Youri McAnespie Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I've nowt against swimming per ce. I just find races where you're not allowed to go as fast as you can (i.e. walking, any swimming which isn't front crawl) a bit contrived. The same bloke winning 7 golds for basically the same overall skill seems very biased to me when they're no more dominant than other athletes limited to 1, 2 or 3 events by much more realistic event setting. Which is a view I'd accept (well, I still do, I just think you're wrong) if you weren't a cycling aficionado - which is arguably the king of contrived disciplines/events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maaarsh Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Which is a view I'd accept (well, I still do, I just think you're wrong) if you weren't a cycling aficionado - which is arguably the king of contrived disciplines/events. Â Please explain. I'm not a track cycling fan, which is primarily weight lifting in the sprinting events rather than cycling. Â Road racing is just A to B, quickest wins. There's no cycling backwards or wheelies only legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYW Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Swimming is one of the few sports that needs f*ck all in the way of kit, could help save, rather than endanger the life of yourself (and others), can be done buy folk from cradle (almost) grave  It should have had more lottery funding after the last Olympics. Basing the award on the poor performances of the swimmers at the last Olympics seems a bit short sighted to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Plus, if swimming was 'go the fastest you possibly can' only type sport, it wouldn't be much good for the spectator - certainly on short course events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014  Road racing is just A to B, quickest wins.  Isn't it usually who has the best drugs that wins (naturally these do help you get from A to B quickest) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maaarsh Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Isn't it usually who has the best drugs that wins (naturally these do help you get from A to B quickest)Â Â We've done this a few times, but suffice to say, nowadays cycling is one of the cleanest sports going, by virtue of having by a very long way the toughest testing regime. If you want to watch a drug fueled farce, watch tennis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Please explain. I'm not a track cycling fan, which is primarily weight lifting in the sprinting events rather than cycling. Â Road racing is just A to B, quickest wins. There's no cycling backwards or wheelies only legs. I was referring to track cycling, although road racing does lend itself to disciplines of a kind - hill climbing, descending, sprinting etc. I don't know much about cycling and wasn't running it down either, just pointing out to the eye of the untrained most sport looks convoluted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYW Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I just can't work up any enthusiasm for these games, a bit toy town and second rate me thinks. I like track and field so I'll hang on for the European championships in August. Â I don't think the distance runners would agree. The Commonwealth Games are generally recognised to be stronger than the European Championships because of the African participants. Not to mention the 800m where David Rudisha is competing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYW Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 The same bloke winning 7 golds for basically the same overall skill seems very biased to me  That's a bit like saying that the 100m sprint requires essentially the same track skills as the 100m hurdles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maaarsh Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 That's a bit like saying that the 100m sprint requires essentially the same track skills as the 100m hurdles. Â In practice, most swimmers are capable of multiple strokes at a very high level - they require the same physical skills. In practice, 100m runners and 110m hurdlers do not cross over events because they require different skills. In any case, they're allowed to get to the finish line as quick as they possibly can, however they see fit as long as they stay in line. In most swimming events you would be disqualified for going as quick as you could. There is not a real parallel. Although I would be in favour of the comedy value of hurdles (possibly under water) which need to be navigated in a new swimming event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 It should have had more lottery funding after the last Olympics. Basing the award on the poor performances of the swimmers at the last Olympics seems a bit short sighted to me. I'm not sure, but I think they cut funding to elite level participants rather than across the board - I agree though, this is a bit daft. Â The winning against all else that seems to be creeping into certain sports, seems a bit, erm, creepy, for want of a better term - I'm referring to the eugenics-esque singling out of certain body types for certain sports in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex_midlandwhite Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 The number of varieties in the track cycling is quite confusing, the cyclists seem to have a fair few events to enter and medals to win. I really must try to understand all the different techniques and tactics as I am sure it must be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Carlos Posted July 25, 2014 Moderators Share Posted July 25, 2014 In practice, most swimmers are capable of multiple strokes at a very high level - they require the same physical skills. That isn't what Thorpedo said last night. Depends what you call a high standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYW Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 In practice, most swimmers are capable of multiple strokes at a very high level - they require the same physical skills. In practice, 100m runners and 110m hurdlers do not cross over events because they require different skills. In any case, they're allowed to get to the finish line as quick as they possibly can, however they see fit as long as they stay in line. Â I'm not sure how butterfly requires the same physical skills as backstroke, they use completely different techniques. Â Some