Covid?

Brexit?

Both?

I notice it’s taken McDonald’s to run out of milkshakes for it to actually cause people to lose their shit.

I read that 14,000 EU lorry drivers left jobs in the UK since brexit, and only 600 have returned.

Covid caused loss of tests to be cancelled.

 

5 minutes ago, Ani said:

But that is because in the old days hardly anyone went, which was my point. Now we are pushing 50% through which is what I said. So we are ending up with a generation with degrees that are of little or no value whereas alternatives such as apprenticeships were pushed down the pecking order and are now emerging as at least if not a better option 

Indeed.

 

56 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

I’d suggest you would be spot on in your desire to have a bet. I see the investment being poured into the industry and we are a long way off automation as it doesn’t suit the industry as it stands. 
 

that said my current car steers, brakes etc whilst on cruise control. It’s quite scary actually to place the trust in the vehicle. But the tech clearly isn’t a million miles away it just won’t be developed to the point Ani suggests for quite some time and much longer than 20 years IMO. 

If I am wrong in 20 years I will buy you and Zico a pint although he clearly thinks I will be dead by then so will add to my will, having started jogging up the steps at Sunderland on Saturday he may well be right . 
The pace at which technology develops only ever increases so the 20 years might not be as crazy as you think. The massive benefits of this will see it happen, I agree 20 years is ambitious. It is probably social attitudes that will slow it up rather then the tech. 

Just now, Ani said:

If I am wrong in 20 years I will buy you and Zico a pint although he clearly thinks I will be dead by then so will add to my will, having started jogging up the steps at Sunderland on Saturday he may well be right . 
The pace at which technology develops only ever increases so the 20 years might not be as crazy as you think. The massive benefits of this will see it happen, I agree 20 years is ambitious. It is probably social attitudes that will slow it up rather then the tech. 

And the motor industry not wanting to effectively kill itself which was my underlying point! 
 

 

5 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

And the motor industry not wanting to effectively kill itself which was my underlying point! 
 

 

Luddites you lot 😂😎

7 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

 

And as Crawley pointed out, I lot of jobs now specify a degree is required.

Of course, but with little option but to do so.

30 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

🤦‍♂️

by letting them use their own vehciles! 

still get folk turning up in branded vansf from companies but half of the amazon/hermes ones these days come via a bloke who is either using his own car, or, they've have a bought a load of old citreons for their fleets

5 minutes ago, Ani said:

But that is because in the old days hardly anyone went, which was my point. Now we are pushing 50% through which is what I said. So we are ending up with a generation with degrees that are of little or no value whereas alternatives such as apprenticeships were pushed down the pecking order and are now emerging as at least if not a better option 

No we are pushing 50% of 12-24's not overall population and its actually gone down last year.

I personally think that's way too broad a statement as many of the degrees do have hugely practical elements.

I agree that there are some who.would be better off not going who have gone. I used to be a guest speaker on a drama degree course as they had to do a module on marketing - a few really got engaged the rest dreamed of being performers. If they were that good at acting they wouldn't have been a UKC but if they took the opportunity the course gave them to explore and get experience on all the other options available to them in the sector they would have done well out of it. So it's also down to the student. It's in the interests of the institution to make sure students have the best opportunities when they leave, sometimes it's also down to the individual. 

My arts admin module shut the year after I took it as so few people took it as an option, thought that was a crying shame and people were missing a real opportunity. I think there is only me and two others out of my year who now work in the cultural sector. One is a TV producer for ITV, the other went into academia and is now a lecturer, which given he did NVQs rather than A levels show there are more than one way to skin the intellectual cat.

12 minutes ago, Ani said:

If I am wrong in 20 years I will buy you and Zico a pint although he clearly thinks I will be dead by then so will add to my will, having started jogging up the steps at Sunderland on Saturday he may well be right . 

way I'm feeling after a weekend in the north east, I  might half to mention this in my will 

4 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Of course, but with little option but to do so.

Many business should think overall about this anyway,  I agree. But then I think job specs are a waste of time as well.

We set to much rigour by these arbitrary lists which causes people to use the wrong set of criteria to employ people.and it sort of hangs around beyond its useful.func5ion before the age old and inevitable restructure.

 

5 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

No we are pushing 50% of 12-24's not overall population and its actually gone down last year.

I personally think that's way too broad a statement as many of the degrees do have hugely practical elements.

I agree that there are some who.would be better off not going who have gone. I used to be a guest speaker on a drama degree course as they had to do a module on marketing - a few really got engaged the rest dreamed of being performers. If they were that good at acting they wouldn't have been a UKC but if they took the opportunity the course gave them to explore and get experience on all the other options available to them in the sector they would have done well out of it. So it's also down to the student. It's in the interests of the institution to make sure students have the best opportunities when they leave, sometimes it's also down to the individual. 

