1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

If we can get more of the 4.2% unemployed back to work perhaps that would help. 

Good luck with that

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Makes sense.

I heard a discussion along these lines a while back- how would they go about introducingtit though?

Given your payments fund the current state pensioners, if that was then transferred into a pot for the individual, then there would be a funding hole until those in the new scheme retired.

Suppose they would have to borrow, until these new retirees stopped needing a state pension, and gradually pay it back.

 

Funding is in terms of the scheme is not the issue, as the amount people get in the medium term does not increase so for next 10-15 years the state pension rises as it does by inflation. 
 

You will have a nominal pot that shows projected future value as people move to a newer scheme. The actual working of a scheme would be incredibly complicated, but in simple terms people will be having to pay more in as that is the only way you have more to pay out. Stakeholder pensions have already started this. You will basically have your basic pot but you will need to top up.

44 minutes ago, Ani said:

Funding is in terms of the scheme is not the issue, as the amount people get in the medium term does not increase so for next 10-15 years the state pension rises as it does by inflation. 
 

You will have a nominal pot that shows projected future value as people move to a newer scheme. The actual working of a scheme would be incredibly complicated, but in simple terms people will be having to pay more in as that is the only way you have more to pay out. Stakeholder pensions have already started this. You will basically have your basic pot but you will need to top up.

I think I've got my head round that!

I'll give a simple example, if you can go through it again for me in simpler terms I'd be grateful. 

If, as of say Arpil next year, all tax from a worker that would normally go towards their state pension (albeit actually funding the current recipients) is switched to a personal scheme to be claimed at retirement.

That money is then lost from funding current recipients, so would need to be found elsewhere, until they've all gone.

 

 

8 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It has everything to do with immigrants landing on Europe’s shores and just walking wherever they want through Europe because freedom of movement has relaxed border controls. That’s what’s happened and it’s embolden millions to try it. 

It really doesn’t! It has literally nothing at all to do with it. 

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

If we can get more of the 4.2% unemployed back to work perhaps that would help. 

Funniest thing I've read on here in 25 years.

15 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I think I've got my head round that!

I'll give a simple example, if you can go through it again for me in simpler terms I'd be grateful. 

If, as of say Arpil next year, all tax from a worker that would normally go towards their state pension (albeit actually funding the current recipients) is switched to a personal scheme to be claimed at retirement.

That money is then lost from funding current recipients, so would need to be found elsewhere, until they've all gone.

 

 

Yes, but the money in the future pots is wooden dollars, ie it can not be withdrawn untill people reach retirement age, so in essence the funding is a record rather than cash. It is a liability as the Govt has always carried on future pensions. 
 

So in the next 12 months the Govt has £100M pensions to pay out, they fund this in terms of cash from this years tax income. 
 

The thing to remember there is only more money to pay out if more money is paid in, if everyone also took private pension schemes it would have the same impact. You are basically making the voluntary element of AVCs less voluntary 

Edited August 29, 20241 yr by Ani

34 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

It really doesn’t! It has literally nothing at all to do with it. 

Clueless fella. 

34 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Funniest thing I've read on here in 25 years.

Pull the benefits if they won’t work. It’s not rocket science. 

1 hour ago, Casino said:

Course i know

Doesnt seem fair

Its like

 

Why does he get 10 and i get 7?

Cos hes a better player than you

Why does he get more than me in Summer?

Is it fair on the person that's paid more every month for years .... to receive the same to someone that has payed less? 

Why is that fair?

26 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

Is it fair on the person that's paid more every month for years .... to receive the same to someone that has payed less? 

Why is that fair?

Ill answer that with the question asked above

Is it fair im only getting my bin emptied as as often as fred in scrotesville who has never done a days graft?

 

If you think its reet that mr thicko who never earned very much but grafted his cock off gets paid less than somebody sat on 5 million quid, you crack on

Lets just hope you dont arrive at the hospital at the same time as a rich bloke

28 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Pull the benefits if they won’t work. It’s not rocket science. 

