And had a simialr tragedy happened at one of our games under those circumstances, we'd also have to shoulder some of the blame.

 

Cut out all your pitiful bollocks about "not being part of the clique" : this has fuck all to do with that.

 

A simple yes or no reply will suffice to this question:

 

Do you honestly think that every Liverpool fan at that game that day is blame-free?

 

 

As you were there, Traf and you are the only objective witness that I know, I think it would be daft not to take on board your perspective.

So, who's to blame?

 

 

South Yorkshire Police

 

West Yorkshire Chief of police

 

South Yorkshire Ambulance

 

Sheffield Wednesday (in Yorkshire)

 

 

Bit of a theme

 

Hillsborough, Shit ground , bad policing, liverpool

 

 

Heysel , Shit ground, bad policing, liverpool

 

 

I also see a theme

Now Im not much liked by the clique on this site, but I have to say a lot here cant seem to let go of their anti scouse feelings on this issue.

 

Ive followed bolton since 1971 and in that time I along with hundreds and sometimes over 1000 fellow fans did what a lot of posters here are complaining that scousers did that day. Namely:

 

1. turning up at matches late and worse for drink

2. being in large mobs that charged and fought opposing ones on terraces.

3. blagged my way into packed stadia with many more bolton - Newcastle away 76 (gallogate end was frighteningly crushed) replay for same tie at elland rd, derby away league cup QF 1977)

4. have been in crushing crowds pushing to get to turnstiles

 

Now that was what happened at lots of games in the 70's and 80s. FACT. But they wasnt the reasons the 96 died that day.

 

So to read on here some sanctimonious bollocks by saintly bolton posters suggesting that scousers doing that contributed and have blood on their hands makes me shake my head and think fuck me, oh but for the grace of god.

 

Best post on here by a country mile especially the sanctimonious line , we were only saying the same thing at work today. As any lads in their mid-late 40's who followed the Whites away in the 80's know only too well.

I was at the 84 cup final and the charity shield the following season in the Everton end on both occasions, you aint seen nottin like it either.

 

 

Hillsborough, Shit ground , bad policing, liverpool

 

 

Heysel , Shit ground, bad policing, liverpool

 

 

I also see a theme

Also they forced themselves into the champions league final in Athens and stole tickets off fellow fans

ooh radcliffe keeping that incident quiet would have been the better option.

 

Do you honestly think that every Liverpool fan at that game that day is blame-free?

 

No mr traf, if they were followers of a club with a more benign following such as norwich they may not have been pushing forward, but if it were bwfc, city, newcastle, everton or utd, given the decisions made that day it probably would have happened as it nearly did in 81 (Spurs v Wolves and 73 Sunderland v Arsenal) when it was the same but people spilled out onto the pitch ( no barriers) and were treated for crush injuries.

 

but carry blaming scousers, dont let me interupt your hang up.

 

 

No mr traf, if they were followers of a club with a more benign following such as norwich they may not have been pushing forward, but if it were bwfc, city, newcastle, everton or utd, given the decisions made that day it probably would have happened as it nearly did in 81 (Spurs v Wolves and 73 Sunderland v Arsenal) when it was the same but people spilled out onto the pitch ( no barriers) and were treated for crush injuries.

 

but carry blaming scousers, dont let me interupt your hang up.

 

oK I will ask one question from you, who at the back was doing all the pushing ?

ooh radcliffe keeping that incident quiet would have been the better option.

Just saying the pattern continues on

as a very good friend can confirm first hand.

he was annoyed and amazed considering what had happened in april 89

 

 

oK I will ask one question from you, who at the back was doing all the pushing ?

 

Take it you never followed bwfc at large games in the 70s and 80s then?

 

get real that sort of congestion and pushing happened at many a game when fans were herded like cattle, treated as animals and behaved as animals.

 

Just dont come on as if it were only scousers who did that sort of thing!

Are certain folk reading one thing and actually seeing another???

 

 

Hillsborough, Shit ground , bad policing, liverpool

 

 

Heysel , Shit ground, bad policing, liverpool

 

 

I also see a theme

What was the policing like at Walsall?

I admire the fact that the victims families have not given up on pursuing the truth about police lies, inadequate planning for such a big match, appalling condition of the ground and an appalling response to a tragic situation. They were right to do it and I'm glad the truth has been uncovered.

 

What I have a problem with is that the collective scouse nation have completely exonerated themselves from contributing in any way to what happened. It's like saying heysel was caused because there wasn't any segregation.

 

And i would feel the same if any club from any city in the country reacted in the same way.

 

 

Take it you never followed bwfc at large games in the 70s and 80s then?

 

get real that sort of congestion and pushing happened at many a game when fans were herded like cattle, treated as animals and behaved as animals.

 

Just dont come on as if it were only scousers who did that sort of thing!

 

think folk agree with that bit

 

but some folk are saying fans of Bolton or AN Other would admit it

I admire the fact that the victims families have not given up on pursuing the truth about police lies, inadequate planning for such a big match, appalling condition of the ground and an appalling response to a tragic situation. They were right to do it and I'm glad the truth has been uncovered.

 

What I have a problem with is that the collective scouse nation have completely exonerated themselves from contributing in any way to what happened. It's like saying heysel was caused because there wasn't any segregation.

 

And i would feel the same if any club from any city in the country reacted in the same way.

 

You cant use Heysel, convictioons were made, and Justice was served.

mods...

 

any chance of merging the two threads on this subject.

 

tell me to fuck off if you want mind.

 

I wonder how many people would blame the fans if they werent scousers ?

 

Take it you never followed bwfc at large games in the 70s and 80s then?

 

get real that sort of congestion and pushing happened at many a game when fans were herded like cattle, treated as animals and behaved as animals.

 

Just dont come on as if it were only scousers who did that sort of thing!

 

I did follow Bolton in those times, and yes I know what went on (Blackpool boxing day, first train leave I dont think anyone paid, all those paying got the 2nd train), but also if Wanderers fan had been killed in that situtaion I would be blaming Bolton Fans and who ever else was in charge, now we have everyone being blamed except one party

for me the team has bugger all to do with it.

 

They were the best team to watch as a kid in the top flight when Bolton were in Div 3

Whats come out of this report will lead to convictions and justice, 23 years too late. I'm just using that to say you can't exclude the crowd element when you are looking at the causes of a disaster.

I admire the fact that the victims families have not given up on pursuing the truth about police lies, inadequate planning for such a big match, appalling condition of the ground and an appalling response to a tragic situation. They were right to do it and I'm glad the truth has been uncovered.

 

What I have a problem with is that the collective scouse nation have completely exonerated themselves from contributing in any way to what happened. It's like saying heysel was caused because there wasn't any segregation.

 

And i would feel the same if any club from any city in the country reacted in the same way.

 

Yep.

mods...

 

any chance of merging the two threads on this subject.

 

tell me to fuck off if you want mind.

 

Good shout been on the other thread did not know one was already open

Whats come out of this report will lead to convictions and justice, 23 years too late. I'm just using that to say you can't exclude the crowd element when you are looking at the causes of a disaster.

 

You cant, its cause and effect .. in many disaster equires it come to light that many off the same things have happend in the past but not all togther so therfore no disaster, you need all the things to come togther at once and at Hillsborough they did.

 

 

Yep.

So how in your opinion are the scousers to blame then. Let's have some FACTS then as to how they contributed to the Hillsbrough disaster.

Whats come out of this report will lead to convictions and justice, 23 years too late. I'm just using that to say you can't exclude the crowd element when you are looking at the causes of a disaster.

 

The crowd killed themselves was the verdict the Burnden disaster