Big E Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 the prices and the location of the ground are the two main causes of discontent at the moment and neither of those are due to Sam. i have never understood this location business. its easier for many people to get to the reebok compared with burnden is it not?
Big E Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 Allardyce felt the need to apologise for yesterday's performance. I put to the general public, that if he hadn't had a pop at the fans last week, no apology would have happened this week. Secondly, after such poor showings against Liverpool, City and Boro already this month: why should the casual fan turn up for the forthcoming "glamour" fixtures v Charlton and Fulham? If I had attended our last three games at a cost of around ??100 plus travel expenses, I'd be very wary of shelling out more money until it looked like an improvement was going to happen. welcome to my world. i never thought i would say it but even i am starting to wonder if it is worth the money and time now.
Big E Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 The club lost the right to week in week out never ending dying support when they decided we were customers and not fans. all football supporters are now customers though. i agree with a post a little further up this thread the football bubble is about to burst. i dont think it will stay being mega bucks for long. people will drop off and there will be 4 - 8 massive clubs who will eventually go off into european leagues and leave football for the rest of us to enjoy
MopHead Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 Mop, Because of how incredibly well Sam has done on the pitch does that make him immune from any criticism ? serious question . No i don't believe he is immune to criticism. I got involved in this because the thread was called 'Sack Sam' and then the 'could've been a legend' remark set me off. I felt this was a little more than criticism and was almost questioning his achievements with us. Now if people want to criticise him fair enough because as supporters of BWFC I feel we all have the right to do this as this is our club. I was simply defending him because, in my opinion, he's the best thing thats happened to our club in living memory. I don't think he decides how much tickets cost, i don't think he played any part in deciding to leave Burnden or where the Reebok was to be situated, i don't think he decides what time kick offs are going to be and I don't think he tells them thugs in orange jackets how to behave. What i do think is that he has our clubs best interest at heart and is passionate about it, he has made us into a top 10 premier league side and a side that is feared by almost all the other teams. So why shouldn't he comment on our lack of support? Are we as BWFC supporters immune from any criticism?
Burndens Bogs Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 (edited) Are we as BWFC supporters immune from any criticism? A small "hardcore" group of Wanderers fans have spent a lot of money following the Whites for years,a fair percentage of that hardcore come on here, and (quite rightly imo) they don't like their loyalty or commitment being questioned by a bloke who earns millions, when they have spent thousands of their hard earned dosh following us in the lower reaches and abroad. For what it's worth i do think a lot of people take SA for granted,and won't realise how good he is - till he's gone. Edited January 22, 2007 by Burndens Bogs
Smiffs Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 Now if people want to criticise him fair enough because as supporters of BWFC I feel we all have the right to do this as this is our club. I was simply defending him because, in my opinion, he's the best thing thats happened to our club in living memory. He's not wrong you know. But it does not give him the right to slag off the fans. I have a wife, but it does not mean that she is my property and I can do or say to her what I wish. More's the pity. I don't think he decides how much tickets cost, i don't think he played any part in deciding to leave Burnden or where the Reebok was to be situated, i don't think he decides what time kick offs are going to be and I don't think he tells them thugs in orange jackets how to behave. So why shouldn't he comment on our lack of support? Because as you correctly point out, he has no control over these issues nor concept of the affects they have, he should either keep quiet or have a go about the situation as a whole. Its one or the other. And until he makes public steps to resolve the reasons WHY folk are not going then his public complaints won't get much sympathy from me.
exiledwhite2 Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 He's not wrong you know. But it does not give him the right to slag off the fans. I have a wife, but it does not mean that she is my property and I can do or say to her what I wish. More's the pity. Because as you correctly point out, he has no control over these issues nor concept of the affects they have, he should either keep quiet or have a go about the situation as a whole. Its one or the other. And until he makes public steps to resolve the reasons WHY folk are not going then his public complaints won't get much sympathy from me. Indeed. The question from football managers / chairmen etc (and it's not just BWFC) often goes 'what will it take to get the people of the town to come and support us' But the question is rhetoric, they don't actually want to hear the answers !! They'd only have to read this board to get a good picture of what people want...but they clearly mean 'why don't people come and watch ON OUR TERMS - and our terms alone'. Any other type of company would be bankrupt by now if it took this attitude to it's 'customers'. Clubs call themselves businesses but they don't behave like them.
