wakey Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Sluffy said: Voluntary liquidation I would think is an option too. https://www.companyrescue.co.uk/guides-knowledge/guides/what-is-the-difference-between-voluntary-liquidation-and-compulsory-liquidation-4065/ why would Ken choose liquidation? You do realise this means bust? like proper bust? it'll be admin first, then liquidation if nobody comes in to buy us. (or preferably sale beforehand)
Kane57 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Posted February 10, 2019 So, Ken can walk away from a liquidated Inner Circle (& lose his BWFC shares) but can then call in his personal loan against BWFC thus liquidating the club & enabling Ken to walk away making £5m. Hence him being a secured creditor. That way, Moonshift lose out on £5m because all they get are worthless BWFC shares.
Mounts Kipper Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Kane57 said: So, Ken can walk away from a liquidated Inner Circle (& lose his BWFC shares) but can then call in his personal loan against BWFC thus liquidating the club & enabling Ken to walk away making £5m. Hence him being a secured creditor. That way, Moonshift lose out on £5m because all they get are worthless BWFC shares. How’s he gonna get anywhere near 5 million back when there is a raft of other creditors? What’s the value of the clubs assets?
Kane57 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Posted February 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: How’s he gonna get anywhere near 5 million back when there is a raft of other creditors? What’s the value of the clubs assets? Dunno it just struck me whilst I was eating a pack of cheese and onion discos
Biggish Dave Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 Looks like Sweaty has run out of time and can’t afford to piss about with any potential buyers now. This time next year, we’ll be millionaires
Guest Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 16 minutes ago, Kane57 said: Dunno it just struck me whilst I was eating a pack of cheese and onion discos Disgusting; yuk!
Guest Nordkurve Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 21 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: How’s he gonna get anywhere near 5 million back when there is a raft of other creditors? What’s the value of the clubs assets? I suppose it depends if the Stadium is classed as an asset, and if so, how much it is worth. I would imagine it is worth a lot more than 5 million if you consider the value of all the shit that is inside it (I don't mean the team every other saturday) like equipment, furnishings, cans of Boddingtons in the executive boxes etc.
Wullie Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 I don't think he would get any money back, he owes £5m to ED'd family (due to be paid back Feb/Mar???), he owes money to Warbies and money to the other guy (I forget his name).
Sluffy Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 19 minutes ago, wakey said: why would Ken choose liquidation? You do realise this means bust? like proper bust? it'll be admin first, then liquidation if nobody comes in to buy us. (or preferably sale beforehand) Yes I do realise that and it will probably not come to that but it is an option - and one that no doubt KA has considered. At the end of the day it seems like there is something like £25 million in charges set against the club assets. It now looks that the club is probably got to the point that it is trading whilst insolvent(?) It looks like a sale is not on the cards unless the buyer takes on the current debts (which now seem to include the HMRC £1 million and the Town Hall's £1.5 million for business rates) - maybe they rather wait for administration instead - but what happens if KA says he will liquidate instead? I guess he will need to work out what is best for him - financially. It doesn't look that he will pay the Moonshift loan, so I guess he would then lose control of the club - so until then he could I suppose play the voluntary liquidation card if he wanted to? I doubt he feels the love for the club after the witch hunt and the abuse he and his son as endured since they arrived - irrespective of whatever he had done in the past. So liquidation could be his parting shot to the likes of Iles, the ST, et al, if he wanted to be vindictive I guess? So he could play the liquidation card and have no qualms about it imo - so is it financially worth his while to do so? So if it is known we have at least £25 million worth of secured assets in the club - and an Administrator or Liquidator comes in, the even after their charges and paying off HMRC, the Town Hall, etc, etc, there would still be a fair lump of assets left to pay a percentage in the pound to the secured creditors (of which KA is one to the value of £5 million). Let us say for argument sake it takes £10 million to pay for Admin/Liquidation and the current bills - that would still leave £15 million in the put to pay towards the creditors - or roughly 60p in the pound. I don't know enough to know where KA would stand in the line of creditors but if he is equal first for the settlement after Administration he would presumably be entitled to £3 million (£5 million x 60%) but he would now simply be a creditor in someone else's ownership of the club(?) (or maybe his loan falls due for repayment soon anyway and he can demand it back - or even pay it to himself if he still owns the club at the time?) whereas if he went the liquidation route, I guess the secured creditors would be priority creditors over HMRC and the Town Hall etc, and such and get first dibs on the assets, with potentially KA getting his full £5 million (less his contribution towards the liquidators charges) AND have access to his money right away! It also means he can wriggle out of potential bother over accusations of trading when knowingly insolvent as well(?). I do think it is an option and certainly one to be considered but it all really depends on what the legal technicalities of liquidation are and whether he stands a better chance of getting his millions out of the club if he is going to soon ownership of it to Moonshift. We could do with an expert in dealing with insolvency to advice us on the matter. If only we knew one. Ultimately though I would think Moonshift would be the key player in the eventual outcome of the path the club goes down. Just me entirely guessing though.
Tonge moor green jacket Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 If the company did default to moonshift, how quickly would that happen, given the loan is due to be paid soon? Would this happen before any voluntary liquidation procedures?
Kane57 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Posted February 10, 2019 Hopefully quicker than it would take Sluffy to summarise it all *JOKE* In all seriousness, I don't really see Ken liquidating the club because of a minor spat with the local journo and/or the ST.
