Jump to content
Wanderers Ways - passion not fashion

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Duck Egg said:

Statistically, are black people more likely to be subjected to stop and search, over represented in prison, under represented in the boardroom and universities?

Systemic and institutional racism is far harder to quantify as it's more of an idea or notion.  The death of Stephen Lawrence being a prime example.

I think the UK has made great strides in supporting and promoting racial equality in our society but equally I'm sure there's much more still to be done.  I'm a white bloke with, I think, a comfortable upbringing and lifestyle, I'm not likely to recognise inequality that easily.

With regards Black people and Universities / Education, the data shows that Black Africans perform better at School than Whites, Black Caribbeans perform slightly worse than Whites. If skin color was a predominant factor then you would surely expect to see both Black Africans and Black Caribbeans do worse than Whites?  Both Black Caribbeans and Black Africans are more likely to go to University than whites, so Universities over index in minorities in the UK. Is this bad thing? If it was the other way round groups including BLM would be pushing for action. Should Universities do more to attract White people so they can achieve parity?  

Now its fair to say that whilst both black groups over index vs Whites in Higher education they go on to earn slight less than whites when you look at average pay (worth mentioning at this point that the Chinese group earn +30% more on average than the White group, Indian group +20%). Part of the parity gap can be explained when you break the BAME group down further. Many of that group weren't born here and they drag down the average for that group (over 50% weren't born here and settled here during their life). I think its certainly understandable that someone born and educated in another country will be unlikely to have the same employment chances as someone born here and educated here (given our system is likely better than the one that they came from, otherwise why would they emigrate to somewhere with a lesser system if not to give their kids a better chance in life). This also needs taking into consideration when looking at our boardrooms, is it likely that someone will emigrate here with their family in their 20's or 30's, get used to living in a new country / culture and make it to the very top of the biggest companies in the land, I think that's unlikely whilst not impossible. Also worth remembering that our BAME community are on the whole much younger so they over index heavily in the under 30 age group, they massively under index in the over 50 group which tends to be the age of your average board member. Dont forget a huge number of the BAME over 50's will not have been born here. Our boardrooms are 7% BAME vs 14% of the population, yet only 9% of the over 50's population are BAME, with the majority of them being born outside the UK  

With regards stop and searches / Justice, firstly lets not forget that the quantum number of stop and searches in the UK is really small, even within the Black group (375k total S&S in the UK vs a population of 66m - S&S on Black people 70k on a population of 1.8m). Secondly, 50% of all S&S happen in London when that only accounts for 15% of the total population, this is driven by London having a much greater problem with knife crime than many other areas. Cressida Dick came out recently and said...

"The way we look at it is to look at positive outcome rates: the proportion of the total where we find something you shouldn't be carrying. Somewhere between 23 and 25 per cent of those we stop have something on them they shouldn't have and that's the same whether they're black, white or Asian."

Surely if the S&S on Black people were incorrect due to racial profiling then the data would show an unequal number of S&S resulting in seizure of drugs / weapons for white groups vs Black. The fact that the results of S&S are similar for all groups circa 23-25% indicate that whilst a Black person is much more likely to be stooped and searched, they are also much more likely to be carrying something they shouldn't be (Knives / drugs). However the vast majority of all groups are unlikely to be stopped and searched (the vast majority of all groups are law abiding) 

I've seen reports that tried to spin sentencing in courts as racist, prominent Black MP David Lammy contributed to a report on racial bias in 2016 and he found that a black person is 50% more likely to plead not guilty than a white person. Given our justice system works in a way that a defendant that pleads guilty gets a half tariff its understandable that the average sentence for a Black Person would be higher than that for a White person when comparing the same crimes. The same Lammy report flagged the huge correlation between knife crime and absent fathers... 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19815831

Given an estimated 50% of Black children in the UK fall into this category (vs 20% of the white community, 1% for Indian and Chinese), it would indicate that many Black Children are being let down by their biological fathers abandoning them, this was experienced by Lammy himself and Barack Obama who has also flagged this as a key issue holding back the Black Community in the US...

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/16/us/politics/15cnd-obama.html

Its quite stark for me that the two groups that perform best in all the data (Indian and Chinese) are the ones with the highest number of families who stay together. A stable home with two parents allows for better economic chances and a stronger morale grounding for the children. Now of course its not impossible for a single parent to still do an excellent job, its just a lot harder, per 100k families you will have more issues with crime / educational attainment in the single parent group. 

