What is that "mate" of mine Sadiq Khan trying to achieve ?

 

You lost you demented little cretin, get over it and concentrate on your job you terrorist sympathiser.

Edited March 6, 20215 yr by Casino

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Good speech today by Starmer… no reversal on Brexit and sensible immigration policies.. I’m warming to the fella. 

Weasel words again - he would not answer a direct question "are you in favour of reducing immigration?" Danced around it - simply a ploy to secure votes from people who will swallow his guff. Once in it will be back to type - almost completely open borders other than a few token actions to convince you otherwise.

Things starting to ramp up in Ireland I see.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2022/11/20/east-wall-residents-protest-against-new-refugee-accommodation/

Edited November 23, 20223 yr by bolty58

8 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Weasel words again - he would not answer a direct question "are you in favour of reducing immigration?" Danced around it - simply a ploy to secure votes from people who will swallow his guff. Once in it will be back to type - almost completely open borders other than a few token actions to convince you otherwise.

Things starting to ramp up in Ireland I see.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2022/11/20/east-wall-residents-protest-against-new-refugee-accommodation/

Can we believe Labour on immigration that’s million dollar question, sadly the Tories have failed miserably on Immigration, they’ve 2 years to get it sorted, they are talking tough now but the evidence will be before eyes come the next election, failure to address it will result in a Labour govt. Regarding immigration into Ireland I was talking to my Irish customer and he wasn’t happy about what is happening, the level of immigration is startling, the Irish initially refused Lisbon treaty because of immigration concerns, sadly they were made to vote for it in the end and now they are exactly where they didn’t want to be. Good old EU.

Edited November 23, 20223 yr by Mounts Kipper

19 hours ago, Whitesince63 said:

Who was expecting all the benefits? Nobody expected to leave the bloc and expect no changes. What was expected was an EU who would in good faith negotiate a trade agreement that accepted both the UK’s democratic decision to leave, as contained within their own rules, yet ensured the security of the single market. Nobody, including Gove, Johnson and Farage, ever pretended that there wouldn’t be a price to pay but surely had every right to expect the EU to negotiate terms taking that into account. Instead all we have received is resistance. Every attempt at negotiation has met only with an offer that includes the U.K. accepting EU regulations, completely aware of the fact that we could not possibly agree if Brexit was to mean anything.

Their total weaponising of the NI situation and refusal to grant equivalence to the City are just further example of their petty minded stance and a further reason why it was essential we leave. You myopic, federalist Remain supporters should get your heads out of your arse and see the facts. None of the proposed benefits of Brexit have been delivered by this pathetic Parliament, instead still cow towing to the Brussels bureaucrats and until somebody has the balls to stand up and actually start delivering the country will suffer and you and your cronies will rightly be able to ask was it worth it?

You do sound very angry. 
Couple of points and 1 question. 
Do not think there is anyone other than a small minority that love the EU, turn out in European elections was usually mid 30s so hardly a love affair.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/300460/eu-parliament-turnout-for-the-european-elections-uk-and-eu/

People voted to Remain for a number of reasons as I daresay people who voted to Leave did. From a personal perspective I did so as my Pension is invested and the weight of economists opinions was that we were better off 'in'. There are a whole raft of political and emotional reasons to be 'out' and that won the day. One of the reasons Remain won the day for me no one seemed to be able to explain what 'out' actually looked like and as referenced above I had no faith in the Leave campaign leaders to deliver Brexit. Boris was at the forefront and he has been shown to be an unreliable lying bumblefuck. As you acknowledge this has proven to be true.

