As suggested by @Johnnyrotten splitting this off from the transfer chat as a place for formation nerds like me to discuss tactics.

@wanderer1984 I agree 343 is a really weird formation. Off the top of my head I can only think of 2 teams playing it successfully in the last 20ish years - Brazil 2002 and Chelsea under Conte.

Brazil 2002 had Cafu and Roberto Carlos as the wing backs.... And a front 3 that was ridiculous, so don't really work as a comparison to any other team.

However Chelsea under Conte is interesting. The 3 at the back helped to not expose David Luiz when he'd invariably wander. And the wing backs were completely different, Alonso was previously a full back, and Moses previously a winger. And Chelsea would play Azpilicueta at RCB to cover Moses.

So @Rival Son I'm not sure we need 2 primarily attacking wing backs to make it work. Schon as more attacking and Cogley more defensive could be fine.

The bit we are missing is in midfield though. Both those teams had pure enforcers in the centre. Chelsea had Matic and Kanye, and Brazil had Gilberto Silva and Kleberson (more a hard worker but not a ball player definitely). This is where we seem way off it with Thomason and Sheehan. I like both but they're not enforcers.

Without Charles, there's no press. What we actually need in another striker to play with Charles who will press.

Otherwise opposition teams can (and do) wander into our half with the ball and either play a straight ball down the middle that we don't seen able to deal with or they play it in behind our wing backs into clear space, meaning that a centre half has to go wide to cover, doesn't stop the cross and we're a man short in the box.

Every fucking week.

3 minutes ago, Traf said:

Without Charles, there's no press. What we actually need in another striker to play with Charles who will press.

Otherwise opposition teams can (and do) wander into our half with the ball and either play a straight ball down the middle that we don't seen able to deal with or they play it in behind our wing backs into clear space, meaning that a centre half has to go wide to cover, doesn't stop the cross and we're a man short in the box.

Every fucking week.

It’s relentless isn’t it?

Seeing as I’m on the let’s dream and pretend thread, what we need is a L1 SKD 

What we need is a Rioch.

3 minutes ago, desperado said:

It’s relentless isn’t it?

Seeing as I’m on the let’s dream and pretend thread, what we need is a L1 SKD 

But how come we can see it and the management can't?

As for a League 1 Kevin Davies, there are plenty of that type of player in this league, every other team seems to have least one very mobile yet physical presser.

14 minutes ago, Traf said:

But how come we can see it and the management can't?

As for a League 1 Kevin Davies, there are plenty of that type of player in this league, every other team seems to have least one very mobile yet physical presser.

If things go quiet on the holiday front and I fancy a change of scenery, how about it mate, dream management team? 😂

54 minutes ago, Traf said:

Without Charles, there's no press. What we actually need in another striker to play with Charles who will press.

Otherwise opposition teams can (and do) wander into our half with the ball and either play a straight ball down the middle that we don't seen able to deal with or they play it in behind our wing backs into clear space, meaning that a centre half has to go wide to cover, doesn't stop the cross and we're a man short in the box.

Every fucking week.

Yep, our press is almost non-existent without him. And even then he's doing it on his own.

47 minutes ago, desperado said:

If things go quiet on the holiday front and I fancy a change of scenery, how about it mate, dream management team? 😂

That might be sooner than I hoped for, if trade doesn't pick up!

Collins and Charles pairing, has he ever actually tried it for more than a match at a time?

Actually admit that Mcatee was a bad signing for us (I quite like Mcatee btw). 

6 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Didn't Evatt say that he's recruited for this style and didn't have the players to act differently ?

I think he's wrong tbh. There are some good players here we just aren't using them properly. We DO lack the bastard midfielder and a capable bigger striker. But that's all really.

I'm agreeing with what you're saying, valid points, I'd also say we lack a left back too. 

We had 2 last season (Iredale and Ashworth, without including the more attack minded Ogbeta) and we chose to get rid.  Not saying they were perfect, but 100% they were better defensively than what we're left with, another eg of us becoming weaker in yet another position.

I'd say we also lack a right winger but maybe Tutu can do that, we'll only find out under a different manager.

3 hours ago, desperado said:

It’s relentless isn’t it?

Seeing as I’m on the let’s dream and pretend thread, what we need is a L1 SKD 

I think Wrexham have got them all. 

3 hours ago, Traf said:

Without Charles, there's no press. What we actually need in another striker to play with Charles who will press.

Otherwise opposition teams can (and do) wander into our half with the ball and either play a straight ball down the middle that we don't seen able to deal with or they play it in behind our wing backs into clear space, meaning that a centre half has to go wide to cover, doesn't stop the cross and we're a man short in the box.

Every fucking week.

I’d love a KD in this team. Someone that’s just going absolutely hound opposition defenders. 

45 minutes ago, bwfc6ix said:

I’d love a KD in this team. Someone that’s just going absolutely hound opposition defenders. 

Just a Gary Madine got Bolton out of the 3rd Division under Parky

4 minutes ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

Just a Gary Madine got Bolton out of the 3rd Division under Parky

Together with a number of players with experience of playing in leagues above.

We gift goals at the back. Last time we got out of this division we had Wheater and Beevers - solid at this level and weighed in with double figures in goals between them.

Edited January 12, 20251 yr by Dennis Peacock

2 hours ago, only1swanny said:

Collins and Charles pairing, has he ever actually tried it for more than a match at a time?

Actually admit that Mcatee was a bad signing for us (I quite like Mcatee btw). 

I spent most of the game yesterday thinking McAtee was shitter and shitter, and he’s not got much from previous games to change that view…

then we actually played some quick football going forward, played him in as he made a decent run and he slotted a great finish past the keeper.

I’m not making a decision on him until he’s played under a new manager in a team that isn’t completely broken. There’s something in there (he scored 15 for Barnsley last season!) I just don’t think anyone has a chance to show their best at the moment.