swimmers are quicker through the water doing one stroke rather than another, so i'm not sure how the argument about one stroke being the fastest for all is relevant either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmW Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 It should have had more lottery funding after the last Olympics. Basing the award on the poor performances of the swimmers at the last Olympics seems a bit short sighted to me. Â It's the fixation with Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) which leads to basing funding far too much on medal results. I'm no fan of swimming, but I regard it as a core sport which deserves a reasonable sustained level of funding. Â In athletics this year they have been set a target based on medals at the Commonwealth and Europeans combined, so every year has a target. The late absence of Farah and KJT has possibly cost 3 medals anyway. Â Given that drug test results can lead to medals being stripped, or performers upgraded to medal status, in following years, the system need to be re-assessed anyway. Â After London 2012 it was inevitable that Handball, which has zero profile in UK, would be dropped, but cutting Basketball was short-sighted both from potential and consideration of 'diversity'. Rowing, which is distinctly not diverse, but limited largely to major schools on major rivers, continues to thrive on increasing results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maaarsh Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I'm not sure how butterfly requires the same physical skills as backstroke, they use completely different techniques. Â Some swimmers are quicker through the water doing one stroke rather than another, so i'm not sure how the argument about one stroke being the fastest for all is relevant either. Â You honestly can't see the relevance? Â In a running race, they set the distance, and the winner is the quickest one to cover it. Â In Swimming, if they did the same, every single swimmer would do 'free style' (clue's in the name) but instead they multiply the number of medals awarded by specifying extra races where you are not allowed to swim in the most efficient way. The only difference between this and having a full set of 100, 200, 400, 800m races for backwards running and hopping is tradition. They are contrived events rather than tests of a 'natural' challenge where any technique can be employed to cover the distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYW Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I'm not sure, but I think they cut funding to elite level participants rather than across the board - I agree though, this is a bit daft. Â But cutting elite level funding, in turn reduces the chances of anyone who is any good at the sport, getting the coaching needed to turn ability into medals and therefore we end up with even fewer medals and even less funding. Â Malcolm makes a good point about rowing. Pouring money into a sport which most people don't even have access to, seems to be more about medals than general participation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmW Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 That's a bit like saying that the 100m sprint requires essentially the same track skills as the 100m hurdles.  Of course very few sprinters can hurdle well, but all top high hurdlers have to be able to sprint well. Many hurdlers have featured in relay squads, but the best of all was  For London 1948 the fastest hurdler of the year, Harrison Dillard, fell in the American Trials (which are an absolute first 3 selected, provided they have the entry standard) for the 110m hurdles, so also ran the flat 100m. He qualified in third place and went on win the Olympic title. In 1952 he won the 110mH.  [Why are the American Trials so cut-throat? 1 - they have talent to spare, so if someone is unlucky another will step up, 2 - selectors from LA, Houston, NY and Chicago will never agree on anything, as each supports his own locality.]  Which singer passed up a place at the 1956 US Olympic Trials High Jump (having finished fourth in the National Collegiate AA), in order to fulfil a first recording audition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no balls Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I'm not sure how butterfly requires the same physical skills as backstroke, they use completely different techniques. Â Some swimmers are quicker through the water doing one stroke rather than another, so i'm not sure how the argument about one stroke being the fastest for all is relevant either. I used to swim at a decent standard and yes, you are correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Carlos Posted July 25, 2014 Moderators Share Posted July 25, 2014 I used to swim at a decent standard and yes, you are correct With the dolphins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffs Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Are they doing any pub games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules_darby Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Is this like the Sherpa Van then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydee Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I ain't seen any of the games! Â The number of varieties in the track cycling is quite confusing, the cyclists seem to have a fair few events to enter and medals to win. I really must try to understand all the different techniques and tactics as I am sure it must be interesting. Â I didn't understand track, and to some extent still don't, until my nephew started competing. Â After he explained the different tactics and skills involved I can get quite into it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmW Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I ain't seen any of the games! Â Â I didn't understand track, and to some extent still don't, until my nephew started competing. Â After he explained the different tactics and skills involved I can get quite into it now. Â Jason Kenny was struggling yesterday, but he blitzed a top Aussie in the sprint QFs this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex_midlandwhite Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Jason Kenny was struggling yesterday, but he blitzed a top Aussie in the sprint QFs this morning. And he seemed to do it two different ways which was intriguing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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