September 13, 201213 yr Why are the fans to blame? Mentioned on here serious issues at previous games. State of grounds at the time meant something was going to happen eventually. As for twitter comments they are idiots people discussing this given none of us have read the report and wondering what else might be mentioned is natural. Strange that the independent inquiry was chaired by bishop of Liverpool surely too close to be independent.
September 13, 201213 yr Strange that the independent inquiry was chaired bishop of Liverpool surely too close to be independent. He's probably an Everton fan
September 13, 201213 yr Why are the fans to blame? Mentioned on here serious issues at previous games. State of grounds at the time meant something was going to happen eventually. As for twitter comments they are idiots people discussing this given none of us have read the report and wondering what else might be mentioned is natural. Strange that the independent inquiry was chaired by bishop of Liverpool surely too close TO ALL THE CHILDEN.
September 13, 201213 yr Why are the fans to blame? Mentioned on here serious issues at previous games. State of grounds at the time meant something was going to happen eventually. As for twitter comments they are idiots people discussing this given none of us have read the report and wondering what else might be mentioned is natural. Strange that the independent inquiry was chaired by bishop of Liverpool surely too close to be independent.
September 13, 201213 yr Put it this way - if someone breaks into a house are the police solely to blame? does the burglar not have any responsibility anymore? Not saying the conduct of the authorities was acceptable but it seems everyone doesn't want to admit that those cheeky little chappies who illegally broke into the ground are blameless
September 13, 201213 yr After reading this thread in full, a few posters have defo got egg all over their face! "But some of those fans are to blame" blah blah blah.Grow up and admit you got it wrong FFS! Dont people not realise we had a similar disaster of our own at Burnden Park.Was that the fans fault as well?
September 13, 201213 yr No egg on my face, mate. Yet I still maintain that the fans weren't 100% blame-free that day. I can't comment on the Burnden disaster as I wasn't at that one, but I know what me and my dad saw at Hillsborough.
September 13, 201213 yr After reading this thread in full, a few posters have defo got egg all over their face! "But some of those fans are to blame" blah blah blah.Grow up and admit you got it wrong FFS! Dont people not realise we had a similar disaster of our own at Burnden Park.Was that the fans fault as well? So you don't accept that any Liverpool fan had anything to do with causing this tragedy at all? I think it may be you who needs to grow up. Double negatives in your last sentence a definite no-no as well.
September 13, 201213 yr egg on face???? what a crock of shite. i do admit, the scousers were right is persuing the 'truth' and the have been given raw deal by a lot of people (including myself) in terms of health and safety and emergency services, i think we have learned and improvement massively from that day. you could almost argue, that the deaths were not in vein. and i mean that in the most sensitive way possible. that aside, there has to be criminal prosecution against the police. i wish the scousers every success in that. this part was disgusting beyond belief. but my OPINION still stands, fans who turned up without tickets and forced their way in were also part of the problem. theres been a lot of focus on alchol and checking criminal record but what about the just whether a section of fans were complete dickheads, how to you even test for that? Edited September 13, 201213 yr by HomerJay
September 13, 201213 yr “@everton_tony: Please RETWEET this. @OfficialBWFC to take action against these disgusting posters: http://t.co/7ZaQdmZJ #JFT96 RT Don't get this as most of the thread has been a pretty serious debate.
September 13, 201213 yr After reading this thread in full, a few posters have defo got egg all over their face! "But some of those fans are to blame" blah blah blah.Grow up and admit you got it wrong FFS! Dont people not realise we had a similar disaster of our own at Burnden Park.Was that the fans fault as well? Well said Sir Francis. Some of the shite posted on here on this subject over the years has been ridiculous. Delighted for the families just gutted it took them 23 years of fighting ignorance & prejudice to get there.
September 13, 201213 yr “@everton_tony: Please RETWEET this. @OfficialBWFC to take action against these disgusting posters: http://t.co/7ZaQdmZJ #JFT96 RT Don't get this as most of the thread has been a pretty serious debate. its at time like this we need a headbanging smiley
September 13, 201213 yr egg on face???? what a crock of shite. i do admit, the scousers were right is persuing the 'truth' and the have been given raw deal by a lot of people (including myself) in terms of health and safety and emergency services, i think we have learned and improvement massively from that day. you could almost argue, that the deaths were not in vein. and i mean that in the most sensitive way possible. that aside, there has to be criminal prosecution against the police. i wish the scousers every success in that. this part was disgusting beyond belief. but my OPINION still stands, fans who turned up without tickets and forced their way in were also part of the problem. theres been a lot of focus on alchol and checking criminal record but what about the just whether a section of fans were complete dickheads, how to you even test for that? spot on DAVE
September 13, 201213 yr Put it this way - if someone breaks into a house are the police solely to blame? does the burglar not have any responsibility anymore? Not saying the conduct of the authorities was acceptable but it seems everyone doesn't want to admit that those cheeky little chappies who illegally broke into the ground are blameless So if you live in a house your house gets robbed is that your fault ? Or do you blame the burgalers ? The fact is that a small minority of fans may have contributed ot the events on the day the vast majority did nt but people just use the catch all term of 'fans'. It may not seem important but fans died on the day and then saying fans are to blame is saying the ones who died are culpable. There were reports at the time of loads of Liverpool coaches being stopped by the police on the way down and this why people were late turning up, not sure how much truth in those stories but anyone who had dealings at foorball with police in the area at the time would not be surprised if it was true. Imagine your daughter/brother/friend attended the game, with a ticket, got their early, sober and was killed in the crush you have spent years truying to get the truth and when the story starts to come out people start saying the fans were to blame. Not really justice is it ?