Oh and he’s a striker, he’s not a 10, he’s not the top of a ‘box’ midfield, he’s a striker. 

5 hours ago, Traf said:

Without Charles, there's no press. What we actually need in another striker to play with Charles who will press.

Otherwise opposition teams can (and do) wander into our half with the ball and either play a straight ball down the middle that we don't seen able to deal with or they play it in behind our wing backs into clear space, meaning that a centre half has to go wide to cover, doesn't stop the cross and we're a man short in the box.

Every fucking week.

Think I said somewhere a week or two back, one of the main areas where we've regressed over the last year has been the 'defending from the front' Evatt took pride in when we had Charles and Kachunga up there. Collins and McAtee are bone idle and make it a doddle for opponents to get out and at our short-handed midfield. 

McAtee is one of those clever sorts who makes a show of looking busy for a few minutes here and there but over half a game does fuck all, while Collins doesn't even bother with the pretence. 

They are two of way too many in our squad who need others to do the donkey work for them, when we haven't actually got any such players

28 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Oh and he’s a striker, he’s not a 10, he’s not the top of a ‘box’ midfield, he’s a striker. 

Glad someone knows his actual position 

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Together with a number of players with experience of playing in leagues above.

This is exactly what we're missing. Most of our players are playing at the highest level they've played in front of the biggest crowd they've experienced. Yet for some reason our recruitment has changed the last 2 seasons to trying to get all the "best" league 1 players (Randall being the latest example).

Compare that with the Parky team, we had higher league experience all over the park. 

Imagine the field day that Parky team would have against this current Evatt team.

3 minutes ago, Stig said:

This is exactly what we're missing. Most of our players are playing at the highest level they've played in front of the biggest crowd they've experienced. Yet for some reason our recruitment has changed the last 2 seasons to trying to get all the "best" league 1 players (Randall being the latest example).

Compare that with the Parky team, we had higher league experience all over the park. 

Imagine the field day that Parky team would have against this current Evatt team.

4-0, Wheater 2, Beevers 2

34 minutes ago, Stig said:

This is exactly what we're missing. Most of our players are playing at the highest level they've played in front of the biggest crowd they've experienced. Yet for some reason our recruitment has changed the last 2 seasons to trying to get all the "best" league 1 players (Randall being the latest example).

Compare that with the Parky team, we had higher league experience all over the park. 

Imagine the field day that Parky team would have against this current Evatt team.

I think this is where we need a bit of context before we decide that every decision that’s been made in these last 12/18 months has been a poor one.

Personally when I first heard that to progress we were moving away from relying on high quality loans, to sustainably trying to find permanent high quality players on longer contracts, I thought this was a progressive and sensible approach.

Ok we might not have ended up with the right number of high quality signings, and most certainly we haven’t got the right balance of the type of players needed, but I can see why we went the way we did.

And I think the Parky promotion team comparison is unfair, as we already had players within the squad who already had championship experience and they were probably on championship wages (another nail in the financial demise coffin) and then some of those went on to refuse to play - wankers 

Edited January 12, 20251 yr by desperado

57 minutes ago, Stig said:

This is exactly what we're missing. Most of our players are playing at the highest level they've played in front of the biggest crowd they've experienced. Yet for some reason our recruitment has changed the last 2 seasons to trying to get all the "best" league 1 players (Randall being the latest example).

Compare that with the Parky team, we had higher league experience all over the park. 

Imagine the field day that Parky team would have against this current Evatt team.

Genuinely, in all the years in our history when we haven't been in the top division, have we ever had a squad so bereft of players capable of stepping upto the next division?  Or at least that have come from there and are at the back end of their career eg Kieran Lee and Cameron Jerome from last couple of years.  This lot (bar Baxter?) are all L1 players past, present and future at best, its a wierd unique situation not to have one stand out player.  Our relegation fodder teams in the 80s had the likes of Hartford, Borrows, Thompson, Cross, Allardyce, Neal, Whatmore that all played top division.  The lack of potential and/or higher league experience we have now is incredible, not one of them will have any expectation to play at a higher level, drifting along in L1 is as good as it will get, they will only go down when they leave us.

During that 2011/12 season part of the reason we went down is because we recruited from the league below. Players like Chris Eagles, Tyrone Mears, Robbie Blake, Darren Pratley just couldn't cut it in the Premier League. It never ends well when a manager starts spending millions on players that are either the same or worse than he's already recruited.

The way Evatt talks about football sounds a lot like how communists talk about the economy. Lots of talk of collective responsibility, a fixed rigid game plan, how changing the manager (Dear Leader) would do nothing.

Individual drive and flair being recruited for but being repressed once signed. No wonder players often get caught in possession they're terrified of the gulag of being forced to play with the kids (Sarcevic hinted this).

 

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Zog1 said:

The way Evatt talks about football sounds a lot like how communists talk about the economy. Lots of talk of collective responsibility, a fixed rigid game plan, how changing the manager (Dear Leader) would do nothing.

😁

36 minutes ago, Zog1 said:

During that 2011/12 season part of the reason we went down is because we recruited from the league below. Players like Chris Eagles, Tyrone Mears, Robbie Blake, Darren Pratley just couldn't cut it in the Premier League. It never ends well when a manager starts spending millions on players that are either the same or worse than he's already recruited.

The way Evatt talks about football sounds a lot like how communists talk about the economy. Lots of talk of collective responsibility, a fixed rigid game plan, how changing the manager (Dear Leader) would do nothing.

Individual drive and flair being recruited for but being repressed once signed. No wonder players often get caught in possession they're terrified of the gulag of being forced to play with the kids (Sarcevic hinted this).

 

 

 

 

What the fuck have I just read 🤪