Take Over

[lowcarbon]

so where has this £13.6m gone?  Ken's back pocket? or a Dubai holiday?

[Howardroark]

1 minute ago, Chris Custodiet said:

If that money is not recoverable there is something seriously amiss and there's still another £13m presently unexplained.

I'm not trying to score points, Howard, I'm just trying to reconcile the facts and see if there is some misunderstanding. Some folk on here are pointing the finger at the club's auditors and that's just not on unless based on fact, which I rather doubt it is

It is not anything to do with the auditors, entirely blameless in this.

[Biggish Dave]

So the only thing we know for certain is bastardchops won't be too skint to keep going to Dubai once this is all over - doesn't matter to him whether there is still a football club in Bolton

[Howardroark]

2 minutes ago, sleepingindian said:

if all this happens will youre guys be owners aor part owners or someone els or still be for sale

We would retain the right to convert the debt in to equity. We wouldn't be owners, we would be loaning the club secured funds.

[Wigan White pt2]

I'm not getting this at all, surely this additional £26.6m loss hasn't just arose this week, so then why would Howards lot (who had made an offer and so called done due diligence) be now stating the terms of the deal had been misleading to think they would initally share the loss but now are shocked to find they would have to cover this themselves. Surely all this would've come out in the due diligence and bidding talks? Also did they not know this last week when they were about to recall the shares from KA last Tuesday before the got his 7day extension????

Something smells fishy to me 🐟🐟🐟

Just throwing this out there and not making assumptions that people are bullshitting but it does seem a bit odd.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Wigan White pt2

[Wanderlust]

1 minute ago, Howardroark said:

 

ICI used its assets (transfer fees and EFL payments of BWFC-Burnden Leisure) to raise funds from a factoring company. 

Factoring company should've been paid directly by the payer (Football clubs and EFL) however they couldn't do that as it would result in an embargo so the money was paid to the club. The club did not pay the factoring company. 

ICI recorded the income as a loan between itself and Burnden Leisure.

 

 

So is this a legitimate Anderson investment in BWFC that needs to be repaid? I don't understand how e.g. transfer fees would be an ICI asset in the first place - surely they were a BL asset?

[Sluffy]

3 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

This just isn't making sense at the moment but Howard's lot did seem to be the best hope we had.

Doesn't make sense to me either. 

I understood from what H had said earlier that the £13.3m (or thereabouts) was compiled of the £8m debt bought off Moonshift and £5.5m factored payments comprised of EFL and transfer fees and therefore received in advance of the dates they are scheduled to be paid.

If that is the case then it would seem to me that if Dark Horse took on the club and nothing was forthcoming from Anderson then they have lost their £8m in buying the share ownership debt (H hinted that the debt might have been discounted to around £5m to buy) and the £5.3m that was 'resting' in ICI's bank but not 'yet' put into the club - that will be needed for ongoing payments/wages of the club (and so which needs to be paid) as well as settling the debt to the factoring companies of the £5.3m.

Ignoring that probably half a million probably came out of the £5.3m to pay the Feb wages (remember the bit about 'no one loves me but I'm still paying the players wages out of my own pocket') and the possible/probable £3m discount on buying the share debt, this would amount to £18.6m.

Still a vast amount of money to find/fund though - but it does raise a question over the £26.6m H mentions.

If there is £18.6m to find (maybe a little lower at £15m if there was payment of wages and a discount of the share debt involved) then debt 'black hole' would have increased but by only around £5.3m at most or perhaps as 'little' (which of course is a subjective term) of around £1.7m.

If Dark Horse was prepared to do a deal at around the £13.3m mark (allowing for some of the money to be written off/paid on achievement of success) then I guess the additional sum of £5.3m would be a step too far for them - which is their choice obviously.

H also correctly mentions that EFL payments have also been brought forward to pay some of the current debts - and thus are no longer available to go towards future running costs as no doubt intended for.

Of course the opposite side of the story is has the £13.3m received by Anderson gone into the club?

It would seem Eddies £8m had (ok Anderson has secured himself against it at the club - so he should be able to pay it back to Moonshift/Dark Horse) but a question remains as to what has happened to the alleged £5.3m 'resting' in ICI's bank account?

That's how I interpret what H has said today.

[Chris Custodiet]

Just now, Howardroark said:

It is not anything to do with the auditors, entirely blameless in this.

Thanks Howard. From what I have seen Burnden Leisure and BWFC have been well served by both its present and previous auditors. Something I am afraid that could not  be said in relation to some other accounts that have caught my attention in recent years.

[Howardroark]

1 minute ago, Wigan White pt2 said:

I'm not getting this at all, surely this additional £26.6m loss hasn't just arose this week, so then why would Howards lot (who had made an offer and so called done due diligence) be now stating the terms of the deal had been misleading to think they would initally share the loss but now are shocked to find they would have to cover this themselves. Surely all this would've come out in the due diligence and bidding talks? Also did they not know this last week when they were about to recall the shares from KA last Tuesday before the got his 7day extension????