Given the clear issue above both here in the US and Caribbean I found it bizarre that the BLM US web site called for an end to the 'Western prescribed nuclear family', this seemed very counter productive, but in fairness they have now removed this from their site 

 

 

Edited by birch-chorley
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 4.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

This will be my last post in this thread but here’s a story. When I was a kid I played football and I was decent, got a few player of the year trophies, I was fuckin rapid and scored goals for fu

Woah baby...Im not angry!  You say  "Thats where those boos come from. Misaligned cultural battles." Im saying they dont, and know for an absolute fact they dont. Ive been over why they

Help! Help! Somebody please argue with me cos I hate being ignored 😁

Posted Images

40 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

With regards Black people and Universities / Education, the data shows that Black Africans perform better at School than Whites, Black Caribbeans perform slightly worse than Whites. If skin color was a predominant factor then you would surely expect to see both Black Africans and Black Caribbeans do worse than Whites?  Both Black Caribbeans and Black Africans are more likely to go to University than whites, so Universities over index in minorities in the UK. Is this bad thing? If it was the other way round groups including BLM would be pushing for action. Should Universities do more to attract White people so they can achieve parity?  

Now its fair to say that whilst both black groups over index vs Whites in Higher education they go on to earn slight less than whites when you look at average pay (worth mentioning at this point that the Chinese group earn +30% more on average than the White group, Indian group +20%). Part of the parity gap can be explained when you break the BAME group down further. Many of that group weren't born here and they drag down the average for that group (over 50% weren't born here and settled here during their life). I think its certainly understandable that someone born and educated in another country will be unlikely to have the same employment chances as someone born here and educated here (given our system is likely better than the one that they came from, otherwise why would they emigrate to somewhere with a lesser system if not to give their kids a better chance in life). This also needs taking into consideration when looking at our boardrooms, is it likely that someone will emigrate here with their family in their 20's or 30's, get used to living in a new country / culture and make it to the very top of the biggest companies in the land, I think that's unlikely whilst not impossible. Also worth remembering that our BAME community are on the whole much younger so they over index heavily in the under 30 age group, they massively under index in the over 50 group which tends to be the age of your average board member. Dont forget a huge number of the BAME over 50's will not have been born here. Our boardrooms are 7% BAME vs 14% of the population, yet only 9% of the over 50's population are BAME, with the majority of them being born outside the UK  

With regards stop and searches / Justice, firstly lets not forget that the quantum number of stop and searches in the UK is really small, even within the Black group (375k total S&S in the UK vs a population of 66m - S&S on Black people 70k on a population of 1.8m). Secondly, 50% of all S&S happen in London when that only accounts for 15% of the total population, this is driven by London having a much greater problem with knife crime than many other areas. Cressida Dick came out recently and said...

"The way we look at it is to look at positive outcome rates: the proportion of the total where we find something you shouldn't be carrying. Somewhere between 23 and 25 per cent of those we stop have something on them they shouldn't have and that's the same whether they're black, white or Asian."

Surely if the S&S on Black people were incorrect due to racial profiling then the data would show an unequal number of S&S resulting in seizure of drugs / weapons for white groups vs Black. The fact that the results of S&S are similar for all groups circa 23-25% indicate that whilst a Black person is much more likely to be stooped and searched, they are also much more likely to be carrying something they shouldn't be (Knives / drugs). However the vast majority of all groups are unlikely to be stopped and searched (the vast majority of all groups are law abiding) 

I've seen reports that tried to spin sentencing in courts as racist, prominent Black MP David Lammy contributed to a report on racial bias in 2016 and he found that a black person is 50% more likely to plead not guilty than a white person. Given our justice system works in a way that a defendant that pleads guilty gets a half tariff its understandable that the average sentence for a Black Person would be higher than that for a White person when comparing the same crimes. The same Lammy report flagged the huge correlation between knife crime and absent fathers... 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19815831

Given an estimated 50% of Black children in the UK fall into this category (vs 20% of the white community, 1% for Indian and Chinese), it would indicate that many Black Children are being let down by their biological fathers abandoning them, this was experienced by Lammy himself and Barack Obama who has also flagged this as a key issue holding back the Black Community in the US...

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/16/us/politics/15cnd-obama.html

Its quite stark for me that the two groups that perform best in all the data (Indian and Chinese) are the ones with the highest number of families who stay together. A stable home with two parents allows for better economic chances and a stronger morale grounding for the children. Now of course its not impossible for a single parent to still do an excellent job, its just a lot harder, per 100k families you will have more issues with crime / educational attainment in the single parent group. 

Given the clear issue above both here in the US and Caribbean I found it bizarre that the BLM US web site called for an end to the 'Western prescribed nuclear family', this seemed very counter productive, but in fairness they have now removed this from their site 

 

 

Long but clear and insightful that post Birch, sometimes I bet it feels like your repeating yourself. 

