One for the pessimists

[desperado]

2 hours ago, Ani said:

Please do not tell me anyone on here does not think we need a Plan B for away games ?

Or do we stick with 2 ineffective wingers ? 

I’m still unsure what the plan B is and whether the plan B is, or should be, vastly different from what we are doing at home.

The big difference between home and away performances has been a combination of scoring (not scoring) first and massive inconsistencies in individual performances, Simons tops the list here.

It will be interesting to see what happens when we do get that first away goal and whether with the same approach we can go on to win.

But, like SS said in his interview we can’t just rely on that, we need (a bit like we did in the Barnsley, Blackpool and Orient games) to be able to get back into games after we concede first too

I mentioned it in the other thread, but Bowyer, when questioned mid-week about changing their home form, was asked should he change his approach, he said no - we’ll approach it in the same way. Didn’t work out too bad for him yesterday.

Personally the Plan B should not involve 4-4-2 with two midfielders getting overrun.

[desperado]

As for the wingers again I’m not sure.

ACD probably had his poorest game yesterday.

But I think I’d still want to see them involved in our away games too.

Ideally ACD and Gale. I think they do enough defensively and are a great threat, home and away.

The problem yesterday was ACD being off form and Cissoko being ineffective, again. Forss didn’t work out there.

Plan B on Thursday can hopefully see us with Tutu on the left.

I hope Gale’s injury isn’t serious.

[Leyther_Matt]

There’s no way on earth that Cissoko should be anywhere near our strongest 11. Which, to me, suggests SS is falling in to the familiar trap of filling shirts within a system rather than trying to figure out which systems fits the best players.

That said, we’ve set our stall out on everything going through ACD so that looks like we’re sticking with wingers or we’ll end up with a repeat of the Afolayan situation. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 hours ago, Ani said:

Please do not tell me anyone on here does not think we need a Plan B for away games ?

Or do we stick with 2 ineffective wingers ? 
 

Even 4 3 3 with an extra body in midfield and Forss and ACD just off a front man ? 👨 Plan A is failing away from home or is it still too early in the season ? SS makes in game changes that IE would not to do so he some flexibility but the set up is just not working. 

 

That's the formation I'd like to see.

Or with Conway wide left, in our usual formation, and ACD in his usual position. 

Forss with Burstow.

 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

Whatever we do, we have to makes ourselves more solid

Start from there

[desperado]

So if we can’t win away at Burton, which game are we ever going to win again away? 😁

Football eh? Or should I say Bolton Wanderers.

Just why we should never get too despondent. 

That said, as we all know, we need to follow that up.

Back to back wins the next goal.

COYFWM 👏

Edited October 17, 2025 by desperado

[Ani]

22 minutes ago, desperado said:

So if we can’t win away at Burton, which game are we ever going to win again away? 😁

Football eh? Or should I say Bolton Wanderers.

Just why should should never get too despondent. 

That said, as we all know, we need to follow that up.

Back to back wins the next goal.

COYFWM 👏

If we had won at Burton and Northampton we would be top ! Played 3 games more than everyone else but still top. 

[desperado]

35 minutes ago, Ani said:

If we had won at Burton and Northampton we would be top ! Played 3 games more than everyone else but still top. 

Oh aye, can’t refute any of that!

My point was more about there’s always an easy “could be better” and/or negative angle when things aren’t going too well.

But never dismiss the unexpected, positive or sensational story when dealing in sport.

Anyway it’s one result, as I said on the Huddersfield thread, next target is the back to back wins, let’s make sure it’s not a damp squib, like it was after Wigan.

[desperado]

We’ve really addressed some of the concerning trends which were prevalent 3/4 weeks ago

- Getting an away win

- Back to back wins

- Block of games where we take a good points haul.

Prior to the Peterborough game I was laying out the need to get at least 8 points out of 12 to keep in the hunt.

