1 hour ago, Traf said:

So Blair caused ISIS to rise, but the Good Friday agreement was reached despite Blair being in power.

Let's rewrite history. 

Blair was generally an excellent PM and brown a very good Chancellor. Yes, it went to shit at the end, but that's cyclical politics for you.

A rewriting of history from a bloke who fucked off from these shores 30 odd years ago😂

1 minute ago, mickbrown said:

A rewriting of history from a bloke who fucked off from these shores 30 odd years ago😂

Blair made ISIS , now that’s Bolty back to his best.

Let’s not forget that the invasion was fully approved by the Tories at the time. They weren’t proper Tories, probably.

In fact, the party with the most MP’s voting against it was <tense pause> Labour.

2 hours ago, Traf said:

So Blair caused ISIS to rise, but the Good Friday agreement was reached despite Blair being in power.

Let's rewrite history. 

Blair was generally an excellent PM and brown a very good Chancellor. Yes, it went to shit at the end, but that's cyclical politics for you.

To do that, he'd need to understand it first.

43 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

To do that, he'd need to understand it first.

Lesson begins.

2 world wars and one World Cup.

Lesson ends.

TBF as PM Blair has to be responsible for what happened on his watch. 
 

He would have been closer to the intelligence than anyone else and his support for the action meant it went ahead , if he did not support it there would nt even have been a vote. 

UK to be one of worst performing economies this year, predicts IMF

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65240749

I'm not posting this just to make a point. But to highlight a truly world class piece of political spin from Jeremy Hunt! Some absolutely massive brazen bollocks on display here! 🤣

30 minutes ago, kent_white said:

UK to be one of worst performing economies this year, predicts IMF

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65240749

I'm not posting this just to make a point. But to highlight a truly world class piece of political spin from Jeremy Hunt! Some absolutely massive brazen bollocks on display here! 🤣

Hunt could have also pointed our growth last year was higher than euro average and more than double that of Germany. 

Anyhow the IMF seem to be a bit shit at predicting from what I’ve seen over the last couple of years. 

4 hours ago, Spider said:

Blair made ISIS , now that’s Bolty back to his best.

Let’s not forget that the invasion was fully approved by the Tories at the time. They weren’t proper Tories, probably.

In fact, the party with the most MP’s voting against it was <tense pause> Labour.

The same folk who harp on about Blair taking us to war in Iraq are the same ones who champion Maggie Thatcher for taking us to war over some barren wasteland full of puffins and penguins and sinking a ship that was sailing away from battle.

 

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

The same folk who harp on about Blair taking us to war in Iraq are the same ones who champion Maggie Thatcher for taking us to war over some barren wasteland full of puffins and penguins and sinking a ship that was sailing away from battle.

 

The Scottish independence vote?

2 hours ago, kent_white said:

UK to be one of worst performing economies this year, predicts IMF

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65240749

I'm not posting this just to make a point. But to highlight a truly world class piece of political spin from Jeremy Hunt! Some absolutely massive brazen bollocks on display here! 🤣

It's OK, we're really in the shit, just not quite in it as thought.

This is what passes for success nowadays.

I await more charts and some nonsense about predictions not being worth the paper Economist's write on.

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Hunt could have also pointed our growth last year was higher than euro average and more than double that of Germany. 

Anyhow the IMF seem to be a bit shit at predicting from what I’ve seen over the last couple of years. 

Oh, sorry - fastest finger 😁

13 hours ago, Ani said:

But Bush is a Republican so the idea it is all down to Blair and the lefties is fundamentally flawed logic. 
 

As the US were the dominant partners in the war it is actually the Republicans who are responsible for ISIS by your thinking. 

Go on then. I'll play. Exactly where did I say that?

We were discussing the tenures of Conservative and Labour governments.

Fairly certain that I said that it was down to Blair and Bush. Your imagination is running away with you again.

12 hours ago, Traf said:

So Blair caused ISIS to rise, but the Good Friday agreement was reached despite Blair being in power.

Let's rewrite history. 

Blair was generally an excellent PM and brown a very good Chancellor. Yes, it went to shit at the end, but that's cyclical politics for you.

Last sentence bang on. First line - no. The removal of Saddam Hussein created the conditions (power vacuum) for ISIS to rise. The removal of Saddam Hussein can be attribituted to Dubya and Bliar.

11 hours ago, Spider said:

Blair made ISIS , now that’s Bolty back to his best.

Let’s not forget that the invasion was fully approved by the Tories at the time. They weren’t proper Tories, probably.

In fact, the party with the most MP’s voting against it was <tense pause> Labour.

I am beginning to believe that you've all been exposed to some fucked up skunk class A or similar. Blair made ISIS? Go on then, find it and quote me. Thought not.

I see thickbrown is still possessed by the green eyed monster 

9 hours ago, Spider said:

Lesson begins.

2 world wars and one World Cup.

Lesson ends.

...and the sites superior condescending cunt still remains unchallenged.

You, on the other hand, probably need to exercise your grey matter a little more before entering the fray with little more than a lobby blocked pea shooter.

7 hours ago, gonzo said:

The same folk who harp on about Blair taking us to war in Iraq are the same ones who champion Maggie Thatcher for taking us to war over some barren wasteland full of puffins and penguins and sinking a ship that was sailing away from battle.

 

 Keep trying matey. Won't be biting on that one. Two words for you pal - mineral rights.

On 11/04/2023 at 06:43, bolty58 said:

Oh, you must be wanking on about Bliar? The man who gave the world 'weapons of mass destruction'.

He was well to the right of a lot of the socialist extremists which still dominate 'your party' as a certain Chardonnay swilling ducky might allude to it as.