So to the question, people who voted to Leave have constantly asked questions what Leave looks like and there has never been a consistent answer , deal ? No deal with EU ? Trade deals with US ? But when no answer is forthcoming Leave supporters are shouted down. Who was the woman that was called a traitor for ensuring the deal had to be ratified by Parliament ? The question I have given you accuse the EU of weaponising the Irish Border is can you please explain how this can work in a way that works for Republicans, Unionists, Leavers and the GFA ? 
When goods arrive at the border coming North what checks are needed at that border and when they subsequently across over the Irish Sea what additional checks are needed ? Same for people what checks at what point ? Then the same when moving south. 
Mounts says above there will never be a border that restricts people between north and south as per the GFA. I just do not see how it can work, in away that does not cause internal UK issues. This is a genuine question as if we can make it work we can crack on but rather than blaming everyone other than ourselves for the position we are in let's start offering a solution that actually works. 
Final point on equivalence to the City. It is impossible to deliver this unless the City commits to same level of scrutiny that the EU wants to implement to counter money laundering. The UK is perceived as a Laundromat for dirty money as the article below highlights the need for better controls. With so many of our senior politicians linked financially to the City breaking this link has to be a key point of the UK meeting the required standards. But I digress let's hear about that border. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/city-london-leader-calls-tougher-reform-shed-laundromat-tag-2022-04-25/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/shamed-former-peer-takes-uk-28558242.amp
 

Labour one this time ! No shame. 

21 minutes ago, Ani said:

You do sound very angry. 
Couple of points and 1 question. 
Do not think there is anyone other than a small minority that love the EU, turn out in European elections was usually mid 30s so hardly a love affair.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/300460/eu-parliament-turnout-for-the-european-elections-uk-and-eu/

People voted to Remain for a number of reasons as I daresay people who voted to Leave did. From a personal perspective I did so as my Pension is invested and the weight of economists opinions was that we were better off 'in'. There are a whole raft of political and emotional reasons to be 'out' and that won the day. One of the reasons Remain won the day for me no one seemed to be able to explain what 'out' actually looked like and as referenced above I had no faith in the Leave campaign leaders to deliver Brexit. Boris was at the forefront and he has been shown to be an unreliable lying bumblefuck. As you acknowledge this has proven to be true.

So to the question, people who voted to Leave have constantly asked questions what Leave looks like and there has never been a consistent answer , deal ? No deal with EU ? Trade deals with US ? But when no answer is forthcoming Leave supporters are shouted down. Who was the woman that was called a traitor for ensuring the deal had to be ratified by Parliament ? The question I have given you accuse the EU of weaponising the Irish Border is can you please explain how this can work in a way that works for Republicans, Unionists, Leavers and the GFA ? 
When goods arrive at the border coming North what checks are needed at that border and when they subsequently across over the Irish Sea what additional checks are needed ? Same for people what checks at what point ? Then the same when moving south. 
Mounts says above there will never be a border that restricts people between north and south as per the GFA. I just do not see how it can work, in away that does not cause internal UK issues. This is a genuine question as if we can make it work we can crack on but rather than blaming everyone other than ourselves for the position we are in let's start offering a solution that actually works. 
Final point on equivalence to the City. It is impossible to deliver this unless the City commits to same level of scrutiny that the EU wants to implement to counter money laundering. The UK is perceived as a Laundromat for dirty money as the article below highlights the need for better controls. With so many of our senior politicians linked financially to the City breaking this link has to be a key point of the UK meeting the required standards. But I digress let's hear about that border. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/city-london-leader-calls-tougher-reform-shed-laundromat-tag-2022-04-25/

Much of the money laundering went on when we were part of the EU and under their scrutiny, are we to improve scrutiny because we left the EU or perhaps it suits EU to not offer equivalence in order to divert more trade.    

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/shamed-former-peer-takes-uk-28558242.amp
 

Labour one this time ! No shame. 

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Much of the money laundering went on when we were part of the EU and under their scrutiny, are we to improve scrutiny because we left the EU or perhaps it suits EU to not offer equivalence in order to divert more trade.    

