Politics

[Mounts Kipper]

22 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I agree to a point, but that should be the EUs problem, not ours anymore, as an Island, so we could stop any of them coming here if we really wanted to. We made a big fuss about gaining control of our borders, sadly, they currently seem to be more porous than ever.

It’s a numbers game, the EU allowed FOM within their borders drastically increasing illegal immigration right across the continent, some ended up here… many more on the continent. 

[Casino]

@BobyBrnoam i reading right, under your scheme, somebody who has been earning more during his/her working life should get more of a pension than somebody who earned less

 

is that cos poor folk dont need as much to live on when theyre old?

 

[Casino]

3 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It’s a numbers game, the EU allowed FOM within their borders drastically increasing illegal immigration right across the continent, some ended up here… many more on the continent. 

can we agree theres a labour shortage in the UK?

[BobyBrno]

28 minutes ago, Casino said:

@BobyBrnoam i reading right, under your scheme, somebody who has been earning more during his/her working life should get more of a pension than somebody who earned less

 

is that cos poor folk dont need as much to live on when theyre old?

 

Not sure where the poor folk comes from. It’s based on a system similar to the final salary scheme that most pensions work on. In the NHS for instance, a doctor will have a bigger pension than say a nurse because they have earned and paid more in. It’s nothing new it’s just that it would apply to everyone, not just the public sector. 

[Mounts Kipper]

36 minutes ago, Casino said:

can we agree theres a labour shortage in the UK?

If we can get more of the 4.2% unemployed back to work perhaps that would help. 

[Mounts Kipper]

39 minutes ago, Casino said:

@BobyBrnoam i reading right, under your scheme, somebody who has been earning more during his/her working life should get more of a pension than somebody who earned less

 

is that cos poor folk dont need as much to live on when theyre old?

 

I’d be in favour of something like 75% of minimum living wage as a minimum for those who’ve put the requisite years in. The current pension does not cover anything like a decent standard of living. 

Edited August 29, 2024 by Mounts Kipper

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I’d be in favour of something like 75% of minimum living wage as a minimum for those who’ve put the requisite years in. The current pension does not cover anything like a decent standard of living. 

I think the triple lock was an attempt to push up the state pension over a long period of time, and to keep the olds on side.

 

[Spider]

9 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Not sure where the poor folk comes from. It’s based on a system similar to the final salary scheme that most pensions work on. In the NHS for instance, a doctor will have a bigger pension than say a nurse because they have earned and paid more in. It’s nothing new it’s just that it would apply to everyone, not just the public sector. 

What if someone had a fantastic, high paid job most of their life but ended up on a very modest wage by the end because they could no longer do that job (through physical demands for example)?

what about footballers who get paid a lot until they’re 40 then end up shifting timber at Axfords until they’re 65?

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

9 hours ago, BobyBrno said:

You won’t lead me down that road without a fight😊

My egalitarian proposal is that everyone has the same opportunity to enter a pension scheme on the same rules. Unlike now with the difference between the public and private sector. Gordon Brown made that even worse. Once in a scheme, If you earn and contribute more, then you get more out. That’s not tax, it’s pension contributions or an investment for the future.
If that makes me a socialist then call me Chez and pass me the Budenovka! 
 

My first company scheme was a 60th, like the LG one was. Final salary too.

The LG one changed a while back to an 80th scheme, and is now career average not final salary.

Obviously still a very good scheme, but there are some very good ones available in the private sector- wife worked for a company briefly, and they put a big whack in, as well as her own.

Clearly some are better than others, and I think folk should be more aware if what's on offer when taking a new job- not just the salary.

What is weird that there are still folk I know of that didn't bother with a pension scheme at an early age, thinking they didn't need to consider it.

[BobyBrno]

21 minutes ago, Spider said:

What if someone had a fantastic, high paid job most of their life but ended up on a very modest wage by the end because they could no longer do that job (through physical demands for example)?

what about footballers who get paid a lot until they’re 40 then end up shifting timber at Axfords until they’re 65?

 

You need to ask a pensions expert. People are over complicating my remarks. I just pointed out that we have a two tier pension provision between public and private employers. My suggestion is that everyone has the same opportunity to join the same scheme. Other countries do and have better pensions than here. 
 

[Spider]

1 minute ago, BobyBrno said:

You need to ask a pensions expert. People are over complicating my remarks. I just pointed out that we have a two tier pension provision between public and private employers. My suggestion is that everyone has the same opportunity to join the same scheme. Other countries do and have better pensions than here. 
 

Fair enough.

I thought you were saying we should all get a tiered system where higher paid folk get a better pension when they retire, and Bob the street sweeper gets peanuts even though he’s worked his fingers to the bone but was a bit dim and only really any good at sweeping.

[BobyBrno]

9 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

My first company scheme was a 60th, like the LG one was. Final salary too.

The LG one changed a while back to an 80th scheme, and is now career average not final salary.

Obviously still a very good scheme, but there are some very good ones available in the private sector- wife worked for a company briefly, and they put a big whack in, as well as her own.

Clearly some are better than others, and I think folk should be more aware if what's on offer when taking a new job- not just the salary.

What is weird that there are still folk I know of that didn't bother with a pension scheme at an early age, thinking they didn't need to consider it.

