What is that "mate" of mine Sadiq Khan trying to achieve ?

 

You lost you demented little cretin, get over it and concentrate on your job you terrorist sympathiser.

Something like that.

Maybe it is so bureaucratic that it does do what it says it will.

Rather than the UK Government that lies in its manifesto at every election.

Is Schengen a disaster? I’m not sure that’s at all true is it

 

Many would argue that the Euro isn’t a ‘disaster’ either, it’s certainly been a lot stronger than the pound over the past 18 months so the markets would disagree with you for a start

 

 

I work for an Italian company and visit reasonably regularly. Also have wife's family there and many friends built up over the years.

 

Yet to find an Italian still living in Italy who does not think the Euro is a disaster and would take lira back in an instant.

I thought your view was it was going to be better ?

 

Are you now saying we do not know either way ?

 

 

And doing an economic impact is pointless.

 

I remain unconvinced.

 

 

No one can predict future events, but I prefer to trust in our countries ability to survive and thrive on our own 2 feet.

I work for an Italian company and visit reasonably regularly. Also have wife's family there and many friends built up over the years.

 

Yet to find an Italian still living in Italy who does not think the Euro is a disaster and would take lira back in an instant.

You wonder if they would be far behind?

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/05/europe/italy-referendum-whats-next/index.html

Excelllent post. Can you also clarify not which side you support but also which side has the strongest hand in the negotiations

All this strong hands business is bollocks. Its the end agreement that matters.

 

moonboys post highlights the very point that seems to be ignored. She's in a difficult situation trying to satisfy the demands of several parties on a variety of issues.

It must be a bloody difficult job, and at times the press seem to have an agenda around wanting to see the negotiations fail.

Andrew Neil and charlie stait this morning were questioning MPs in a manner resembling children bickering in a playground. Which bit of not revealing too much outside of the negotiations don't they understand?

 

I'm sure they wouldn't have their contract negotiations done in public or reveal what they would settle for thrown out there for all to see.

All this strong hands business is bollocks. Its the end agreement that matters.

 

moonboys post highlights the very point that seems to be ignored. She's in a difficult situation trying to satisfy the demands of several parties on a variety of issues.

It must be a bloody difficult job, and at times the press seem to have an agenda around wanting to see the negotiations fail.

Andrew Neil and charlie stait this morning were questioning MPs in a manner resembling children bickering in a playground. Which bit of not revealing too much outside of the negotiations don't they understand?

 

I'm sure they wouldn't have their contract negotiations done in public or reveal what they would settle for thrown out there for all to see.

I would say it’s an impossible job

 

The apparent red lines include no hard boarder in Ireland, no different rules for NI vs the rest of the UK and the UK leaving the EU customs union

 

So unless the ROI decide to leave the EU, change currency and join a customs union with the UK (which isn’t going to happen anytime soon) then at least one of her red lines needs to go

 

Even walking away from negotiations is impossible without breaking a red line (hard boarder in Ireland)

 

Which red line will go though, that’s the question!

Edited December 7, 20178 yr by birch-chorley

You may be right- though I wouldn't use the term "impossible".

Whichever red lines are crossed (or have large paunches in them) something will be sorted.

Im in no position to know for sure, but I'd hazard a guess that EU countries are not constantly on the backs of those negotiating on their behalf in the way in which our lot are.

 

No doubt when a deal is done, some won't be happy, but that's the way of it- we'll have to get on with it and in time then make an assessment of whether it was a wise move.

You may be right- though I wouldn't use the term "impossible".

Whichever red lines are crossed (or have large paunches in them) something will be sorted.

Im in no position to know for sure, but I'd hazard a guess that EU countries are not constantly on the backs of those negotiating on their behalf in the way in which our lot are.

 

No doubt when a deal is done, some won't be happy, but that's the way of it- we'll have to get on with it and in time then make an assessment of whether it was a wise move.

 

 

I also do not think it is impossible there must be examples of this type of scenario already working elsewhere, if there is no tariff agreement for goods between UK and EU then there is no need for a hard border is there?  In that case this should be parked until the trade deal is agreed then re-visited at that stage, of course it might be the EU have engineered it this way to create as much mischief as possible, who would have thought that of our closest allies and supposed friends.   

Edited December 7, 20178 yr by Mounts Kipper

Ok then, humour me

 

How can you get passed the Ireland situation without breaking on of TM’s own ‘red lines’?

 

In good enough time to crack on with trade talks any way, let’s say this decade

Ok then, humour me

 

How can you get passed the Ireland situation without breaking on of TM’s own ‘red lines’?

 

In good enough time to crack on with trade talks any way, let’s say this decade

 

 

See above post.

Edited December 7, 20178 yr by Mounts Kipper

See above post.

To avoid a hard boarder between NI and ROI they need to be in the same customs union

 

The DUP won’t allow NI to be in a different customs union than the UK, TM has confirmed that this is a red line

 

So the UK would need to be in a customs union with the ROI, which in turn means the rest of the EU as well

 

If we are in a customs union with the EU then we can’t negotiate our own trade deals, another red line

 

It’s a stalemate until TM decides which red line she’s going to get rid of, I.e who is she going to piss off, the DUP or hardline Brexiteers in her own party (See the comments from Jacob Reece Mogg during yesterday’s PMQ’s around pink lines)

 

Either way she loses votes from her own coalition and her ability to get the final deal through Parliament

Edited December 7, 20178 yr by birch-chorley

Is Schengen a disaster? I’m not sure that’s at all true is it

 

Many would argue that the Euro isn’t a ‘disaster’ either, it’s certainly been a lot stronger than the pound over the past 18 months so the markets would disagree with you for a start

Both Schengen and the Euro are examples of how Germany drives the European bus, something that is only going to gather pace with our exit and the federalist Macron in power in France.