September 13, 201213 yr So if you live in a house your house gets robbed is that your fault ? Or do you blame the burgalers ? The fact is that a small minority of fans may have contributed ot the events on the day the vast majority did nt but people just use the catch all term of 'fans'. It may not seem important but fans died on the day and then saying fans are to blame is saying the ones who died are culpable. There were reports at the time of loads of Liverpool coaches being stopped by the police on the way down and this why people were late turning up, not sure how much truth in those stories but anyone who had dealings at foorball with police in the area at the time would not be surprised if it was true. Imagine your daughter/brother/friend attended the game, with a ticket, got their early, sober and was killed in the crush you have spent years truying to get the truth and when the story starts to come out people start saying the fans were to blame. Not really justice is it ? Way too much common sense & logic there Ani. I'd find another forum mate.
September 13, 201213 yr So if you live in a house your house gets robbed is that your fault ? Or do you blame the burgalers ? The fact is that a small minority of fans may have contributed ot the events on the day the vast majority did nt but people just use the catch all term of 'fans'. It may not seem important but fans died on the day and then saying fans are to blame is saying the ones who died are culpable. There were reports at the time of loads of Liverpool coaches being stopped by the police on the way down and this why people were late turning up, not sure how much truth in those stories but anyone who had dealings at foorball with police in the area at the time would not be surprised if it was true. Imagine your daughter/brother/friend attended the game, with a ticket, got their early, sober and was killed in the crush you have spent years truying to get the truth and when the story starts to come out people start saying the fans were to blame. Not really justice is it ? im pretty certain that anyone using the term fans, is not counting every single once of them id have thought it was a given that the comment is directed to a section of fans. we have all been in crowds and footy and concerts, there are always dickeds pushing and shoving. ALWAYS. and i am not having that this did not happen on this awful day. is push and shoving part and parcel? probably. is it excusable? not in my book. Edited September 13, 201213 yr by HomerJay
September 13, 201213 yr I'm not sure how to phrase it other than saying fans, no one is blaming the victims or detracting from their right to know what happened. But to completely deny the possibility that even a few people "sneeked in", you aren't even allowed to mention it. They are in denial. One cover up followed by another.
September 13, 201213 yr After reading this thread in full, a few posters have defo got egg all over their face! "But some of those fans are to blame" blah blah blah.Grow up and admit you got it wrong FFS! Dont people not realise we had a similar disaster of our own at Burnden Park.Was that the fans fault as well? For the record, yes, I have no doubt that the crush at Burnden . . . and similar occurences throughout the world, are caused by more folk attending than can possibly fit into the area designated. Look at the parralels; Both games were cup-matches, both in the latter stages of the competition, both were all-ticket games (and therefore, presumably, only had enough tickets printed to satisfy the capacity of the ground not the number of fans hopeful of getting a view of the game. That more turned up for the games makes policing harder. Everyone knows how many folk will be in attendance with tickets, nobody knows how many would turn up without tickets. Many witness statements at the time of the Burnden disaster said that turnstiles were slower than usual and so folk with tickets started to climb walls to by-pass the turnstiles. Maybe ticketless fans saw this and did likewise. Nobody denies that having more people in an area than the area can handle will cause a crush. Nobody in bolton denies that folk got into the Embankment area without tickets. EVERYONE IN LIVERPOOL DENIES THAT THEIR FANS DID THE VERY SAME!
September 13, 201213 yr I was unaware the Burnden game was all ticket. My Grandad went, after his aforementioned stay in Japan, but he didn't mention this. The difference is you could realistically bob down to Bolton and sneak a view, from the Embankment maybe.
September 13, 201213 yr Nobodies saying the fans that died are to blame! So if there was no police or stewards there at all on the day and the same thing happened who would be to blame? extreme example I know but just making the point that the police can't be responsible for the actions of some individuals. Nobodies saying the police acted well during or after the event but has society declined so much that we now have no individual responsibility for our own actions? I don't think the findings state anything new. We knew the emergency services couldn't cope. We new there was a cover up. That will be dealt with but to lay the responsibility of the deaths solely on the police is wrong.
September 13, 201213 yr I was unaware the Burnden game was all ticket. My Grandad went, after his aforementioned stay in Japan, but he didn't mention this. The difference is you could realistically bob down to Bolton and sneak a view, from the Embankment maybe. Burnden also happened in 1946, maybe lessons should have been learned by the time of Hillsborough
September 13, 201213 yr Burnden also happened in 1946, maybe lessons should have been learned by the time of Hillsborough And even Ibrox inbetween
September 13, 201213 yr Before anyone else comments on this you really should read the report. The criminal neglience of the club, the police, the city council and the FA in allowing a semi final to be played there is staggering. They all knew: 1) It was a death trap, an accident waiting to happen - it had no safety certificate 2) serious injuries had occured before 2) SWFC were not prepared to spend sufficient money to make it safe 3) SYP and SWFC wouldn't even agree who was responsible for crowd safety The SYP police had prevented deaths in previous years by blocking off the entrance to tunnel to the central pens, but this was not reported or briefed. What happened on the day could have happened to any supporters who were allocated the Lepping Lane end. The SYP lost control on the day and then covered it up, the way they treated the families and dead on the evening of the disaster beggars belief.
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