny. It’s a travesty that we don’t have a system for it. 
 

it’s ok for someone lying in a Spanish hospital to be asked how they are paying for cover and to fill in forms for recharge but if we do this it’s wrong?

im sure it would outrage some snowflakes group somewhere and all be the fault of the Tories to claim back money we are legally owed and a protest would commence about it 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Yes they are - but most health tourists would just give you a false name and address wouldn't they? There's no ID checks or anything like that. If someone comes in and says they're name is Bill Smith - then they're Bill Smith.

Therein is the problem- no id checks- why the fuck not?

These folk must have a passport or some such. Would it be beyond the realms of possibility for all health insurance policies to be accessible on a database?

When visitors arrive through customs- no insurance- no entry. Take a government one out there and then or turn round and back home.

 

[kent_white]

3 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Stick a penny in the pound?

 

the new funding is much more than that, I think

Folks will still be moaning, wasting money and insisting we should put a penny in the pound in and it’s underfunded.

Why not have people who use it from abroad pay? Seems fair to me.

That 1p is on top of the money for the next 5 years. Don't forget it's been well underfunded for the best part of a decade so it's playing catch up. 

Like I said - if you can get the people from abroad to pay, in a way that doesn't cost more than they would recoup and doesn't interfere with patient care - then I'm all for it.

I'm sure the NHS has been looking at possibilities for years.