Its clearly beyond you

Then they go thieving

Their kids grow up to be thieves

We spend fortunes on locking em up

In between, they attack coppers and burn mosques down cos all their problems are due to immigration

17 minutes ago, Casino said:

Its clearly beyond you

Then they go thieving

Their kids grow up to be thieves

We spend fortunes on locking em up

In between, they attack coppers and burn mosques down cos all their problems are due to immigration

All our problems aren’t down to immigration.., but it’s high on a list of things that need sorting.., like feral white kids from white non working benefit cheating families… both problems need sorting, sort out illegal immigration, get the feral non working families back to work and  start with pulling benefits for these lazy feral families, and there would be less need for immigrants to fill these jobs. 

Edited August 29, 20241 yr by Mounts Kipper
And I’m not against immigration, just illegal and the high levels we’ve experienced recently.

28 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

 get the feral non working families back to work and  start with pulling benefits for these lazy feral families, and there would be less need for immigrants to fill these jobs. 

Well, yes

And no

 

Pulling benefits, imo, diesnt work and ive explained why i think that, above

Also

In your numbers, many wont be

1 fit to work....do you know how long it takes to get your body fixed

2 suitable for many of the vacancies...i dont think we want simple simon from great lever looking after our vulnerable relatives, do we

57 minutes ago, Casino said:

Ill answer that with the question asked above

Is it fair im only getting my bin emptied as as often as fred in scrotesville who has never done a days graft?

 

If you think its reet that mr thicko who never earned very much but grafted his cock off gets paid less than somebody sat on 5 million quid, you crack on

Lets just hope you dont arrive at the hospital at the same time as a rich bloke

But you do accept that people can choose to pay more in and get more out ? 
 

If Pension Companies can make £bns from this why not do the same with a State Pension pot ? You have money taken out of your salary that gets you the minimum pension but people can pay more in and get a bigger pension. The issue with this at the moment is that Pension is linked to NI and once you get to a certain level you are 'qualified' for max pension but keep paying in as it also pays for other things. So need to make sure that still works. 
 

I have basically just nationalised the pension industry. 

5 minutes ago, Ani said:

But you do accept that people can choose to pay more in and get more out ? 
 

I can see both sides

But id prefer the poorer pensioners to get more and if that means the richest getting less, so be it

In an ideal world

Which is about as simplistic as thinking cutting benefits will solve the labour shortage

2 hours ago, Casino said:

I can see both sides

But id prefer the poorer pensioners to get more and if that means the richest getting less, so be it

In an ideal world

Which is about as simplistic as thinking cutting benefits will solve the labour shortage

Nothing is simplistic and you have to start somewhere, folk who won’t work cut their benefits, some folk will be forced back into work, whatever job that might be, it won’t solve a shortage of brain surgeons however we can select those from managed immigration, not sure what your beef is with the idea that mass illegal immigration is wrong and unsustainable,  as every time it’s mentioned as a problem and needs stopping you go on the defensive. 

Edited August 30, 20241 yr by Mounts Kipper

9 hours ago, BobyBrno said:

You need to ask a pensions expert. People are over complicating my remarks. I just pointed out that we have a two tier pension provision between public and private employers. My suggestion is that everyone has the same opportunity to join the same scheme. Other countries do and have better pensions than here. 
 

I know your son lives in Oz so I don't know if you're basing your thinking on here.

Compulsory superannuation (private pensions) have been in force here for nearly 30 years although the scheme been in place over 40 years. Compulsory contributions by employer to a scheme, initially I think it was 3% employer 3% employee but now it's 11.5% employer, soon to be 12%. All jobs, temporary permanent contracting etc. 

People on modest incomes for 40 years have easily acquired 7 figure pots. But the state pension here is means tested.

Result is the "millstone" of pensions on the country is much less. When combined with the astronomical rises in property prices, boomers are usually minted. 

5 hours ago, Ani said:

But you do accept that people can choose to pay more in and get more out ? 
 