My arts admin module shut the year after I took it as so few people took it as an option, thought that was a crying shame and people were missing a real opportunity. I think there is only me and two others out of my year who now work in the cultural sector. One is a TV producer for ITV, the other went into academia and is now a lecturer, which given he did NVQs rather than A levels show there are more than one way to skin the intellectual cat.

Ok to be clear in my day 10% or so of school leavers were going to Uni. These days it is over half. I sure you understood that I was not claiming 50% of the whole population was going to Uni. If not I apologise for not being clear 🤔. 
 

And as Mick states the whole Uni experience was part of the brilliance of going. A time I would not swap. Having seen the cohort who Yoof went to school with come out the other end it is sad how generic their experience has been apart from a small number ( I would argue about 10-15 % of them to be pedantic 😁) who have actually moved on. These might well equate to the ones you mention choosing course over institution. And for those doing that I am 100% supportive of the Uni experience. 
But to go and live in custom built halls of residence and chose Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle etc for the night life just does not seem to make much sense. 
The fact they are now largely living back at home in jobs that for the vast majority need a head set rather than degree testifies they are hardly living the dream. Not sure if it is surprising but a couple who went to Sheffield aiming to go into teaching are probably the ones doing best of those still living local. Of yoofs mates that I know I think 2 or 3 out of about 15 have moved away/stayed away after Uni, rest are back home 

On the shortages bit, my missus is going to some near Chesterfield today. Needed some petrol so had queued up and put £10 in, just enough to get there and back. 
I have tried to explain that filling up or even putting £20 in as she normally does is not hoarding ! A small part of me wants them to run out on way back 

5 minutes ago, Ani said:

Ok to be clear in my day 10% or so of school leavers were going to Uni. These days it is over half. I sure you understood that I was not claiming 50% of the whole population was going to Uni. If not I apologise for not being clear 🤔. 
 

And as Mick states the whole Uni experience was part of the brilliance of going. A time I would not swap. Having seen the cohort who Yoof went to school with come out the other end it is sad how generic their experience has been apart from a small number ( I would argue about 10-15 % of them to be pedantic 😁) who have actually moved on. These might well equate to the ones you mention choosing course over institution. And for those doing that I am 100% supportive of the Uni experience. 
But to go and live in custom built halls of residence and chose Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle etc for the night life just does not seem to make much sense. 
The fact they are now largely living back at home in jobs that for the vast majority need a head set rather than degree testifies they are hardly living the dream. Not sure if it is surprising but a couple who went to Sheffield aiming to go into teaching are probably the ones doing best of those still living local. Of yoofs mates that I know I think 2 or 3 out of about 15 have moved away/stayed away after Uni, rest are back home 

I get that I do think it was a good aim to rise the percentage from 10, to give able kids who didn't think higher education was for them a chance that's its not just for the few. My mum went to a secondary modern, it was only when she met my Dad (Bolton School) that he said try again as you are bright enough. Ended up as a lead examiner. She should have been told she had more opportunites at Harper Green than being told Prestons of Bolton was her only future.

Even now with two.kids at grammar still hate the system but at least the local.comp let's those in the top stream (sets 1) have their core classes with the grammar because they should be with the most able, even if they didn't pass at test at an arbitrary time and when more people from.affluent backgrounds pass it because they can afford to tutor their kids.

The point is, 10% left a lot behind who were capable of more, yes we probably have more going now than perhaps should but one would hope this means we're not killing the aspirations of the kids from backgrounds without very much to aim higher. I think that a valid thing to aim for, and not the rhetoric on loads of kids doing contemporary dance when they should be learning touch typing in the office.

Isn`t University now just a catch all term for higher education. Back in the day you had advanced technical colleges, mech institutes, art schools and polytechnics and around 25 Universities.

We now have a University of Bolton.

13 minutes ago, Ani said:

Ok to be clear in my day 10% or so of school leavers were going to Uni. These days it is over half. I sure you understood that I was not claiming 50% of the whole population was going to Uni. If not I apologise for not being clear 🤔. 
 

And as Mick states the whole Uni experience was part of the brilliance of going. A time I would not swap. Having seen the cohort who Yoof went to school with come out the other end it is sad how generic their experience has been apart from a small number ( I would argue about 10-15 % of them to be pedantic 😁) who have actually moved on. These might well equate to the ones you mention choosing course over institution. And for those doing that I am 100% supportive of the Uni experience. 
But to go and live in custom built halls of residence and chose Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle etc for the night life just does not seem to make much sense. 
The fact they are now largely living back at home in jobs that for the vast majority need a head set rather than degree testifies they are hardly living the dream. Not sure if it is surprising but a couple who went to Sheffield aiming to go into teaching are probably the ones doing best of those still living local. Of yoofs mates that I know I think 2 or 3 out of about 15 have moved away/stayed away after Uni, rest are back home 

That's another thing. Of my mates from my school who went to Uni, not one of them went back to live in Bolton.

