And truth to be revealed on Wednesday

 

 

Will this settle it?

Can open

 

Worms everywhere

That's the thing, what did happen? Were people directed to the wrong sections so some parts were empty? Or were all parts full?

 

No one will ever admit to jibbing in there, hows about they count how many people were in Leppings Lane end and how many tickets were sold. They should be the same, yes?

 

If not, and thousands of people steamed in, crushing the most vunerable at the front, how did they get there?

 

Interview people who ran coaches, get facts. Blame the police if they forced people from Liverpool into that end, people who didn't want to go to the game but mysteriously happened to be in Sheffield that afternoon, just passing like.

Reading a bit ont guardian looks like they are gonna be blaming the police for a cover up and changing statements etc.

 

 

Some QC is offering free legal advice as well. Gonna be compo crazy int next few years I reckon.

Reading a bit ont guardian looks like they are gonna be blaming the police for a cover up and changing statements etc.

 

 

Some QC is offering free legal advice as well. Gonna be compo crazy int next few years I reckon.

 

So no blame on the ticketless fans then?

 

When they say justice, what they really mean is, just don't blame them at all.

When all this case was re-opened, there was an interview on radio 5 I think with one of the mothers of someone who died that day who also worked for one of the campaign groups. She came across quite well, saying the inquiry should see all unredacted evidence etc. all reasonable I thought.

 

Then the presenter read out a text from a listener who mentioned ticketless fans and she flew into a rage saying anyone who believed that a Liverpool fan had played any part in the tradegy had been brainwashed by the sun's coverage and didn't know what they were taking about. All creditibIlity went out the window.

 

I spent two years at uni in Sheffield at a time when an inquest was first mentioned. The locals take on events is a lot different than the scousers

There have only been seven Anglican Bishops of Liverpool. At least 2 played first-class cricket (Sheppard was a test batsman and captained England twice), and another (Chavasse) was the first father of identical twins to compete together for Great Britain in the Olympics (London 1908, 400m). So eminently fair to have the current incumbent chairing the Independent inquiry(!).

 

I can't find any sporting link for him, but he did his PGCE at Alsager (which was a PE Wing college - though he seems to have been on the drama wing), and taught at Sevenoaks when Chris Tavare starred in the cricket team, so maybe he was the tram chaplain?

 

The role of gatecrashing fans, whether drunk or not, is obvious - the moreso because Liverpool had had the same end against the same opponents the previous season, and maybe had the opportunity to recce the joint. It can be understated, but surely not unstated?

 

The police failure on the day defied belief (see pictures of Scouce youths using makeshift stretchers while the police stood and sat back in disbelief at the scale of the tragedy. The subsequent covering up of police failures has always been a key issue. And the farce of the inquest refusing to consider evidence arising after 3.15pm is another institutional failure.

 

So it will be interesting to see what will happen if the whole truth can ever come out, because while the crushed fans were clearly innocent victims, some of those crushing were not innocent and not victims.

 

But the

That's the thing, what did happen? Were people directed to the wrong sections so some parts were empty? Or were all parts full?

 

No one will ever admit to jibbing in there, hows about they count how many people were in Leppings Lane end and how many tickets were sold. They should be the same, yes?

 

U not, and thousands of people steamed in, crushing the most vunerable at the front, how did they get there?

 

Interview people who ran coaches, get facts. Blame the police if they forced people from Liverpool into that end, people who didn't want to go to the game but mysteriously happened to be in Sheffield that afternoon, just passing like.

 

A lot of your questions are answered in the Taylor Report. I have read it online this afternoon and have more sympathy for the Scousers than I ever had before.

I have a lot of sympathy for those who perished and the families they left behind. The truly sad thing is those poor souls who never went home were the ones who had paid for their tickets and had got to the ground in good time.

 

I dont think anyone doubts the South Yorkshire police force made huge, huge and, literally, fatal errors.

 

I am though utterly appalled that those ticketless fans who added to the situation can claim not to have any blood on their hands.

 

I just hope these documents do tell the whole truth, no matter how controversial they may be.

 

Ultimately, 96 people did die who shouldn't have and the truth behind their deaths needs to become public knowledge so this sad story can finally be put to rest.

I have a lot of sympathy for those who perished and the families they left behind. The truly sad thing is those poor souls who never went home were the ones who had paid for their tickets and had got to the ground in good time.

 

I dont think anyone doubts the South Yorkshire police force made huge, huge and, literally, fatal errors.

 

I am though utterly appalled that those ticketless fans who added to the situation can claim not to have any blood on their hands.

 

I just hope these documents do tell the whole truth, no matter how controversial they may be.