If Pension Companies can make £bns from this why not do the same with a State Pension pot ? You have money taken out of your salary that gets you the minimum pension but people can pay more in and get a bigger pension. The issue with this at the moment is that Pension is linked to NI and once you get to a certain level you are 'qualified' for max pension but keep paying in as it also pays for other things. So need to make sure that still works. 
 

I have basically just nationalised the pension industry. 

Surely no one can be against this? 

7 hours ago, Casino said:

Well, yes

And no

 

Pulling benefits, imo, diesnt work and ive explained why i think that, above

Also

In your numbers, many wont be

1 fit to work....do you know how long it takes to get your body fixed

2 suitable for many of the vacancies...i dont think we want simple simon from great lever looking after our vulnerable relatives, do we

i know a nice Family 

neather of them work 

4 kids 

nice car  all have nice phones that's 5 

and 2/3 holidays a year 

so to pay for 

HOUSE       All - Bills-   food - car -  holidays 

how much must that cost a year 

just one Family 

 

 

 

43 minutes ago, little whitt said:

i know a nice Family 

neather of them work 

4 kids 

nice car  all have nice phones that's 5 

and 2/3 holidays a year 

so to pay for 

HOUSE       All - Bills-   food - car -  holidays 

how much must that cost a year 

just one Family 

 

 

 

Had the convo on here loads before. I work in areas where more people are like this than not. Not just feral drug addicts either.  

Normal looking families with cars, nice telly's and presentable houses yet none of them work.

The welfare state monster is beyond repair. 

You're just not going to get seasoned PIP or UC exploiters down to the nearest hospital for a shift night portering or changing beds in a hotel.

This is why we had an influx of EU economic migrants when it was worth their salt coming. 

Now it's not worth their salt coming so theres a big fuck off void left. 

 

55 minutes ago, little whitt said:

i know a nice Family 

neather of them work 

4 kids 

nice car  all have nice phones that's 5 

and 2/3 holidays a year 

so to pay for 

HOUSE       All - Bills-   food - car -  holidays 

how much must that cost a year 

just one Family 

 

 

 

Don't know but @Casino thinks they should receive the same pension as you on top of all that.

59 minutes ago, little whitt said:

i know a nice Family 

neather of them work 

4 kids 

nice car  all have nice phones that's 5 

and 2/3 holidays a year 

so to pay for 

HOUSE       All - Bills-   food - car -  holidays 

how much must that cost a year 

just one Family 

 

 

 

The majority on here know of a few families like this, those that don’t think it’s a myth. 

 

Every day an ex Tory MP posts something on Twitter that reminds you how fucking stupid they were in the end. This the ex Minister for CommonSense comparing a proposed ban on smoking in pub gardens to the Holocaust. 

 

2 hours ago, jayjayoghani said:

I know your son lives in Oz so I don't know if you're basing your thinking on here.

Compulsory superannuation (private pensions) have been in force here for nearly 30 years although the scheme been in place over 40 years. Compulsory contributions by employer to a scheme, initially I think it was 3% employer 3% employee but now it's 11.5% employer, soon to be 12%. All jobs, temporary permanent contracting etc. 

People on modest incomes for 40 years have easily acquired 7 figure pots. But the state pension here is means tested.

Result is the "millstone" of pensions on the country is much less. When combined with the astronomical rises in property prices, boomers are usually minted. 

Partly yes but I was aware of how other countries handle pensions before he went to Oz. In fact I referred to the French scheme and others have mentioned other European countries. I’ve also mentioned in the past the way we fund our health service and again, others, including Oz, seem to do it much better. 

9 minutes ago, royal white said:

The majority on here know of a few families like this, those that don’t think it’s a myth. 

I honestly do not know anyone like this. Trust as others are saying they do that they exist. 
 

My partner got pensioned off work for ill health about 10 years ago and I went to her PIP interview (think it was called PIP at the time). The questions were as basic as can you get yourself up and walk downstairs , she said yes, so could not get anything. Her work had said she could not do her job and a big multi national organisation did not have any suitable alternative so they pensioned her off. Went from £30k plus salary to £1k per month. People knowing how to play the system destroy it for people who need the system.