Ok do you seriously think we want improve our scrutiny beyond the requirements of the EU? If you search for articles highlighting the issues in the City there are plenty, none that I saw saying we are or plan to be more robust than the EU. 
One absolute fact from history is that money breeds greed and corruption in the EU, in the UK, everywhere. So as one of the biggest financial centres there is bound to be more stuff going in terms of AML here than anywhere else. 
The EU has issued a number of AML directives I think 6 but as you know I am a man of leisure these days so not as affected and last job was non regulated anyway. The gist of these rules have always been really based around principles so for instance they would say ' all due checks and controls need to be in place' the definition of 'due checks and controls' was at member states discretion as was the policing so we had FSA and more recently Finance Conduct Authority. The latest directives are much more direct and defined so detail the checks and controls. 
So this why I keep saying 'equivalence' is just a word defining what is meant is the substance. Who defines the detail of checks and controls and the policing of these ? If we do this ourselves our track record is that we will be less strict so gain an advantage rather than equivalence. The very nature of the City has always been about the ability to get difficult deals done, the old boys network. It has delivered incredible value to the UK economy over the years, we do not want to lose that, but you can see why the EU have concerns.

If you want one for the conspiracy thread look at who has funded Farage for last few years and how closely their interests are tied to a less regulated market. This funding increased as the later EU Directives became more public. Old boys protecting their own interests ??

I stand to be corrected but from memory Boris's oven ready deal did not fully cover the Financial Services sector, but that may have been picked up in later discussions

Day 2,338

And still no benefits

Just saying, like.

11 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Weasel words again - he would not answer a direct question "are you in favour of reducing immigration?" Danced around it - simply a ploy to secure votes from people who will swallow his guff. Once in it will be back to type - almost completely open borders other than a few token actions to convince you otherwise.

Things starting to ramp up in Ireland I see.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2022/11/20/east-wall-residents-protest-against-new-refugee-accommodation/

Been going on for years mate, just the same as here.

I mentioned it at the start of this Brexit discussion as a risk of no borders when people were saying all migrants come via Dover etc , there’s towns full over in the west , a bus ride takes them into the UK , in fact, some could go into the Uk in some places by going to a different Tesco . 
 
 

13 minutes ago, fatolive said:

Been going on for years mate, just the same as here.

I mentioned it at the start of this Brexit discussion as a risk of no borders when people were saying all migrants come via Dover etc , there’s towns full over in the west , a bus ride takes them into the UK , in fact, some could go into the Uk in some places by going to a different Tesco . 
 
 

Nope, re-read it three times and it makes no sense whatsoever.

3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Nope, re-read it three times and it makes no sense whatsoever.

I assume he's talking about Ireland?

3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Nope, re-read it three times and it makes no sense whatsoever.

Sorry forgot to quote who I was replying to. I’ll edit it 

5 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Nope, re-read it three times and it makes no sense whatsoever.

I got if you shop in Tesco you pop out in another country. I like the sound of that. Like Mr Ben🙂

 

Edited November 23, 20223 yr by mickbrown

5 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Nope, re-read it three times and it makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Just now, fatolive said:

Sorry forgot to quote who I was replying to. I’ll edit it 

Actually I have quoted Bolty. 
the bit in bold where he says it starting in Ireland . 
 

makes sense to me anyway 🤷🏻

5 minutes ago, fatolive said:

 

Actually I have quoted Bolty. 
the bit in bold where he says it starting in Ireland . 
 

makes sense to me anyway 🤷🏻

I understood it. 

7 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

I got if you shop in Tesco you pop out in another country. I like the sound of that. Like Mr Ben🙂

 

If you go to the local Tesco in some areas, you are shopping in the UK even though you live in the EU. 
 

So you can buy UK stuff and bring it into the EU quite easily

if are an immigrant in the EU you can get into the UK quite easy if you wanted. 

that basically sums up what I was saying 

 

 

The Lion, The Witch and The Immigrant

49 minutes ago, fatolive said:

If you go to the local Tesco in some areas, you are shopping in the UK even though you live in the EU. 
 