Guest Biff Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 A small "hardcore" group of Wanderers fans have spent a lot of money following the Whites for years,a fair percentage of that hardcore come on here, and (quite rightly imo) they don't like their loyalty or commitment being questioned by a bloke who earns millions, when they have spent thousands of their hard earned dosh following us in the lower reaches and abroad. For what it's worth i do think a lot of people take SA for granted,and won't realise how good he is - till he's gone. Sam is not having a go at this "hardcore" group of fans who have spent a lot of money following Bolton so why do they think their loyalty and commitment is being questioned. Sam is actually wondering why the people who don't go are not going. Football has never been run as a business. When it was local businessmen who were football club directors, it was always said that if they ran their businesses as they run their football clubs they would all be bankrupt. Fans, supporters, customers, so what. Customers is the latest buzzword. Rail and bus passengers are now customers.
Carlos Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 For what it's worth i do think a lot of people take SA for granted,and won't realise how good he is - till he's gone. This has got to be the most over used cliche on WW ever, I'm fcuked if I know why people keep wheeling it out on almost a daily basis whenever Sam has come in for a bit of stick. It's ragging obvious that we will miss him when he's gone, EVERYONE knows that, NOBODY has ever question that. The next person to raise this point is a Lucky Pierre.
Smiffs Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 Sam is not having a go at this "hardcore" group of fans who have spent a lot of money following Bolton so why do they think their loyalty and commitment is being questioned. Sam is actually wondering why the people who don't go are not going. So why not ask, listen, and then do something about it? A fiver a ticket for Charlton isnt the answer, it is more long term than that. Didn't the club have a sit down with folk off here but didn't like what they heard so did f??ck all?
Burndens Bogs Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 This has got to be the most over used cliche on WW ever, I'm fcuked if I know why people keep wheeling it out on almost a daily basis whenever Sam has come in for a bit of stick. It's ragging obvious that we will miss him when he's gone, EVERYONE knows that, NOBODY has ever question that. The next person to raise this point is a Lucky Pierre. Time of month for you then?
no balls Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 Didn't the club have a sit down with folk off here but didn't like what they heard so did f??ck all? Correct. Hence my much slated cynicism, Mr. Smiffs.
SatanGreavsie Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 Sam is not having a go at this "hardcore" group of fans who have spent a lot of money following Bolton so why do they think their loyalty and commitment is being questioned. Sam is actually wondering why the people who don't go are not going. aye, but the key point is that even "hardcore" supporters are getting selective nowadays (and I would include ST holders in that as I'm damn sure many of the empty seats are ST holders who simply can't be arsed with that particular match. Of course the club still has the money from them, but no contribution to the support on the day). This is what football in general has got to address. It's dined out on the "I'm a hardcore fans therefore I get to as many game as I can" ticket for far too long. Fact is that now people are starting to twig that it's possible to consider yourself a major fan, to consider the game and the club to be a major part of your time and a major commitment - and yet still fall well short of 100% attendance. Oh and the "ignorant and naive" comment he made was clearly aimed at all and sundry, irrespective of time and effort they put into following the club.
Ani Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 aye, but the key point is that even "hardcore" supporters are getting selective nowadays (and I would include ST holders in that as I'm damn sure many of the empty seats are ST holders who simply can't be arsed with that particular match. Of course the club still has the money from them, but no contribution to the support on the day). This is what football in general has got to address. It's dined out on the "I'm a hardcore fans therefore I get to as many game as I can" ticket for far too long. Fact is that now people are starting to twig that it's possible to consider yourself a major fan, to consider the game and the club to be a major part of your time and a major commitment - and yet still fall well short of 100% attendance.Oh and the "ignorant and naive" comment he made was clearly aimed at all and sundry, irrespective of time and effort they put into following the club. in addition these days given the prices it is worth a season ticket holder who can not make a game letting someone else use their ticket. i know if i can nt make a game my ticket normally gets used, night games are a pain in the arse for me because of work, so miss a lot of them especiall if liek chelsea on the box. strangely i do want to come over for the charlton game as it is one of a run of three with fulham and watford away that will go along way to defining our run in, win them and things will be very rosey. pick up 4 points or less and we will be beck in the pack that are are chasing the chasing pack.
Big E Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 So why not ask, listen, and then do something about it? A fiver a ticket for Charlton isnt the answer, it is more long term than that. Didn't the club have a sit down with folk off here but didn't like what they heard so did f??ck all? why bother asking if the response is going to be "its because we moved to horwich" which seems to be a massive reason on here. so its out of town. it is one of the best stadiums in the league and we should be proud of it. i agree about the fiver a ticket not being the solution but it is a start.
