It’s kicking off

Russian police arrest over 1000 protesters

Alexei Navalny, has been poisoned and arrested and still had this documentary released 

His wife has been arrested as well. 

Some serious minerals on this chap 

Edited February 27, 20224 yr by Rudy

19 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

‘Most’ of us can see.

Even the Trump fanboys know what's happening, and they're OK with it, but I guess that's their prerogative.

 

For what it's worth, I wish we'd never got involved in the first place, in the manner that we have, but here we are 🙂

Just for accuracy and some balance, it should be remembered that the US has agreed to restart military aid and intelligence sharing with Ukraine.

Undoubtedly to put pressure on Russia.

Again, it's been a rather sorry tale of international diplomacy, but the intent is there, and it may pay prove successful.

The proof of the pudding and l all that.

 

2 minutes ago, royal white said:

So Europe doesn’t have any intelligence services? Europe doesn’t have any money or military equipment to send? I mentioned it yesterday, what a sad state of affairs that europe has to rely on a country 1000s of miles away in trillions of debt to get us out of the shit. Quite embarrassing really isn’t it.

The reality is that we don't have to, but we're happy to, as it's not our money that's being frittered away. If Europe really wanted to, I'm sure they could mass/join together and send Russia packing within a few weeks, there's just little/no appetite to do so, it seems

1 minute ago, Sweep said:

The reality is that we don't have to, but we're happy to, as it's not our money that's being frittered away. If Europe really wanted to, I'm sure they could mass/join together and send Russia packing within a few weeks, there's just little/no appetite to do so, it seems

Yep, though that may be changing- Starmer's coalition reportedly at 30 countries now. 

Not before time.

I reckon Vlad and his henchmen will be able to read the situation now, and will be realising that a ceasefire is in their interests too. 

4 minutes ago, Sweep said:

The reality is that we don't have to, but we're happy to, as it's not our money that's being frittered away. If Europe really wanted to, I'm sure they could mass/join together and send Russia packing within a few weeks, there's just little/no appetite to do so, it seems

Brilliant, so Europe is happy to do very little even though a country on their continent is being invaded. Yet America who seem to be doing more than most in regards money/aid/equipment and talks are the bad guys. Someone please make it make sense. 

10 minutes ago, royal white said:

So Europe doesn’t have any intelligence services? Europe doesn’t have any money or military equipment to send? I mentioned it yesterday, what a sad state of affairs that europe has to rely on a country 1000s of miles away in trillions of debt to get us out of the shit. Quite embarrassing really isn’t it.

Not really. Because that is the way the security architecture has been designed since the end of the second world war. And the US has a higher GDP than the whole of Europe combined. 

I'm sure as a continent we could do more - but that would likely mean further integration with the EU and a 'European Army' which would be a political nightmare to try and set up. 

Just now, royal white said:

Brilliant, so Europe is happy to do very little even though a country on their continent is being invaded. Yet America who seem to be doing more than most in regards money/aid/equipment and talks are the bad guys. Someone please make it make sense. 

That's only my take on it. Fuck knows what's really going on.....perhaps some parties don't want the war to end. NATO should just drop a tactical nuke on the area that Russia have taken, and render it desolate for a few hundred years, it would also serve as a nice DMZ as well 😜

Just now, kent_white said:

Not really. Because that is the way the security architecture has been designed since the end of the second world war. And the US has a higher GDP than the whole of Europe combined. 

I'm sure as a continent we could do more - but that would likely mean further integration with the EU and a 'European Army' which would be a political nightmare to try and set up. 

Australian, Canada and NZ are all willing to help out. I doubt they have very little interest in joining an EU army. 

2 minutes ago, royal white said:

Brilliant, so Europe is happy to do very little even though a country on their continent is being invaded. Yet America who seem to be doing more than most in regards money/aid/equipment and talks are the bad guys. Someone please make it make sense. 

Come on. You're a military man. Surely the cover this in your training? 

And I think Europe have contributed more to Ukraine than the US overall haven't they? 

1 minute ago, royal white said:

Australian, Canada and NZ are all willing to help out. I doubt they have very little interest in joining an EU army. 

Great. But what you're talking about is essentially a NATO without the US. 

I'm not so sure they'd be as keen to join that. With the exception on Canada of course. 

By the way. I'm pretty sure the European approach has got tacit approval from DT. As a kind of carrot and stick approach. 

I'd be enormously surprised if it hasn't been consulted on with the US in great detail. 

This is where we are at Between us all on here.