So to get 9, with 6 of those points coming against Huddersfield and Cardiff is really pleasing and sets us up to really start making a promotion charge. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 hours ago, desperado said:

We’ve really addressed some of the concerning trends which were prevalent 3/4 weeks ago

- Getting an away win

- Back to back wins

- Block of games where we take a good points haul.

Prior to the Peterborough game I was laying out the need to get at least 8 points out of 12 to keep in the hunt.

So to get 9, with 6 of those points coming against Huddersfield and Cardiff is really pleasing and sets us up to really start making a promotion charge. 

Can't afford another slump though.

Bradford, Luton and Stevenage all on the horizon.

If we can avoid defeat to any of those, then yes, it sets us up nicely. 

Strangely, Bradford have kept only one clean sheet this season, so must give up chances.

Get our shooting boots on please.

[desperado]

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Can't afford another slump though.

Bradford, Luton and Stevenage all on the horizon.

If we can avoid defeat to any of those, then yes, it sets us up nicely. 

Strangely, Bradford have kept only one clean sheet this season, so must give up chances.

Get our shooting boots on please.

Oh yes, no denying it’s very much part one of the promotion charge with lots more required. But it at least allows the optimists some real evidence that those other worrying trends can be (and have been) put to bed.

As I predicted they might be 😊 

[Eddie]

20 minutes ago, desperado said:

Oh yes, no denying it’s very much part one of the promotion charge with lots more required. But it at least allows the optimists some real evidence that those other worrying trends can be (and have been) put to bed.

As I predicted they might be 😊 

The main one of these for me, from both a points but also enjoyment perspective, is our ability to now win the ‘big’ games.

Under Evatt, you could basically write off 8-12 games a season where we’d be lucky to scrape an average of 1 point per game. Under SS, I appreciate other things have been an issue but we’ve beaten Wigan twice, Huddersfield (and another under JD) and Cardiff.

You don’t have to write those points off anymore, we’re as likely to win those games as not and if we’re being honest, they’re the wins that actually get us properly excited after so many years in this league.

Bradford can turn up with 5,000 fans, Sarcevic and that twat Humphreys, I back us to turn them over - especially at home - whereas I’d have been dreading it last season.

[desperado]

22 minutes ago, Eddie said:

The main one of these for me, from both a points but also enjoyment perspective, is our ability to now win the ‘big’ games.

Under Evatt, you could basically write off 8-12 games a season where we’d be lucky to scrape an average of 1 point per game. Under SS, I appreciate other things have been an issue but we’ve beaten Wigan twice, Huddersfield (and another under JD) and Cardiff.

You don’t have to write those points off anymore, we’re as likely to win those games as not and if we’re being honest, they’re the wins that actually get us properly excited after so many years in this league.

Bradford can turn up with 5,000 fans, Sarcevic and that twat Humphreys, I back us to turn them over - especially at home - whereas I’d have been dreading it last season.

Reminds me of some of his Plymouth wins. Finding ways to win the big games. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

3 hours ago, desperado said:

Oh yes, no denying it’s very much part one of the promotion charge with lots more required. But it at least allows the optimists some real evidence that those other worrying trends can be (and have been) put to bed.

As I predicted they might be 😊 

Each to their own, but for me, they haven't yet been. 

Perhaps putting their 'jamas on, and brushing their teeth, but not tucked in.

 

[desperado]

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Each to their own, but for me, they haven't yet been. 

Perhaps putting their 'jamas on, and brushing their teeth, but not tucked in.

 

I’m finding it hard to see how we haven’t ticked these off

- We’ve won away ✅ 

- We’ve put back to back wins together ✅

- We’ve put a block of positive results together winning 3/4 ✅

All concerns which were aired a few weeks ago.

At no point am I saying that’s enough. I’m agreeing that these trends need to be continued.

But it’s factual to say that those things have been achieved.

Its subjective as to whether you feel optimistic that this puts us in the mix as promotion contenders - IMO it does 

[Zico]

32 minutes ago, desperado said:

I’m finding it hard to see how we haven’t ticked these off

- We’ve won away ✅ 

- We’ve put back to back wins together ✅

- We’ve put a block of positive results together winning 3/4 ✅

All concerns which were aired a few weeks ago.