From an education perspective, I work in it and the facts you have provided pretty much replicate this 👌

Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

The lovely race baiter Ash Sarkar at the front 

So work this out. The Organisation that some fans are booing are now demonstrating in London saying shouting “Fuck the police” 

If NIC hears booing at the game he’s going to assume it’s a racist boo (if there’s such a thing) and report it to the police. 
 

Thats the very police that they’re singing fuck the police to 🤦‍♂️.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, royal white said:

So work this out. The Organisation that some fans are booing are now demonstrating in London saying shouting “Fuck the police” 

If NIC hears booing at the game he’s going to assume it’s a racist boo (if there’s such a thing) and report it to the police. 
 

Thats the very police that they’re singing fuck the police to 🤦‍♂️.

Yes mate, the same police who the same protestors run to when one of theirs gets injured....couldn't script it 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Read about this earlier - poor lass. Police officer left with shocking injuries after being punched in the face by teenager (yahoo.com)

Not seen the video. But if those officers have punched a 16 year old during a stop and search then they should lose their jobs and face further action if necessary.

But all this Fuck the Police / ACAB nonsense in response does fuck all to warm anyone to the cause. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, London Wanderer said:

Read about this earlier - poor lass. Police officer left with shocking injuries after being punched in the face by teenager (yahoo.com)

Not seen the video. But if those officers have punched a 16 year old during a stop and search then they should lose their jobs and face further action if necessary.

But all this Fuck the Police / ACAB nonsense in response does fuck all to warm anyone to the cause. 

Do you know what the 16 year old did to warrant a punch? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, London Wanderer said:

Read about this earlier - poor lass. Police officer left with shocking injuries after being punched in the face by teenager (yahoo.com)

Not seen the video. But if those officers have punched a 16 year old during a stop and search then they should lose their jobs and face further action if necessary.

But all this Fuck the Police / ACAB nonsense in response does fuck all to warm anyone to the cause. 

The lad they stopped punched the officer mate. Not the other way round??? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

I've not a scoobies. First I've head is from the twitter video you posted saying a video had gone viral. 

Found it, obviously only a small part of what happened. Not much to be gained from that. 

 

 

 

Edited by royal white
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, London Wanderer said:

Yeah I've no idea. You got the video?  Seems fair if they were acting in defence.

Ive just read the link you posted. Ive not heard owt else but see rw has posted a video of a different incident. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Ive just read the link you posted. Ive not heard owt else but see rw has posted a video of a different incident. 

Ah sorry I was talking about two separate incidents. Yeah the link I posted was some scumbag who attacked the female officer. Then in second half of the post I was talking about the incident they were protesting about in London today. 

Edited by London Wanderer
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Site Supporter
44 minutes ago, royal white said:

Found it, obviously only a small part of what happened. Not much to be gained from that. 

 

 

 

ok

so we know a copper twatted a kid, regardless, that's not on, black or otherwise - for some reason the kid has his arm round the cops neck for some reason, but if that's two coppers making the arrest or doing the search, they should be able to avoid that happening

and call me a cynic, but I'm not buying this "excuse", just seems a little contrived - why did they have to justify why he was walking down a street?

Protesters say he was in the area having been invited to pick up his qualification at Park View school.

though I'm sure they can prove it anyway, just don't see the relevance, unless it's relevant

Edited by ZicoKelly
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ZicoKelly said:

that said a little charisma can go a long way, because the better at coding someone is, the more of a know it all geeky cunt with zero social skills they tend to be, like 

 

Although totally true, I’m fine in front of customers, interfaced at board level with a few banks etc. I think I’m quite charismatic for a low level programmer. You should see the rest of them!

We haven’t been bitten by political correctness, with massive skills shortages, it’s not an option.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Site Supporter
23 minutes ago, Carlos said:

Although totally true, I’m fine in front of customers, interfaced at board level with a few banks etc. I think I’m quite charismatic for a low level programmer. You should see the rest of them!

We haven’t been bitten by political correctness, with massive skills shortages, it’s not an option.

 

yeah, same here and yeah, I've seen them

we had one lad though, he was almost too geeky and good at coding for his own good

he could build complex wep apps - e.g. a bespoke workflow management tool, but, they were that complex, even he got lost in his code, and then he had to try and explain it all to non techy people as to how it worked

the meetings went on for hours and everyone, except him, were prepared to shoot themselves in the head to get out of hearing him go on

I've also found hardcore programmers to also be hardcore god botherers (well, I worked with two) - was fascinating that someone could be obssessed with logic and faith at the same time

anyway

to keep on topic, neither were black

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Announcements


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.