Traf Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 Didn't the club have a sit down with folk off here but didn't like what they heard so did f??ck all? I was involved in those meetings and this is what happened: The guy we presented our requests to: either told us the club wouldn't consider for a number of petty and unfounded reasons or he didn't even ask, because he thought they'd say no. The club tried to make out they were interested, but actually came across as being even more arrogant and pig ignorant than ever. Our contact comes on here occasionally: his user name is Needers: WHY NOT PM HIM WITH YOUR CONCERNS?
Smiffs Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 why bother asking if the response is going to be "its because we moved to horwich" which seems to be a massive reason on here. so its out of town. it is one of the best stadiums in the league and we should be proud of it. i agree about the fiver a ticket not being the solution but it is a start. it is a reason and one that cannot be changed. the ticket prices, standard of football, atmosphere,treatment of fans, attitude of the orange warriors, piss poor catering, piss poor non english speaking staff, etc etc CAN be changed if they were interested.
Big E Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 it is a reason and one that cannot be changed. the ticket prices, standard of football, atmosphere,treatment of fans, attitude of the orange warriors, piss poor catering, piss poor non english speaking staff, etc etc CAN be changed if they were interested. most people i know would find it harder to get to burnden than the reebok. surely a lot of fans have found this. i agree with all the other points. in fact i spotted two staff who work in the east lower when at the besiktas game
Zozzy Posted January 27, 2007 Posted January 27, 2007 A small "hardcore" group of Wanderers fans have spent a lot of money following the Whites for years,a fair percentage of that hardcore come on here, and (quite rightly imo) they don't like their loyalty or commitment being questioned by a bloke who earns millions, when they have spent thousands of their hard earned dosh following us in the lower reaches and abroad. For what it's worth i do think a lot of people take SA for granted,and won't realise how good he is - till he's gone. The small "hardcore" group of Wanderers fans aren't offended by what Big Sam said, why should they be? I agree with your last point that....."a lot of people take SA for granted,and won't realise how good he is - till he's gone."
Ani Posted January 27, 2007 Posted January 27, 2007 The small "hardcore" group of Wanderers fans aren't offended by what Big Sam said, why should they be?I agree with your last point that....."a lot of people take SA for granted,and won't realise how good he is - till he's gone." zozzy, i have spent a small fortune watching bolton over the years and i am offended by some of sams recent comments. not sure if i am not part of the 'hardcore' because i now go to less games than i used to and did nt go to turkey, i do not pretend to represent any ones views other than my own. do i want him to go ? of course i do nt, i think he is the best thing that has happened to the club in my life time. i do not take him for granted he wont be here for ever and we will miss him when he goes. but he is not beyond criticism when he blames fans for the teams performance against city. he pissed me off with his team selection in bulgaria which worked out for him it piseed me off when he made per take a penalty instead of deano in a game, he does make mistakes his overall record is superb but he aint perfect and when he gets something wrong should that just be ignored ?
Carlos Posted January 27, 2007 Posted January 27, 2007 I agree with your last point that....."a lot of people take SA for granted,and won't realise how good he is - till he's gone." Zozz, you can have the entire contents of my bank accounts if you can find someone who doesn't agree with that statement. It's a totally banal point to make, I'm embarrassed for people making it. It's got to stop and stop now.
Burndens Bogs Posted January 27, 2007 Posted January 27, 2007 Zozz, you can have the entire contents of my bank accounts if you can find someone who doesn't agree with that statement. It's a totally banal point to make, I'm embarrassed for people making it. It's got to stop and stop now. Absolute shite Carlos, you'd be suprised how many people don't like BSA and want him to fcuk off. I'm not one of 'em, you're obviously not one of 'em - and most of this board aren't, but there are a lot of numpty Wanderers fans who want him gone, THATS who the "banal" statement was aimed at.
Ani Posted January 28, 2007 Posted January 28, 2007 i do not know one bolton fan who wants sam to go. i know a lot of bolton fans who think he is the best thing that club has going for it. i know a lot of bolton fans who still think the club is bigger than one man. i know a few people have forgotten this fact. i know one bolton who started this thread as a wind up. i know one bolton who is drunk and may edit this post tomorrow.
Traf Posted January 28, 2007 Posted January 28, 2007 "a lot of people take SA for granted,and won't realise how good he is - till he's gone." They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
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