At no point am I saying that’s enough. I’m agreeing that these trends need to be continued.

But it’s factual to say that those things have been achieved.

Its subjective as to whether you feel optimistic that this puts us in the mix as promotion contenders - IMO it does 

we've had some good home wins in terms of goals scored, but the one thing that still needs work (both home and away), as shown yesterday - 17 shots, 1 on target

if we can just get more on target and in, we'll be flying, we're obviously nearly there, but not quite

I'm certainly optimistic

got £143 on us to win the title, returns £1,641, already being offered cash out profit with £232.28

£207 to get promoted, returns £960, cash out £386.05

£300 on top 6, returns £675, cash out £406.04

[Stig]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

The main one of these for me, from both a points but also enjoyment perspective, is our ability to now win the ‘big’ games.

Under Evatt, you could basically write off 8-12 games a season where we’d be lucky to scrape an average of 1 point per game. Under SS, I appreciate other things have been an issue but we’ve beaten Wigan twice, Huddersfield (and another under JD) and Cardiff.

You don’t have to write those points off anymore, we’re as likely to win those games as not and if we’re being honest, they’re the wins that actually get us properly excited after so many years in this league.

Bradford can turn up with 5,000 fans, Sarcevic and that twat Humphreys, I back us to turn them over - especially at home - whereas I’d have been dreading it last season.

I'm a big Schumacher fan, but I think this is where some fans grumbles about SS come from. The highs are amazing, actually turning up to big games and local derbies and putting great performances in, to then have lows that are so bad and, crucially, unexpected, like losing to Burton. 

Under Evatt we'd almost written off a dozen games so the thumpings we got were already numbed and then Evatt was excellent at beating the dross at the bottom of the table, which felt like more routine wins. 

I'll take the current rollercoaster any day, but it would be great if SS could get some consistency in the "lesser" games.

[masi 51]

5 minutes ago, Stig said:

I'm a big Schumacher fan, but I think this is where some fans grumbles about SS come from. The highs are amazing, actually turning up to big games and local derbies and putting great performances in, to then have lows that are so bad and, crucially, unexpected, like losing to Burton. 

Under Evatt we'd almost written off a dozen games so the thumpings we got were already numbed and then Evatt was excellent at beating the dross at the bottom of the table, which felt like more routine wins. 

I'll take the current rollercoaster any day, but it would be great if SS could get some consistency in the "lesser" games.

I am also a big fan of both SS and Firino, but i think reinstating Toal has been a good move. We are certainly still a team that is learning his ways  and we  have a very young inexperienced team.

Burstow blows hot and cold but he is learning his trade.  ACD would be getting slaters on here if the games ended bang on 90mins.

We will get games like Burton simply because we are a team in transition. I am sure this team is only at 60/70% potential and will improve as the season goes along

[Johnnyrotten]

10 hours ago, desperado said:

We’ve really addressed some of the concerning trends which were prevalent 3/4 weeks ago

- Getting an away win

- Back to back wins

- Block of games where we take a good points haul.

Prior to the Peterborough game I was laying out the need to get at least 8 points out of 12 to keep in the hunt.

So to get 9, with 6 of those points coming against Huddersfield and Cardiff is really pleasing and sets us up to really start making a promotion charge. 

Taking away who the opposition were, we needed to win the last 2 to get back on reasonable par, post Northampton/Burton.  9 points from the last 5 games is OK (8 was never enough IMO with 2 at home and 3 winnable away) but the 4 top teams are basically on 2 points a game, from day one. 

After our poor start the target for me has to be 2 points a game from a winnable game like Northampton onwards.  Obviously if we beat Vale that puts that right for now, 12 from 6.

Agreed its great to tick off finally winning back to back games.  And the away win, tick!