So you can buy UK stuff and bring it into the EU quite easily

if are an immigrant in the EU you can get into the UK quite easy if you wanted. 

that basically sums up what I was saying 

 

 

And precisely why they’ll never be a hard border for people or goods. 

Edited November 23, 20223 yr by Mounts Kipper

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

And precisely why they’ll never be a hard border for people or goods. 

Indeed . Quite agree 

but also flies in the face of taking back control of the borders . 

30 minutes ago, fatolive said:

Indeed . Quite agree 

but also flies in the face of taking back control of the borders . 

Not really, that border was never going to be changed. 

1 hour ago, mickbrown said:

I got if you shop in Tesco you pop out in another country. I like the sound of that. Like Mr Ben🙂

 

If the Tesco is in the right place the entrance may be in RoI and the exit in NI.

14 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Not really, that border was never going to be changed. 

It’s now a UK border with the EU so it’s changed . 

we were told we would come out of the EU and protect our borders 

we aren’t doing/ can’t do there 

it was always the case I agree, it was mentioned on here earlier on in this thread , asking how this border would be controlled / protected given its unique nature , loads , said we could protect and control it by technology. 

Loads of immigrants from all over could literally walk into the Uk  if they chose to. 
 

granted, they’d struggle to get to Britain and if we are honest , that’s all anyone was thinking about at the time or concerned about, but the fact is people at the moment can go from the EU to the UK unhindered and there’s an uncontrolled border despite one of the reasons of leaving was to control our borders . 
 

 

Speaking of immigration.

"If I'm a 16 year old African orphan in a warzone who is being persecuted by their Government, and has a sibling legally residing in the UK. What safe and legal route is there for me to apply for asylum"

Cue Suella

 

Edited November 23, 20223 yr by kent_white

14 minutes ago, fatolive said:

It’s now a UK border with the EU so it’s changed . 

we were told we would come out of the EU and protect our borders 

we aren’t doing/ can’t do there 

it was always the case I agree, it was mentioned on here earlier on in this thread , asking how this border would be controlled / protected given its unique nature , loads , said we could protect and control it by technology. 

Loads of immigrants from all over could literally walk into the Uk  if they chose to. 
 

granted, they’d struggle to get to Britain and if we are honest , that’s all anyone was thinking about at the time or concerned about, but the fact is people at the moment can go from the EU to the UK unhindered and there’s an uncontrolled border despite one of the reasons of leaving was to control our borders . 
 

 

How has the NI/Eire border changed for normal people crossing it for everyday business from before Brexit? And how does that differ from what you expected after Brexit? We now control immigration from Europe it is no longer freedom of movement, that's one of the key reasons I voted leave, we are already seeing more jobs, less unemployment and higher wages because we have left the EU. Counter that with what has happened in Ireland more immigration, which will mean more folk looking for work, driving wages down and unemployment up. That Irelands choice and they are welcome to it.   

Just now, Mounts Kipper said:

How has the NI/Eire border changed for normal people crossing it for everyday business from before Brexit? And how does that differ from what you expected after Brexit? We now control immigration from Europe it is no longer freedom of movement, that's one of the key reasons I voted leave, we are already seeing more jobs, less unemployment and higher wages because we have left the EU. Counter that with what has happened in Ireland more immigration, which will mean more folk looking for work, driving wages down and unemployment up. That Irelands choice and they are welcome to it.   

I didn’t say it’s changed for “normal” people 

I said exactly that it wouldn’t / couldn’t change at the very start and that’s why it would be difficult. 

 

can’t get away from the fact that it is now an uncontrolled border between the EU and the UK . That’s what’s changed about it. 
 

It was never an eu border before. 
 

it’s a moot point really , it is what it is, it was mainly in response to Bolty picking up on the demo in Dublin and how the UK has an open border with a place with loads of refugees which is the opposite of what Brexit was about ( for some)