Injuries

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Lots of lower league clubs have internationals from all over.

For me, the biggest issue is training. 

[Steejay]

4 hours ago, masi 51 said:

Baxter, Firino, and Tu Tu signed with a bad  injury record cost nothing   Dempsey likewise cost 300k. Add us being one of the very few to put a strong team out in the EFL cup and there is your answer  Also a good point of players playing for Countries on micky mouse pitches.....No need for a review

Dempsey didn’t cost that much btw

[thebells]

4 hours ago, masi 51 said:

Baxter, Firino, and Tu Tu signed with a bad  injury record cost nothing   Dempsey likewise cost 300k. Add us being one of the very few to put a strong team out in the EFL cup and there is your answer  Also a good point of players playing for Countries on micky mouse pitches.....No need for a review

What’s your day rate for consultancy? 

[Dr. Feelgood]

Obviously we don't see the training, nor fully appreciate what pro football demands behind the scenes but all the managers who demand 100% all the time - & Evatt is one - must put their players bodies under huge stress.

Full-on training games, full-on tackles, 4 or 5 days a week, plus match day on plays who are already match fit, carrying injuries. The "they don't get picked if they're not up to it in the week" macho mantra must put some players on the edge.

[ianofcleveleys]

That's a fair issue to point out, would be interesting to see a breakdown of where our players have sustained injuries on match day and in training. We do seem to get a fair few in training, maybe due to surfaces, maybe the training load, maybe the lack of robustness of the player, or a mix of all three. 

 

[Dr. Feelgood]

Once match fit ... & inevitably carrying knocks ... maintaining that should be pretty straightforward.

So training should be about formations, variations, intricate patterns &, please God, dead balls ... attacking and defending. Just imagine if we could get crosses sorted. Even getting corners over the first man would be an achievement. 

[desperado]

48 minutes ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Once match fit ... & inevitably carrying knocks ... maintaining that should be pretty straightforward.

So training should be about formations, variations, intricate patterns &, please God, dead balls ... attacking and defending. Just imagine if we could get crosses sorted. Even getting corners over the first man would be an achievement. 

 

[thebells]

On the face of it, bemoaning injuries and criticising the club / physios / training methods may seem reasonable.

What we don't know is how we compare to other clubs. Not with opinions but with cold, hard facts.

How many games per season do we lose on average compared to other clubs, for example.
What are the 'types' of injury our players suffer, and how do these compare to other clubs?
Do players who sign for us get injured more or less than before once they have signed?

This would be the logical starting point of any analysis being done. We do 'seem' to have a lot of injuries. But there's a world of analysis to be done. 

Gut feel - some of them are run of the mill things that happen with all clubs (Gethin / George T / CMG). Whilst others are a direct result of us signing players with poor injury histories (Dempsey / Forino)

Doubt the full analysis will ever see the light of day, but the stats nerd in me would love to see it

[Casino]

2 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Once match fit ... & inevitably carrying knocks ... maintaining that should be pretty straightforward.

So training should be about formations, variations, intricate patterns &, please God, dead balls ... attacking and defending. Just imagine if we could get crosses sorted. Even getting corners over the first man would be an achievement. 

have you been asleep for the last 6 weeks?

 

(toal, santos, dempsey x 2, johnston missed a sitter (and thats straight off the top of my head)

 

also, GT fucked himself blocking a cross on a training routine

[ianofcleveleys]

We've improved in our productivity from set pieces, defending them still the area we need a lot more work on

[gonzo]

3 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Once match fit ... & inevitably carrying knocks ... maintaining that should be pretty straightforward.

So training should be about formations, variations, intricate patterns &, please God, dead balls ... attacking and defending. Just imagine if we could get crosses sorted. Even getting corners over the first man would be an achievement. 

Are you sure you've been watching the same team?

[desperado]

Schon, Santos and Matete 1 game away from suspension.

Wiped off after game 19…. Wigan 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Matete has accrued a few quite quickly really- not played that many games.

I'm guessing Sheehan will be on 3, if not the 4.

[Johnnyrotten]

4 hours ago, desperado said:

 

Is there a prize for listing them?

I've got the first 7:

Orient (Vic - thanks keeper), Reading (Sheehan & Dempsey), Crawley (Dempsey), Northampton (Toal), Stevenage (Santos & McAtee).