I’ve mentioned before that I was lucky that I worked for a company that instilled in us that pension payments from our salary were for our future and the earlier you start the better. Difficult for me as a young lad in his twenties with a mortgage and newly married but I was glad that I had that opportunity. It soon passes.

[BobyBrno]

7 minutes ago, Spider said:

Fair enough.

I thought you were saying we should all get a tiered system where higher paid folk get a better pension when they retire, and Bob the street sweeper gets peanuts even though he’s worked his fingers to the bone but was a bit dim and only really any good at sweeping.

If Bob works for the council then he’ll probably be on a better pension than you. (I’ve no idea what your pension provisions are) 

[Casino]

13 minutes ago, Spider said:

Fair enough.

I thought you were saying we should all get a tiered system where higher paid folk get a better pension when they retire, and Bob the street sweeper gets peanuts even though he’s worked his fingers to the bone but was a bit dim and only really any good at sweeping.

I still think that what hes saying

Seems a bit unfair really

[Ani]

The State Pension in terms of the % in provides in old age is only going to drop. Young uns starting work now should know this and provision into their old age needs to be largely self funded. With an aging population we simply need to acknowledge that the amount per head will fall.

Equally over generous public sector pensions with anything linked to final salaries are not sustainable. 
The burden is going to move from State to personal. Anyone who is currently working and not paying into a decent scheme will be fucked in their pension years, which soon will be their 70s. 

This is really not a party political issue as there is nothing that can be done to affect the change in demographics as the population gets older. Each generation in essence funds the previous generation and that leads to less funding more.

Anyone working needs to be paying into their Pension from the day they start working. 

[BobyBrno]

7 minutes ago, Casino said:

I still think that what hes saying

Seems a bit unfair really

That’s how it works though. Did you not know that in the NHS, a senior physician’s pension is significantly higher than a hospital porter? 
A hospital porters pension will be significantly higher than the state pension though. 

[ZiggyStardust]

8 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

That’s how it works though. Did you not know that in the NHS, a senior physician’s pension is significantly higher than a hospital porter? 
A hospital porters pension will be significantly higher than the state pension though. 

so, in reality, you are comparing an occupational pension with the state pension ?

Or do you think someone who has paid more tax should get a better quality of NHS care ? Or their bins should be emptied twice a week ?

 

[Casino]

12 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

That’s how it works though. Did you not know that in the NHS, a senior physician’s pension is significantly higher than a hospital porter? 
A hospital porters pension will be significantly higher than the state pension though. 

Course i know

Doesnt seem fair

Its like

 

Why does he get 10 and i get 7?

Cos hes a better player than you

Why does he get more than me in Summer?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

36 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

I’ve mentioned before that I was lucky that I worked for a company that instilled in us that pension payments from our salary were for our future and the earlier you start the better. Difficult for me as a young lad in his twenties with a mortgage and newly married but I was glad that I had that opportunity. It soon passes.

My first job post uni had such a tosser of a finance director, that after 6 months he still hadn't put me into their scheme.

I got my FA to set me up with a private pension, and complained to the MD, and requested the company paid their contributions into it.

Surprisingly, they did!

I can still see the lazy fucker of a director now- greasy hair, shirt out etc. Twat.

[Ani]

9 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

That’s how it works though. Did you not know that in the NHS, a senior physician’s pension is significantly higher than a hospital porter? 
A hospital porters pension will be significantly higher than the state pension though. 

Equally a Cleaner in the private sector whose employer has paid into a pension scheme will get significantly more than state pension. The argument has always been that public sector pay is lower and part of the reason is that the gap has been used to fund pensions.

Can argue all week about how true that is but realistically public sector pay awards need to focus on reducing the pension schemes as they are unaffordable 

[BobyBrno]

1 minute ago, ZiggyStardust said:

so, in reality, you are comparing an occupational pension with the state pension ?

Or do you think someone who has paid more tax should get a better quality of NHS care ? Or their bins should be emptied twice a week ?

 

I reality, I’m saying that the state pension needs reforming and we should be copying other countries pension schemes that are much better than ours and more closely resemble an occupational scheme. 

[BobyBrno]

2 minutes ago, Casino said:

Course i know

Doesnt seem fair

Its like

 

Why does he get 10 and i get 7?

Cos hes a better player than you

Why does he get more than me in Summer?

Do you think the porter should be paid the same as the senior physician. This has got very weird comrade. 

[Ani]

2 minutes ago, Casino said:

Course i know

Doesnt seem fair

Its like

 

Why does he get 10 and i get 7?

Cos hes a better player than you

Why does he get more than me in Summer?

The other way of looking at it is the doctor has 10% of their salary paid into a pension which creates their 'pot' and the cleaner does the same. The doctor ends up with more.

By paying in you get the basic level of pension, pay in more, get more 

The linking of State Pension to NI rather than tax makes it more confusing 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Just now, BobyBrno said:

I reality, I’m saying that the state pension needs reforming and we should be copying other countries pension schemes that are much better than ours and more closely resemble an occupational scheme. 

Makes sense.

I heard a discussion along these lines a while back- how would they go about introducingtit though?

Given your payments fund the current state pensioners, if that was then transferred into a pot for the individual, then there would be a funding hole until those in the new scheme retired.

Suppose they would have to borrow, until these new retirees stopped needing a state pension, and gradually pay it back.

 

[Casino]

4 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Do you think the porter should be paid the same as the senior physician. This has got very weird comrade. 

In the summer, yes

Why not