Something smells fishy to me 🐟🐟🐟

Just throwing this out there and not making assumptions that people are bullshitting but it does seem a bit odd.

I won't comment on the smell for fear of you taking offence; 

Due Diligence showed a £13.3M loan from BL to ICI. We were told that this would be repaid, this was a consistent message. We are now told that this is not the case and that recalling the shares will trigger a CVA at ICI, ICI having zero assets.

[lowcarbon]

Howard, thanks for all these replies, just made my headache so much severe. 

[sleepingindian]

when could we expect to see some movement on all this 

[DLH]

4 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

No, 

ICI used its assets (transfer fees and EFL payments of BWFC-Burnden Leisure) to raise funds from a factoring company. 

Factoring company should've been paid directly by the payer (Football clubs and EFL) however they couldn't do that as it would result in an embargo so the money was paid to the club. The club did not pay the factoring company. 

ICI recorded the income as a loan between itself and Burnden Leisure.

 

So KA entered into a contract with the Factoring Companies through Burnden Leisure?

The Cash came in, Burnden Leisure lend it to ICI and then it disappeared... and KA will liquidate ICI for his £10 (Spongebob price)

But (much akin to Mr Bassini), I'm assuming he didn't get EFL approval for this so maybe looking at a 3 year ban if it comes out in the wash? 

[Steejay]

FFS, IT'S NOT AN ADDITIONAL £26.6M.

IT'S £13.3M BUT THAT IS £13.3M LESS FOR FUNDING GOING FORWARDS...SO IT'S AN ADDITIONAL £26.6M TO THE ORIGINAL SUMS.

[Wanderlust]

So BL (Anderson) "loaned" ICI (Anderson) the money that the club received from the EFL and from transfers and now that is not likely to be recoverable?

Is this not asset-stripping?

[ProfessorWoland]

3 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

I won't comment on the smell for fear of you taking offence; 

Due Diligence showed a £13.3M loan from BL to ICI. We were told that this would be repaid, this was a consistent message. We are now told that this is not the case and that recalling the shares will trigger a CVA at ICI, ICI having zero assets.

😧 Fucking hell

[Mounts Kipper]

6 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

I won't comment on the smell for fear of you taking offence; 

Due Diligence showed a £13.3M loan from BL to ICI. We were told that this would be repaid, this was a consistent message. We are now told that this is not the case and that recalling the shares will trigger a CVA at ICI, ICI having zero assets.

Sounds like this is Kens plan to stop moonshift from disposing the shares to your consortium, am i correct in that assumption?   If so the cost of regaining Moonshift shares is not 5 million but 18.3 million ? 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Tonge moor green jacket]

In a round about way, am I right in thinking that this unrecoverable 13 million or so has been snaffled?

Not sure about SpongeBob, but dangermous's sidekick springs to mind:

"Cor DM!"

[Wigan White pt2]

5 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

I won't comment on the smell for fear of you taking offence; 

Due Diligence showed a £13.3M loan from BL to ICI. We were told that this would be repaid, this was a consistent message. We are now told that this is not the case and that recalling the shares will trigger a CVA at ICI, ICI having zero assets.

No offence would be taken as I'm not a 5yr old child. Just trying to figure out what the fuck is going on to my club.

You say you were given a consistent message that the £13.3m would be repaid but by who? If it was KA then the premise that you would recall his shares as he would be defaulting on the debt to Moonshift,  then why would you then take his word that he'd pay the £13.3m debt???

[Razaldo9]

@Howardroark Initially you had a bid with KA, could that not be brought to the table to find a lower cost compromise? Sounds like he will make it as costly as possible to take the shares, but you could potentially reduce the payment to him in accordance? He's got to be losing faith in Bassini.

[lowcarbon]

At this stage, I am going with Bullshit,  until there is some visible evidence. 

[auckland_bwfc]

@Howardroark Roarkster, last week you suggested you expected Bassini to complete, any idea why this didn't pan out, and, whats your thoughts on it now?

[Howardroark]

23 minutes ago, DLH said:

So KA entered into a contract with the Factoring Companies through Burnden Leisure?

The Cash came in, Burnden Leisure lend it to ICI and then it disappeared... and KA will liquidate ICI for his £10 (Spongebob price)

But (much akin to Mr Bassini), I'm assuming he didn't get EFL approval for this so maybe looking at a 3 year ban if it comes out in the wash? 

Yes!

[Howardroark]

Just now, auckland_bwfc said:

@Howardroark Roarkster, last week you suggested you expected Bassini to complete, any idea why this didn't pan out, and, whats your thoughts on it now?

I expected him to complete because we were going to loan him the funds, he failed to provide the security (property).

[John Galt]

This is a dangerous path you are taking Mr Roark, are you aware of the defamation law reforms that took effect in 2014?

[Howardroark]

22 minutes ago, Hoppy510 said:

So BL (Anderson) "loaned" ICI (Anderson) the money that the club received from the EFL and from transfers and now that is not likely to be recoverable?

Is this not asset-stripping?

Yes to a certain extent