Hopefully in the next month or so we can get an away clean sheet (I'd take a 2-1 win over a 0-0 all day long but you get my drift); and crucially for me, winning those games we were winning under IE - the aways at the small grounds, where there's no headline or glamour or raucous away following.  We've missed out on 3 of those where we won last year, the next 6 aways are at small, tight grounds and we need to start getting our share of wins.

One other on the wishlist, is to score first away.  Again, coming from behind is great, but its unsustainable, let's get ahead away from home and show we can defend a lead.  How do we play when we're defending a lead away?  Nobody knows yet 😀 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 hours ago, desperado said:

I’m finding it hard to see how we haven’t ticked these off

- We’ve won away ✅ 

- We’ve put back to back wins together ✅

- We’ve put a block of positive results together winning 3/4 ✅

All concerns which were aired a few weeks ago.

At no point am I saying that’s enough. I’m agreeing that these trends need to be continued.

But it’s factual to say that those things have been achieved.

Its subjective as to whether you feel optimistic that this puts us in the mix as promotion contenders - IMO it does 

We have also lost two away games prior to that with barely a whimper.

Two wins on the trott is a start, but is far from what we require to be genuine promotion contenders.

The away win is a start, but is far from what we require. 

We're 7th, with more games played than some above.

We are only three points off the top as things stand, but this little uptick is just that- we have to continue and make it a significant run of positive results to get us into a position that we need to be.

As earlier, positive results against those three strong teams and things will definitely be looking up.

[wakey]

10 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

We have also lost two away games prior to that with barely a whimper.

Two wins on the trott is a start, but is far from what we require to be genuine promotion contenders.

The away win is a start, but is far from what we require. 

We're 7th, with more games played than some above.

We are only three points off the top as things stand, but this little uptick is just that- we have to continue and make it a significant run of positive results to get us into a position that we need to be.

As earlier, positive results against those three strong teams and things will definitely be looking up.

you're definitely on the right topic thread 😁

Right, 23 points after 14 games puts us

- 1 point behind Jimmy Armfield's 73 champions

- 2 behind Parkinson's 17 team

- 7 ahead of Bruce's 93 side.

Bruce's lot went on to win 6 and draw 1 of their next 7 games. A run like that now would be nice.

[desperado]

So now we need some more targets to push to the next level

More shots on target

Consistency in the lesser games

2 points per game in a bigger chunk of games 

An away clean sheet

Scoring away first 

Defending a lead away

A “significant” run of positive results

I don’t disagree, just as long as folk arent searching for perfection. We are never going to get all things happening every game. 

Optimism eh @wakey 😂

[Rival Son]

1 hour ago, desperado said:

 

So now we need some more targets to push to the next level

More shots on target

Consistency in the lesser games

2 points per game in a bigger chunk of games 

An away clean sheet

Scoring away first 

Defending a lead away

A “significant” run of positive results

I don’t disagree, just as long as folk arent searching for perfection. We are never going to get all things happening every game. 

Optimism eh @wakey 😂

And recognising that -  no matter how good our defence is - the opposition will get some attempts on target, the keeper to save 2 in 3 (67%) of them, rather than the current 39.1%.

[desperado]

9 minutes ago, Rival Son said:

And recognising that -  no matter how good our defence is - the opposition will get some attempts on target, the keeper to save 2 in 3 (67%) of them, rather than the current 39.1%.

Oh yes forget about the keeper, add him to the list of must do better 😂👍

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, desperado said:

 

So now we need some more targets to push to the next level

More shots on target

Consistency in the lesser games

2 points per game in a bigger chunk of games 

An away clean sheet

Scoring away first 

Defending a lead away

A “significant” run of positive results

I don’t disagree, just as long as folk arent searching for perfection. We are never going to get all things happening every game. 

Optimism eh @wakey 😂

It seems like a long wish list, and as you say we aren't looking for perfection.  But I'll just settle for no.3 on the list and if that means we don't get any of the others so be it 😀 Eg win every home game, never take the lead or keep any clean sheets away, all score draws!