 

The Euro nearly crashed following the last economic shock and big economies like Italy's aren't out of the woods yet. It's performance versus Sterling on the currency exchanges in the 18 months since the Brexit vote is a red herring which I am sure you are aware of.

Both Schengen and the Euro are examples of how Germany drives the European bus, something that is only going to gather pace with our exit and the federalist Macron in power in France.

 

The Euro nearly crashed following the last economic shock and big economies like Italy's aren't out of the woods yet. It's performance versus Sterling on the currency exchanges in the 18 months since the Brexit vote is a red herring which I am sure you are aware of.

Still, I think describing them as ‘a disaster’ is well wide if the mark

 

The Euro thing has been done to death but your right it does have some major limitations for the Southern European countries with weaker economies. Would they have been better off with their own currency though, I’m not so sure. The Italian and Spanish currencies were never sound propositions themselves over the years

 

With regards Schengen, I see very little down side. Granted the Daily Mail will have people believe that Muslims are roaming wild across an unchecked Europe waiting to kill us all but as we know this is over inflated bollocks

 

P.s I’m not sure how Germany has benefited from Schengen more so than any other country for it to be used as an example of how Germany is driving the European bus?

Edited December 7, 20178 yr by birch-chorley

I see the German SDP are calling for a United States of Europe by 2025.

 

Their leader is odds on to form a coalition govt with Merkel.

 

Capital city of Berlin.

 

Now where have we heard this type of idea before......

Both Schengen and the Euro are examples of how Germany drives the European bus

 

How so? - I'm not saying that you're wrong, but how have those two things it benefited Germany and nobody else in Europe?

How so? - I'm not saying that you're wrong, but how have those two things it benefited Germany and nobody else in Europe?

 

The Euro helps the Germans sell there products more competitively if they were still using the Mark they would be less competitive.

I see the German SDP are calling for a United States of Europe by 2025.

 

Their leader is odds on to form a coalition govt with Merkel.

 

Capital city of Berlin.

 

Now where have we heard this type of idea before......

I’m not sure we have heard this before have we?

 

If your alluding to Hitler then that was so far from a United States of Europe

 

Besides surely the capitol would be Brussels or even Strasbourg?

 

All this ‘The Germans are trying to take over Europe again’ is a bit tedious

The Euro helps the Germans sell there products more competitively if they were still using the Mark they would be less competitive.

Likewise it means they have a weaker currency when it comes to buying raw materials on the global market, meaning it costs their businesses more than it would do with their own currency

 

Two sides to the coin as we well know following the fall of the pound

Likewise it means they have a weaker currency when it comes to buying raw materials on the global market,

 

That was my first thought......swings and roundabouts innit

 

Some were happy when Sterling dipped after the referendum, as it was great for exports.......some of these people didn't realise it would also affect the cost of incoming goods, which I guess is now coming through via inflation.

 

Was there not also some dick on here who said the currency drop was just a seasonal thing as well 

Think he meant every 8 decades

I’m not sure we have heard this before have we?

 

If your alluding to Hitler then that was so far from a United States of Europe

 

Besides surely the capitol would be Brussels or even Strasbourg?

 

All this ‘The Germans are trying to take over Europe again’ is a bit tedious

 

I was not alluding to Hitler

 

I was alluding to the fact that these grand ideas tend to come from the Germans every few years.

 

Eventually, they'll get what they want if they time it right.

 

Hitler wasn't honestly in my mind. It's interesting he was in yours.

How so? - I'm not saying that you're wrong, but how have those two things it benefited Germany and nobody else in Europe?

Cheaper exports and young people for an aging population. Nowhere have I claimed Germany was the sole beneficiary of this.

Cheaper exports and young people for an aging population. Nowhere have I claimed Germany was the sole beneficiary of this.

It came across (to me anyway) that you were of the impression that Germany has benefited a great deal more from Schengen and the Euro than the other members

 

With regards Germany’s aging population crisis, they have been in Schengen for years and this has got steadily worse. That would indicate its not been the huge benefit to Germany than your making out.

 

Besides even if Germany was not in Schengen they could just give young immigrants Visa’s to work their if they wanted too! The fact is young Europeans don’t really want to move to Germany, partly because of language barriers I would assume

I was not alluding to Hitler

 

I was alluding to the fact that these grand ideas tend to come from the Germans every few years.

 

Eventually, they'll get what they want if they time it right.

 

Hitler wasn't honestly in my mind. It's interesting he was in yours.

I assumed you were alluding to Hitler based on the number of posts on this very thread that make out the EU is just another way for the Germans to take over Europe, with the war being mentioned on numerous occasions

 

In all honesty I’ve never previously seen any suggestion come out of senior sources within Germany that we should form a United States of Europe in the mould of the USA with Berlin as the capitol City

 

The idea seems completely bizarre to me

In all honesty I’ve never previously seen any suggestion come out of senior sources within Germany that we should form a United States of Europe in the mould of the USA with Berlin as the capitol City

 

The idea seems completely bizarre to me

 

That's because you haven't been wearing your tinfoil hat...