Escobarp Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 31 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: If the company did default to moonshift, how quickly would that happen, given the loan is due to be paid soon? Would this happen before any voluntary liquidation procedures? Depends on what’s written into the loan agreement. Specific clauses for defaults and period to remedy etc. Obviously there will be some idiots who think the day we don’t pay the club is liquidated but isn’t the case. Would be a notice of default served and then attempts at restructuring it etc. Also depends what it’s secured on. I.e could be a specific asset that is transferred to them or sold to repay. It’s all speculation. But one thjng for sure folk are talking about liquidation far far to early. The club would be bought from admin in my opinion. You’ve probably got a couple of buyers waiting in the wings for this event if it occurs.
wakey Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 51 minutes ago, Sluffy said: I don't know enough to know where KA would stand in the line of creditors but if he is equal first for the settlement after Administration he would presumably be entitled to £3 million (£5 million x 60%) In my view he's sod all chance of his security standing up in admin or liquidation - wouldn't be too hard to determine that when the owner granted himself security the club was already trading insolvently and had no chance of paying it back. His past history won't earn him any leeway either. Then again, I'm not a lawyer or insolvency bod.
Mounts Kipper Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, wakey said: In my view he's sod all chance of his security standing up in admin or liquidation - wouldn't be too hard to determine that when the owner granted himself security the club was already trading insolvently and had no chance of paying it back. His past history won't earn him any leeway either. Then again, I'm not a lawyer or insolvency bod. Exactly, he’s running out of options the worry is a desperate man might do something that might impinge on us for next season, we don’t need a points deduction going into our league 1 campaign next season.
Take Hunt Off Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 Precisely why there was no need to alienate him .He has the power to shaft us no danger....if I was religeous I would be in church right now praying.
victor meldrew Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Take Hunt Off said: Precisely why there was no need to alienate him .He has the power to shaft us no danger....if I was religeous I would be in church right now praying. mosque , be more appropriate, oh , that's friday could you imagine a massive minaret in horwich
e2e4 Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 On 08/02/2019 at 21:59, MalcolmW said: It's the lack of goals which limits our points potential. And the lack of chances to score does not help. Neither does the lack of possession. bin thinking about this since maybe christmas last year (not the one just gone) . the hope i have is that the goals conceded arent at coyle levels , so maybe theres a chance. we arent getting 4 goals a game we needed under coyle to win. but we dont need to. slim .. but so are the margins of defeat(s).
MickyD Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 Four minnarets; one in each corner of the country's first open-roof Mosque.
Take Hunt Off Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 1 minute ago, MickyD said: Four minnarets; one in each corner of the country's first open-roof Mosque. Behave
snowball Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 Was told a few months ago Council was owed around £1milllion and rising. They dont want to be the ones that push the club over the edge which is why they havent pursued it officially until now. In an awkward position tho coz if other businesses find out they might try it on as well. Seems like finally lost patience
Boby Brno Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 36 minutes ago, snowball said: Was told a few months ago Council was owed around £1milllion and rising. They dont want to be the ones that push the club over the edge which is why they havent pursued it officially until now. In an awkward position tho coz if other businesses find out they might try it on as well. Seems like finally lost patience Other businesses are well aware of the situation and will do whatever is in their best interests. Its no secret that suppliers aren’t being paid and haven’t been for some time.
Tombwfc Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 7 hours ago, Sluffy said: I doubt he feels the love for the club after the witch hunt and the abuse he and his son as endured since they arrived - irrespective of whatever he had done in the past. So liquidation could be his parting shot to the likes of Iles, the ST, et al, if he wanted to be vindictive I guess? So if Ken shuts the club down and walks away with a dead-mans £5mil, it's Marc Iles fault? Brilliant. Whatever deal Ken and Eddie made, I'd be fairly sure it's not just as simple as Ken being able to default on the loan and turn it into £millions, while Davies (now his estate) get back the football club he sold him for £1.
Kane57 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Posted February 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, Tombwfc said: So if Ken shuts the club down and walks away with a dead-mans £5mil, it's Marc Iles fault? Brilliant. Whatever deal Ken and Eddie made, I'd be fairly sure it's not just as simple as Ken being able to default on the loan and turn it into £millions, while Davies (now his estate) get back the football club he sold him for £1. Don't push him, Tom, or he'll stick some more leaflets through your door
Roger_Dubuis Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 2 hours ago, snowball said: Was told a few months ago Council was owed around £1milllion and rising. They dont want to be the ones that push the club over the edge which is why they havent pursued it officially until now. In an awkward position tho coz if other businesses find out they might try it on as well. Seems like finally lost patience The Council would be justified in going after him for the debt in my opinion.If there is enough money at the club for Anderson to pay himself a 525k consultancy fee and his son 125K there is no need for the debt to the council to be so high
Sluffy Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Tombwfc said: So if Ken shuts the club down and walks away with a dead-mans £5mil, it's Marc Iles fault? Brilliant. Whatever deal Ken and Eddie made, I'd be fairly sure it's not just as simple as Ken being able to default on the loan and turn it into £millions, while Davies (now his estate) get back the football club he sold him for £1. Dear God another one on my case now whenever I post something. I was NOT saying that Anderson was going to put the club into liquidation just to get back at Iles - I can't believe you actually read it that way? What I was saying was that voluntary liquidation is a possible third option to KA selling the club or it going into Administration. Anderson no doubt will attempt to steer the best route for himself - and that may not necessarily be the best route for the future of the club - particularly if he did happen to go down the voluntary liquidation route. Would perhaps having some sort of soft spot for the club possibly dissuade him from that choice if it came to it - possibly - but I doubt he does have a soft spot for the club after the vilification of him from the very start by some - and that's why I said it could be his farewell - his 'parting shot' - to the likes of those whose were anti-him from the beginning.
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