 

Ultimately, 96 people did die who shouldn't have and the truth behind their deaths needs to become public knowledge so this sad story can finally be put to rest.

 

Spot on sir, another annoying thing is that they clearly dont fucking learn they are just chancers by nature. Athens anyone?

The Express has got a good article on it. says files from 80 organisations incl police,ambulance and what they're saying is crucially,the secret briefing papers prepared for maggie thatcher in the hours and days after the disaster,are being released. the cabinet office papers from 1989 handed to maggie soon after the tragedy say a senoir merseyside police officer actually blames the pissed up scousers. another one,the then merseyside chief constable sir kenneth oxford also thought the ticketless fans was a major factor.

 

whatever happens,there's going to a lot of shit flying about,but the perennial minutes' silence champions will continue their fight to have the verdicts of accidental death changed to unlawfully killed.

the victims being in their position early and before the hordes of ticketless people arrived were effectively unlawfully killed in the eyes of the law,but by whom is a different matter

Duckinfield is to blame for opening the gates and not shutting the tunnel.

Fans ARE to blame for rushing in (however i would have gone through an open gate if i didn't have a tkt for a cup semi final)

Duckinfield would argue he was in impossible position fearing a crush outside the ground.

 

Who caused that? Organisation, infrastructure and fans

We were talking about it at work today, and as JJ says, wrong call to open the gates but if he hadn't, would the disaster have happened at the gates instead?

Would it bollocks

 

All thoses polite, well mannered, salt of the earth scousers would have turned around and gone to the pub to have a jolly friendly knees up.

thay are intviewing some right ugly scouse on sky at the min live

 

is face looks like he has the plage

Whatever the outcome in all of this, there will never be any winners, I just hope the scousers accept the findings and move on after today. They won't though unless theres bucket loads of compo going their way

Are they reporting findings or just releasing files? Files just being accounts from police etc.? There isn't any new investigation is there?

 

It's all from after the event to take the blame away from themselves. The Bishop of Liverpool as the head of an independent board, you couldn't script it. Who else is on it, Stan Boardman, Cilla Black and Ken Dodd?

 

You can't get away from the fact if that end held say 10,000 and 10,000 people turned up in an orderly fashion, then the police wouldn't have had any problems. Those without tickets are to blame.

I think the release of information will be a pre cursor to a new investigation.

 

There is middle ground between the Suns headlines and the Polices decisions. What I do know first hand is that after the minor strikes in that part of the world the police were fookin evil cunts. They treated football fans with utter contempt, not like animals much worse. They looked after their own at the time and since so anything coming their way is long overdue IMO.

No one gives The Sun's headlines any credibility, no one gives the police any rea credilbility and no one gives some aggressive Scouser proclaiming "it wasn't us what done it" any credibility.

 

Stadia weren't safe, cages weren't safe, ACAB.

 

All the same, in the modern era with an all ticket game, only supporters with tickets should have been there. This is what differentiates it from Burnden.

No one in their right mind can't help but have sympathy for those who lost family in this. It's something any of us who went to the footie in the fence era can relate to. It could have been one of us or someone we knew at any grounds. Sooner they get the truth, the better.

 

The aftermath of all this is likely to be really messy though. Be interesting to see how Cameron words his 'apology' today, as the next step will likely be (as mentioned above) a new enquiry, specific blame and of course, compensation claims. I bet some lawyers are already rubbing their hands together on this one.

 

Which is why the government might be a bit cagey about it all - they know this could lead to long court cases and huge payouts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19570810

can't wait for Diddles to get involved on this thread

so

1. ground was unsafe - yup we knew this.

2. emergency services were slow - knew this too, health and safety just didnt exist.

3. statements were changed by police - disgusting, fair play to the families for pushing with this.

4. fans were not to blame at all - sorry not having this what-so-ever. anyone whos been to a footballer match, especially back then, knows its a free for all and basically last man standing.

 

i missed the part about the letting the fans through the gates, and whether it should or shouldnt have happened.

so

1. ground was unsafe - yup we knew this.

2. emergency services were slow - knew this too, health and safety just didnt exist.

3. statements were changed by police - disgusting, fair play to the families for pushing with this.

4. fans were not to blame at all - sorry not having this what-so-ever. anyone whos been to a footballer match, especially back then, knows its a free for all and basically last man standing.

 

i missed the part about the letting the fans through the gates, and whether it should or shouldnt have happened.

 

I've just watched it too and can't understand why this wasn't mentioned. Will this now be ignored?

It was to find out if there was a cover up, and there was. as now proved......statements were changed by police ffs !!!

 

They took blood from the dead, even kids to try and create some sort of 'Proof' that it was their own fault.

 

Like scousers or not, that is dusgusting !!!!