Europe has done enough and we shouldn’t be sending more money

Europe isn’t doing enough

 We are fucked without Amercia

We don’t need America

let Russia keep some Land

Russia should have no land 

VZ is a coward 

VZ is a hero 

Trump is Baaaaaaaad so bad 

Trump is good 

 

*feel free to add

 

It’s a good job WW don’t have any reps at the negotiating table 

14 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Come on. You're a military man. Surely the cover this in your training? 

And I think Europe have contributed more to Ukraine than the US overall haven't they? 

Yes and in real time as well. We are a lapdog to America and we are to reliant on them.

3 minutes ago, royal white said:

Yes and in real time as well. We are a lapdog to America and we are to reliant on them.

That's as may be. But you're asking a question about a wider issue. 

Should Europe be more aggressive in its defensive posture and be less reliant and compliant with the US. 

I absolutely think we should - especially since Trump has ripped up the old rule book. 

But that is going to come with a big price tag and will need a lot of integration to make it work. 

But the US did alright out of the old arrangement too. It was universally seen as the leader of the free world because the powers that it helped to protect aquiesenced to that. And it could also use that influence to garner support internationally. 

It's not all one way. 

and for all trumps bleating, how much of the hardware is made by yanks

the orange cunt

3 minutes ago, kent_white said:

That's as may be. But you're asking a question about a wider issue. 

Should Europe be more aggressive in its defensive posture and be less reliant and compliant with the US. 

I absolutely think we should - especially since Trump has ripped up the old rule book. 

But that is going to come with a big price tag and will need a lot of integration to make it work. 

But the US did alright out of the old arrangement too. It was universally seen as the leader of the free world because the powers that it helped to protect aquiesenced to that. And it could also use that influence to garner support internationally. 

It's not all one way. 

Europe is giving the impression that this is what they want to do. If that’s the case they may have to crack in without America (or without as much help).

At the moment the majority of us on here are guessing what country wants to do. If America do indeed suggest Ukraine have to cede some land will Europe just roll over and agree with it or will they say fuck you, this is on our doorstep we will deal with it? 

44 minutes ago, royal white said:

So Europe doesn’t have any intelligence services? Europe doesn’t have any money or military equipment to send? I mentioned it yesterday, what a sad state of affairs that europe has to rely on a country 1000s of miles away in trillions of debt to get us out of the shit. Quite embarrassing really isn’t it.

Not what I said. US intelligence and starlink are what Ukraine have been predominantly using. It is hard to change that overnight. We have nuclear weapons but they are useless as a deterrent without US support.

37 minutes ago, royal white said:

Brilliant, so Europe is happy to do very little even though a country on their continent is being invaded. Yet America who seem to be doing more than most in regards money/aid/equipment and talks are the bad guys. Someone please make it make sense. 

America have spent a century bowling about being the world's police.

As leaders of the free world they've kind of got a duty.

 

2 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Not what I said. US intelligence and starlink are what Ukraine have been predominantly using. It is hard to change that overnight. We have nuclear weapons but they are useless as a deterrent without US support.

So you will agree with what I said that we are to reliant on a  country 1000s of miles away. 

28 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Not really. Because that is the way the security architecture has been designed since the end of the second world war. And the US has a higher GDP than the whole of Europe combined. 

I'm sure as a continent we could do more - but that would likely mean further integration with the EU and a 'European Army' which would be a political nightmare to try and set up. 

Gdp and gdp per capita are indeed higher.

That said, the relative spend on the military is also higher by the US, and other nations should pull their weight.

I disagree about the integration though.

There is already a high degree of interoperability within NATO and that is expanding.

The US also sells more arms abroad than anyone else, including to NATO partners and beyond.

There is no reason to undertake an additional, parallel course, with undoubted duplication. 

A European army may also be subject to more political influence, as opposed to NATO, that manages to encapsulate many different cultures in one organisation. Clearly Trump has made suggestions over funding previously, but they were justified.

There are also many smaller elements of western allies selling both components and finished equipment to each other.

All useful when pushing for continued development of equipment, rather than having one source.

Just now, gonzo said:

America have spent a century bowling about being the world's police.

As leaders of the free world they've kind of got a duty.

 

Correct. 

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

America have spent a century bowling about being the world's police.

As leaders of the free world they've kind of got a duty.

 

In which case those that are being protected, ought to pay their dues.

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

America have spent a century bowling about being the world's police.

As leaders of the free world they've kind of got a duty.

 

They’ve also pretty much failed in some of their more recent larger conflicts. 

Just now, royal white said:

So you will agree with what I said that we are to reliant on a  country 1000s of miles away. 

See Gonzo post. US have been the leaders of the west and NATO. They have a responsibility on safety and security which we have duly supported along with other allies.

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

In which case those that are being protected, ought to pay their dues.

Of course but to pull the plug overnight is a very dangerous and irresponsible act.