Fooled the people for some of the time until the inevitable fall from grace. We can thank that cunt for the rise of Islamic State and other such extremists which Saddam, Comical Ali and the gang had previously managed to suppress for a long time.

Thank fuck nobody listened to the lying bastard on the Brexit issue.

If you want to get on to time in office over the last century or so, probably best to compare red v blue before commenting. Daylight second - thankfully.

Bolty here is you blaming Blair for everything, given your knowledge of the use of the English language you will acknowledge this is all in the singular. 
In a later post you mention Bush, which makes blaming Blair for all the above quite ironic. 
Others have highlighted that the call to go into Iraq was multi party. But I maintain as per my earlier post as PM the buck stops with Blair. The joy of not having a life time tied to one party is that you can happily accept when red or blue fuck up, rather than blindly defending them of proclaiming each new leader as the next Churchill, Thatcher , Boudicca etc etc.

To make my point very clear to avoid any twisting, the decision to invade Iraq was made by the Republican George Bush, Blair followed and both were at fault. So at a national level Blair, International Bush. 

5 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Last sentence bang on. First line - no. The removal of Saddam Hussein created the conditions (power vacuum) for ISIS to rise. The removal of Saddam Hussein can be attribituted to Dubya and Bliar.

I'm actually with you on this, to an extent. Saddam Hussein's main enemy in Iraq were Islamists. Vile as he was - he kept them under control and that control was lost when he was toppled. 

I was in favour of the war at the outset. And changed my opinion over time. 

So I wouldn't say Blair (and Bush) were directly responsible for ISIS etc. But I do agree that the power vacuum after Saddam Hussein made it easier for them. And the invasion/s also served as great propaganda for a recruitment drive amongst young people who were angry about the invasion and possibly had friends and relatives killed or injured. 

With the benefit of hindsight I think people might have made different decisions. Although I think I'm right in saying that Tony Blair has said he would still have thought toppling Saddam was the right thing to do, even if he hadn't thought Iraq had WMDs? 

Complicated one this.

5 hours ago, bolty58 said:

I am beginning to believe that you've all been exposed to some fucked up skunk class A or similar. Blair made ISIS? Go on then, find it and quote me. Thought not.

I see thickbrown is still possessed by the green eyed monster 

Oh aye. There's nothing I want more than you be you. 😭

22 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I'm actually with you on this, to an extent. Saddam Hussein's main enemy in Iraq were Islamists. Vile as he was - he kept them under control and that control was lost when he was toppled. 

I was in favour of the war at the outset. And changed my opinion over time. 

So I wouldn't say Blair (and Bush) were directly responsible for ISIS etc. But I do agree that the power vacuum after Saddam Hussein made it easier for them. And the invasion/s also served as great propaganda for a recruitment drive amongst young people who were angry about the invasion and possibly had friends and relatives killed or injured. 

With the benefit of hindsight I think people might have made different decisions. Although I think I'm right in saying that Tony Blair has said he would still have thought toppling Saddam was the right thing to do, even if he hadn't thought Iraq had WMDs? 

Complicated one this.

Aye it is complex, which is why Bolty's view is, as usual, over simplified.

Did the invasion create an opportunity for separatists groups and the rise of Shia militants? Yes. You could argue that being free from an oppressive dictatorship then a country has to find its own path.

Or you could say that it wasn't the war itself, but the lack of planning for afterwards. That Bush wanted a 'victory' for the public back home after 9/11 and therefore as soon as that was done public attention shifted and so did infrastructure building. You could argue that removing a dictator was a good thing but the lack of foresight to what comes next in an era where the whole Arab Spring had created serious instability was actually the biggest failing - not the war in and of itself. 

Anywhose - I've have found this an interesting timeline on the subject; https://www.usip.org/iraq-timeline-2003-war

And has anyone listened to the Empire podcast - seriously good listen and really filled in some of my gaps about non western (but actually related to) history.

13 hours ago, kent_white said:

UK to be one of worst performing economies this year, predicts IMF

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65240749

I'm not posting this just to make a point. But to highlight a truly world class piece of political spin from Jeremy Hunt! Some absolutely massive brazen bollocks on display here! 🤣

Lot to digest from that report. Political spin from both Hunt and Reeves. I’ll pick up on this quote.

‘The new forecasts come against the backdrop of a world economy that continues to recover from both the pandemic and the Ukraine war energy shock.’

Also, these are the figures since 2020 going forward to 28. They don’t take into account a change of government.
 

Oooh, an excel spreadsheet today.

😄

6 hours ago, bolty58 said:

...and the sites superior condescending cunt still remains unchallenged.

You, on the other hand, probably need to exercise your grey matter a little more before entering the fray with little more than a lobby blocked pea shooter.

Now, condescension. To do that properly I'd have to believe that I hold a presumed superiority in some way. In Bolty's case that's not usually that difficult with his pronouncements. 

You can only work with what ya got.

45 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Lot to digest from that report. Political spin from both Hunt and Reeves. I’ll pick up on this quote.

‘The new forecasts come against the backdrop of a world economy that continues to recover from both the pandemic and the Ukraine war energy shock.’

Also, these are the figures since 2020 going forward to 28. They don’t take into account a change of government.
 

1 hour ago, BobyBrno said:

Lot to digest from that report. Political spin from both Hunt and Reeves. I’ll pick up on this quote.

‘The new forecasts come against the backdrop of a world economy that continues to recover from both the pandemic and the Ukraine war energy shock.’

Also, these are the figures since 2020 going forward to 28. They don’t take into account a change of government.
 

Disappointed you didn’t add cumulative growth in the last column. Must do better BB. 🤣