If there are 2 more is Lolos v Posh one of them?

Struggling with the last one.

[Johnnyrotten]

A pity our two best headers of a ball and a decent source of goals are both injured.

[Casino]

26 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Is there a prize for listing them?

I've got the first 7:

Orient (Vic - thanks keeper), Reading (Sheehan & Dempsey), Crawley (Dempsey), Northampton (Toal), Stevenage (Santos & McAtee).

If there are 2 more is Lolos v Posh one of them?

Struggling with the last one.

I think penalties are a push but a cpl for charles

Collins v burton?

Not saying it is

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

57 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

If there are 2 more is Lolos v Posh one of them?

I'd have to think not

But it's an interesting point

Obviously a header straight from a corner would count, but if it's headed, blocked by a defender and then knock in by another player, would that count?

Fuck nows

[Johnnyrotten]

17 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I'd have to think not

But it's an interesting point

Obviously a header straight from a corner would count, but if it's headed, blocked by a defender and then knock in by another player, would that count?

Fuck nows

And as @Casino says, are pens counted as set piece goals? 

I've just read a quote about the Prem that set pieces include free kicks, corners, pens, throw ins and goal kicks!   So the GK boots the ball down the pitch, Charles out paces the CB to score - that's a set piece goal.  It means any stats need a bit of a footnote, I know I think of set piece goals as those from corners/FKs, even if its from a clearance like McAtee's last week.  I wouldn't have included the Williams throw in or pens personally.  On the other hand I felt like we scored from that last minute corner v Posh (eventually) - but that's not counted.

[Stig]

14 hours ago, thebells said:

On the face of it, bemoaning injuries and criticising the club / physios / training methods may seem reasonable.

What we don't know is how we compare to other clubs. Not with opinions but with cold, hard facts.

How many games per season do we lose on average compared to other clubs, for example.
What are the 'types' of injury our players suffer, and how do these compare to other clubs?
Do players who sign for us get injured more or less than before once they have signed?

This would be the logical starting point of any analysis being done. We do 'seem' to have a lot of injuries. But there's a world of analysis to be done. 

Gut feel - some of them are run of the mill things that happen with all clubs (Gethin / George T / CMG). Whilst others are a direct result of us signing players with poor injury histories (Dempsey / Forino)

Doubt the full analysis will ever see the light of day, but the stats nerd in me would love to see it

Yeah I'd like to see that analysis but imagine it's pretty difficult to pull together type and duration of injuries given clubs have no reason to disclose all that.

In the absence of it all we can go off is a perception from the fans and the management (hence this review they're conducting) that we are picking up more injuries than other clubs.

The interesting thing in the BN quotes about this review is that Evatt mentions one possible reason could be that training isn't intense enough.... While he is right that without proper training you will pick up injuries in match, I'd be surprised if that's a factor given these are professional athletes and the training is said to be very intense. It's more a factor for me approaching 40 when I turn up to 7 a side after a week of doing nothing.

[Zico]

19 minutes ago, Stig said:

 

The interesting thing in the BN quotes about this review is that Evatt mentions one possible reason could be that training isn't intense enough.... 

There was a rumour the players don't put a shift in when IE isn't in attendance

[desperado]

For a club like Bolton to spend time and resource into an in-depth research study, which presumably would cost a chunk of money, would IMO be a waste of time

If a club like City with a limitless amount of wealth can’t get to the bottom of it and carry round one of the worst injury records in the country, then there’s not much hope for anyone else.

Thats not to say don’t look at obvious trends like players history, training methods etc

[Steejay]

Malingerers.

[thebells]

All fair points @desperado @Stig  

Tricky analysis to do. And no doubt countless injury studies already out there in the public domain for them to review. Just a question then of whether BWFC contributes environmental factors that increase injuries!

Anyway, a quick glance at this thread is all they need. The collective minds of WanderersWays have narrowed it down to 80 odd factors. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

17 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Is there a prize for listing them?

I've got the first 7:

Orient (Vic - thanks keeper), Reading (Sheehan & Dempsey), Crawley (Dempsey), Northampton (Toal), Stevenage (Santos & McAtee).

If there are 2 more is Lolos v Posh one of them?

Struggling with the last one.

Sheehan has scored 2 direct from free kicks.

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Sheehan has scored 2 direct from free kicks.

Are we counting cups? I've only looked at league but I could be wrong.