The lads that didn't, pretty much everyone of them still lives there.

I never thought I'd leave Bolton as a kid, but Uni made me realise there was life beyond the end of my street. 

11 minutes ago, Nowack said:

Isn`t University now just a catch all term for higher education. Back in the day you had advanced technical colleges, mech institutes, art schools and polytechnics and around 25 Universities.

We now have a University of Bolton.

It just means they can validate their own degrees. It means the establishment has improved overall. So if you went to Bolton before, your degree was validated by Lancaster Uni I believe.

The death of art schools is a fucking shame though.

19 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

That's another thing. Of my mates from my school who went to Uni, not one of them went back to live in Bolton.

The lads that didn't, pretty much everyone of them still lives there.

I never thought I'd leave Bolton as a kid, but Uni made me realise there was life beyond the end of my street. 

Not sure what point your making here?

we’ve just put my missus eldest through uni and it cost a bit but it’s 100% his/our responsibility to do it. Do a beneficial degree or don’t bother.

36 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

I get that I do think it was a good aim to rise the percentage from 10, to give able kids who didn't think higher education was for them a chance that's its not just for the few. My mum went to a secondary modern, it was only when she met my Dad (Bolton School) that he said try again as you are bright enough. Ended up as a lead examiner. She should have been told she had more opportunites at Harper Green than being told Prestons of Bolton was her only future.

Even now with two.kids at grammar still hate the system but at least the local.comp let's those in the top stream (sets 1) have their core classes with the grammar because they should be with the most able, even if they didn't pass at test at an arbitrary time and when more people from.affluent backgrounds pass it because they can afford to tutor their kids.

The point is, 10% left a lot behind who were capable of more, yes we probably have more going now than perhaps should but one would hope this means we're not killing the aspirations of the kids from backgrounds without very much to aim higher. I think that a valid thing to aim for, and not the rhetoric on loads of kids doing contemporary dance when they should be learning touch typing in the office.

So we agree 10% was too low, or probably more significantly excluded far too many people from working class background and state school. The 50% whilst dealing with imo is too high and it ends up undervaluing the degree. 
Get the reference to contemporary dance and touch typing is to make a point but equally universities offering courses on 'sports marketing' when that sector does not have demand for all the graduates being churned out is self defeating. 
I was chatting with a bloke by the pool last week (yes I have been on holiday) who was a head honcho at what was at the time Oxford Poly, now called Oxford Brookes University, he was saying how much pressure these places are under to attract full fee paying overseas students and courses become tailored to that market rather the UK market. (That sounds like a bizarre made up chat I know and a strange way to spend a holiday). Just looked it up to check the name and they have 18000 students going through the place 

28 minutes ago, tomski said:

Not sure what point your making here?

we’ve just put my missus eldest through uni and it cost a bit but it’s 100% his/our responsibility to do it. Do a beneficial degree or don’t bother.

I'm making the point that going to university broadened my horizons.

I'd argue all degrees are beneficial.

For monied foreigners a three-year degree here, even in Advanced Folk Art and Basketry, is a big fuck off foot in the door for residency, naturalisation even...

Plus if your home country is a domain of despots (or you are a despot) and/or warzone, why not buy your offspring a way out that doesn't involve trekking The Sahara or the Derian Gap then crossing The Med on an inflatable Unicorn?

This enable places like The UoB to spend cash like water...

Edited September 27, 20214 yr by Youri McAnespie

2 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

I'm making the point that going to university broadened my horizons.

I'd argue all degrees are beneficial.

No chance all degrees are beneficial 

1 minute ago, tomski said:

No chance all degrees are beneficial 

Course they are.

If you haven't got one you can't apply for any job that specifies a degree is required for starters.

 

3 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

I'm making the point that going to university broadened my horizons.

I'd argue all degrees are beneficial.

I bet given a straw Poll of mugs panic buying fuel, there ain't a degree between 'em...

Not in Mathematics not in Contemporary Dance.

2 minutes ago, tomski said:

No chance all degrees are beneficial 

Aye.

When they were a gateway into a genuine academic career then fine.

Not so much now.

I got my Masters in Business and Management in 2011, not worth the paper it's written on, it certainly never helped me

3 minutes ago, tomski said:

No chance all degrees are beneficial 

They get you out of work for three years.

You get to nob girls, or be nobbed by lads, or do whatever non-heteros do for sexy fun.

You can sneer at 'University of Life-ers'...